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INTHEAIRCOP
06-07-2010, 10:51 PM
I did some research and was surprised to read that the coast guard are given law enforcement authority. Also that they can carry their issued weapons off base.

So my question is the following:

1) If pulled over how do you prove to the police officer that you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon? When I was a MP in the Army I was not issued any creds or a badge.

2) Can you actually make arrests for felonies of civilians while off duty?

3) Are you issued creds and a badge to carry off duty?

4) Do you actually attend a federal law enforcement academy (FLETC)?

5) Do any of the states consider the coast guard law enforcement status for the reason of being approved to bypass a local police academy and get police certification? (In Florida MPs in the military can bypass the 26 week police academy and just do the 3 week crossover class)

I read the title in the Federal code and it reads that the Coast Guard is given full federal law enforcement authority. Just want some feed back from the Coast Guard guys.

?uesto
06-07-2010, 11:50 PM
I'm not in the Coast Guard, but I've been doing tons of research lately. I'm not gonna go into too much detail because I may have misinterpreted things or just not been given the best information, but from what I've read, it's completely dependent on your job in the Coast Guard.

Like, I doubt a Machinery Technician or a Food Specialist can make make arrests, but I'm sure Maritime Enforcement guys or Port Security Agents can.

GreenLine
06-08-2010, 07:26 AM
I did some research and was surprised to read that the coast guard are given law enforcement authority

I believe that authority is given to the agency, as a whole - not necessarily to each individual member. The agency then dictates which personnel may exercise that authority. And I think only CGIS has the authority to do all that's listed in your post.

I am not in the CG, either, but this is how it works with many other agencies: a blanket authority may exist, but it's at the discretion of the agency regarding who may exercise it.

statebear
06-08-2010, 10:50 AM
Not this again.....

Did we forget what happened the last time we started a "CG authority" thread.....:eek:

fstein138
06-08-2010, 12:00 PM
2) Can you actually make arrests for felonies of civilians while off duty?


Here in CA anyone one can make an arrest for a felony.

Cop, soldier, cook, janitor, or dog walker.

-A-
06-08-2010, 12:21 PM
I did some research and was surprised to read that the coast guard are given law enforcement authority. Also that they can carry their issued weapons off base.

So my question is the following:

1) If pulled over how do you prove to the police officer that you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon? When I was a MP in the Army I was not issued any creds or a badge.

CGIS could show there badge and creds just like any other police officer would.

2) Can you actually make arrests for felonies of civilians while off duty?

Only CGIS agents can.

3) Are you issued creds and a badge to carry off duty?

Everyone in the Coast Guard is issued a military ID but only CGIS agents are issued "badges".

4) Do you actually attend a federal law enforcement academy (FLETC)?

Only CGIS agents do....

5) Do any of the states consider the coast guard law enforcement status for the reason of being approved to bypass a local police academy and get police certification? (In Florida MPs in the military can bypass the 26 week police academy and just do the 3 week crossover class)

I read the title in the Federal code and it reads that the Coast Guard is given full federal law enforcement authority. Just want some feed back from the Coast Guard guys.

Each Academy can make there own requirments to pass. So weather or not the accept your prier training is all up to them.

elko
06-08-2010, 12:26 PM
That's not quite true. Dog handlers bring their dogs home. In government owned vehicles. But not their weapons. Coasties assigned as Special Agents with the Coast Guard Investigations are allowed to retain their assigned weapons 24/7.

-A-
06-08-2010, 02:16 PM
That's not quite true. Dog handlers bring their dogs home. In government owned vehicles. But not their weapons. Coasties assigned as Special Agents with the Coast Guard Investigations are allowed to retain their assigned weapons 24/7.

Were you referring to my post?
I did type when I first woke up so....

GreenLine
06-08-2010, 03:11 PM
I'm not sure he meant to equate "dog walker" with "canine officer."

New Hampshirite
06-09-2010, 02:36 PM
LE authority is given to all Petty Officers and Officers, basically E-4 and above. However, Coast Guard policy requires that members must be trained and qualified as Boarding Officers before conducting law enforcement.

All ratings can conduct law enforcement, if qualified, and I know of at least one cutter where the primary Boarding Officer was a Food Service Specialist. Many Machinery Technicians conduct LE on a regular basis.

Coast Guard members do not have LE authority ashore, do not carry issued weapons off-duty, and are not issued badges. Many Boarding Officers will attend the Coast Guard Maritime Law Enforcement Academy which is located at FLETC Charleston.

That's how it works for the general maritime law enforcement. Things are somewhat different for personnel assigned to CG Police Departments and CGIS is altogether different.

INTHEAIRCOP
06-09-2010, 05:18 PM
le authority is given to all petty officers and officers, basically e-4 and above. However, coast guard policy requires that members must be trained and qualified as boarding officers before conducting law enforcement.

All ratings can conduct law enforcement, if qualified, and i know of at least one cutter where the primary boarding officer was a food service specialist. Many machinery technicians conduct le on a regular basis.

Coast guard members do not have le authority ashore, do not carry issued weapons off-duty, and are not issued badges. Many boarding officers will attend the coast guard maritime law enforcement academy which is located at fletc charleston.

That's how it works for the general maritime law enforcement. Things are somewhat different for personnel assigned to cg police departments and cgis is altogether different.


thanks!

guardianagent
06-09-2010, 08:09 PM
Ok, you've gotten a few totally incorrect answers and a few really close answers.

All Coast Guard Petty, Warrant and Commissioned Officers are Federal Law Enforcement Officers. They receive their law enforcement authority through 14 USC 89a. The authority is not granted to the Coast Guard as an agency, but to the individual officer.

Through Coast Guard policy and the UCMJ, the Coast Guard restricts the ability of its personnel to exercise their law enforcement authority to only those that are qualified as Boarding Officers. Although the qualification system for Boarding Officers left much to be desired in the past, over the last 10 years a lot has changed. Now, the only way to be qualified as a Boarding Officer is to attend the Basic Boarding Officer Course at FLETC Charleston. This is a fully accredited FLETC course that is very similar to the UTPT program at FLETC. The only major differences is the CG program does not teach firearms (that is taught at the unit level), vehicle operations (we don't use cars that much), and our defensive tactics are different.

The Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2004, gave Coast Guard Boarding Officers authority & jurisdiction ashore as well. The A&J though is limited to a maritime "Nexus". It specifically authorizes CG Boarding Officers to carry firearms and make arrests ashore. We conduct law enforcement operations every day ashore with our Port Security mission. Boarding Officers that are required to operate vehicles are required to take specific training for emergency vehicle operations.

Many states recognize CG Boarding Officers as state peace officers and will treat former boarding officers looking for employment as civilian police officers the same way they treat police officers that had been trained in a different state.

To date, the CG has not put out a policy on off-duty concealed carry. Several Guardians have had concealed carry chargers dropped by the Courts now due to LEOSA. The CG has not put out official policy on LEOSA.

CG Boarding Officers are not issued badges or creds (the idea is that the small boat or cutter effectively identifies us) however, I would not be surprised if CG Boarding Officers are issued creds in the next 5 years.

Boarding Officers are not individually issued weapons they are checked out from the armory as needed.

Oh, and the CG was not "GIVEN" LE law enforcement authority. The CG has had law enforcement authority since 1789.

New Hampshirite
06-10-2010, 12:25 AM
guardianagent,

Thanks for the clarification about jurisdiction ashore and BO training. I remember hearing that those where in the works but didn't realize that they were already in effect. Glad to hear it!

GreenLine
06-10-2010, 09:43 AM
All Coast Guard Petty, Warrant and Commissioned Officers are Federal Law Enforcement Officers.

This may be technically true, but "technically" and "in practical use" are two different animals, i.e. if you're a CG member who has nothing to do with LE and you start telling people that you're a "Federal Law Enforcement Officer," that'll be a bit of a stretch. I think this statement is true in as much as the oft-used statement that "FBI agents can enforce ANY law" is true: they CAN, but they don't.


Oh, and the CG was not "GIVEN" LE law enforcement authority. The CG has had law enforcement authority since 1789.

Then it was "given" at one point.

guardianagent
06-10-2010, 10:00 AM
This may be technically true, but "technically" and "in practical use" are two different animals, i.e. if you're a CG member who has nothing to do with LE and you start telling people that you're a "Federal Law Enforcement Officer," that'll be a bit of a stretch. I think this statement is true in as much as the oft-used statement that "FBI agents can enforce ANY law" is true: they CAN, but they don't.



Then it was "given" at one point.

Its either true or its not...

Fugitive Hunter
06-10-2010, 02:14 PM
A Btm and a BO can pursue a subject ashore only if the BO has a BTM with him, they can keep site of the subject, and cannot pursue in vehicle ashores or enter private dwellings or residences searching for the subject. 14USC2 states the Coast Guard shall enforce all applicable Federal law on and under the high seas and waters which are subject of US Jurisdiction. There is no statue about making felony arrests on shore or off duty only when enforcing laws upon the high seas does the CG retain LE authority. I am a BO in the USCGR in case your wondering currently on Title 10 active duty at an LE Unit

guardianagent
06-10-2010, 05:38 PM
A Btm and a BO can pursue a subject ashore only if the BO has a BTM with him, they can keep site of the subject, and cannot pursue in vehicle ashores or enter private dwellings or residences searching for the subject. 14USC2 states the Coast Guard shall enforce all applicable Federal law on and under the high seas and waters which are subject of US Jurisdiction. There is no statue about making felony arrests on shore or off duty only when enforcing laws upon the high seas does the CG retain LE authority. I am a BO in the USCGR in case your wondering currently on Title 10 active duty at an LE Unit

And you are incorrect. 46 UCS 70117 specifically authorizes Coast Guard Boarding Officers to conduct Law Enforcement Ashore. Ask around your "LE UNIT", its called BO Ashore in the Coast Guard.

GreenLine
06-10-2010, 07:12 PM
Its either true or its not...

Try that when you're a 20-year-old SK with no LE training or experience, are unarmed, and find yourself at the scene of an incident needing the attention of any kind of emergency services: "relax everyone, I'm a Federal Law Enforcement Officer..."

Trying to live your life by a black and white standard like "it's either true or it's not" doesn't work. Anyone who actually enforces the law for a living should know that.


Several Guardians have had concealed carry chargers dropped by the Courts now due to LEOSA.

"Several?" Or are you simply referring to the one "Federal Law Enforcement Officer" who was caught driving with a suspended DL and LYING to law enforcement officers about the unlicensed weapon concealed in his car? One incident in one state (and one lucky SOB, IMO) is hardly an accurate measuring stick for the application of the LEOSA to an entire agency nationwide.

guardianagent
06-10-2010, 07:43 PM
I believe you're referring to the Booth case. That was one of a few I was thinking of.

I agree with you that Booth got lucky, but look at it from the other side, with all of that going against him the Judge still ruled LEOSA applied.

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding your hypothetical situation. I'm just saying the SK would not be lying. He's still an idiot (in your situation).

Fugitive Hunter
06-10-2010, 08:21 PM
guardianagent, BO's can conduct LE ashore for the purpose of waterfront facilities, inspections, marinas etc, this does not mean they can make felony arrests thirty miles away from shore or make traffic stops etc. The Coast Guard Investigative Service being 1811's can, but BO's cant. Actually the moment the BTM and BO get seperated in a pursuit ashore or they loose sight of the subject the pursuit is too be terminated. Thats in the MLEM. I highly doubt BO's will be given badge, credentials. off duty carry etc because of their limited status. They are not recognized as peace officers or federal agents under HR218 because of their limited authority. Once they are off the water or away from a waterfront or Coast Guard Facility their LE power ceases.

guardianagent
06-11-2010, 08:55 AM
guardianagent, BO's can conduct LE ashore for the purpose of waterfront facilities, inspections, marinas etc,

This is close to what the MLEM and 46 USC 70117 state, but what you have stated is not a complete desctription of where and why.


this does not mean they can make felony arrests thirty miles away from shore or make traffic stops etc.

No one said they could. What does this have to do with anything regarding Boarding Officers being able to enforce Federal Law?


The Coast Guard Investigative Service being 1811's can, but BO's cant.

What CGIS Special Agents are authorized to do is determined primarily by 14 USC 95. 1811 is a civilian job series code. It enfers absolutely no powers of law enforcement authority. By your logic the Active Duty Petty Officers and Warrant Officers that are assigned to CGIS as Special Agents could not be able to due their job because they are not 1811's.


Actually the moment the BTM and BO get seperated in a pursuit ashore or they loose sight of the subject the pursuit is too be terminated. Thats in the MLEM.

You're not describing Law Enforcement Ashore, you're describing Hot Pursuit. Two completely different things. Also the rule of 2 (must always have 2 BO/BTM's) is CG Policy not law. If a Boarding Officer was to get seperated for whatever reason and still decide to continue pursuit that would not affect what the Boarding Officer was legally capable of enforceing (assuming the Pursuit was continues). The BO may have to answer to his Command, but it's not going to hurt the case at all.


I highly doubt BO's will be given badge, credentials. off duty carry etc because of their limited status.

You're opinion regarding badges, creds, off duty carry. You may be right. All I'm saying is seeing the way CG LE has chagned over the last 10 years and the direction DHS is moving, I would not be surpised if BO's received some sort of credential eventually.

Limited status??? What does that mean. A Boarding Officer's authority is no more limited or constricted than an FBI Agents or a CBP Officer. Their Jurisdiction is limited, but not their Authority...


They are not recognized as peace officers or federal agents under HR218 because of their limited authority. Once they are off the water or away from a waterfront or Coast Guard Facility their LE power ceases.

Show me in LEOSA where the word Peace Officer exists... And again you've mixed up Authority and Jurisdiction...

statebear
06-11-2010, 11:43 AM
Why are there people who have to make their jobs seem that they are more then what they really are?

I was an active duty Security Policeman in the AF for four years, was I a "Federal Law Enforcement Officer", those four years?:rolleyes:

People be proud of what you do, whatever that may be and please stop trying to be something your not.

Oh and by the way, when you have to constantly explain and justify to people that you have "authority", chances are really don't.....

Especially when even one your "own" is trying to show you the error of your ways....

Just saying....:cool:

Fugitive Hunter
06-11-2010, 04:07 PM
A BO's Authority is no where near what a Special Agent for the FBI has. A special agent for the FBI can arrest for a Federal Felony anywhere in the Country 24/7 and on the high seas, cruise ship incidents etc and can carry off duty anywhere 24/7 and even overseas in some cases. When I got finished conducting my LE Op this morning I turned in my weapon, ammo and pepper spray and as soon as I drove off the base that was the end of my authoriy and Jurisidiction as a BO.

I believe Customs Inspectors also carry off duty and on 24/7 and are recongnized as peace officers. Customs 1811 Series are recongized as Federal Agents and have the same powers of arrest and authority in most cases as the FBI agents.

I stated a BO cannot make felony arrests or make any kind of traffic stop to demonstrate their authority and jurisdiction, both which are limited. So combine the two and according to my civillan agency if I was to deal with the USCG their status would be construed as limited.

Guardinan I love the USCG dont get me wrong but their are way too many people out there trying to make USCG LE more then what it really is. I personally think our use of force, handcuffing and alot of other things are pretty jacked up compared to the civillan side.

Giving a 19 year old Boarding Officer off duty carry and LE credentials would be nothing but asking for trouble

Fugitive Hunter
06-11-2010, 04:21 PM
As for HR218, subsection C1 and D would prohibit Coasties from carrying off duty.

As for Section C1 our authority, jursidiction and arrest powers end the moment we are not at a waterfront facility or on and under the high seas.

As for Section D, Coasties are not issued Identifciation identifying themseleves as law enforcement officers.

If you put the legal mumbo jumbo together people who do both of these things are peace officers or Federal Agents.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

`(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926A the following:

`926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers.'.



SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following:

`Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

`(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

`(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

`(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

`(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

`(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

`(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

`(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

`(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

`(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

`(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

`(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is further amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926B the following:

`926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers.'.
































`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

`(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926A the following:

`926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers.'.



SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following:

`Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

`(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

`(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

`(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

`(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

`(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

`(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

`(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

`(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

`(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

`(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

`(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is further amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926B the following:

`926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers.'.

Gringe
06-11-2010, 06:45 PM
This is being made into too much of a big deal... The US Coast Guard has federal law enforcement authority under US Code. Of course, they are restricted by US Coast Guard Policy I'm sure. I can't speak, as I'm not a member of the USCG.

My creds from my agency allows me to carry under LEOSA. I don't think the USCG issues creds to BO's/BTM's.

With that said, I have the utmost respect for those guys and wouldn't sit here and question their authority. Just like I have the most jurisdiction in my county as a deputy, they have it in the waters as a BO/BTM.

Why rain on their parade? We all are on the same team in the end.

District B 13
06-13-2010, 06:02 PM
No agency accepts CG BO/BTM/"LE" training as a "bypass" for the academy. CG does not train in full LE (yes, I'm aware that some CGPDs send some guys to an academy, however that is an exception) as is covered in an academy. You would be an idiot to accept a CG member who did some LE as a full fledged, qualified, LEO.