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View Full Version : What's your Dept. policy on



David757
01-11-2003, 08:48 AM
what to do with a violator who has no proof of insurance? With a fairly large illegal immigrant community, I get this quite a lot. Also, I often stop vehicles with tags expired for 6 months or more (I had one that was almost three years expired not too long ago) all the time!
My personal policy is that if it's over a year expired and you can't provide proof of insurance, you're car is going to be impounded. Our department doesn't really address the issue.

shooter1201
01-11-2003, 09:22 AM
Per my agency's policies/ordinances, it's a $100 fine. Tennessee had NO laws governing this issue until last January. We didn't start enforcing it until last April.

Steve in PA
01-11-2003, 10:39 AM
Is the question.....what do you do if they don't have proof of insurance at the time you stop them??

In PA.....they have (5) days to provide proof of insurance.......provided they have insurance. If their insurance is cancelled or dropped the insurance companies inform PENN DOT (Pennsylvania Dept of Tranportation) and their license plate will be suspended. If that happens,....then its "sign here please".

Expired tags.........vehicle gets towed, and "sign here please".

dirtychops
01-11-2003, 11:28 AM
We allow 72 hours to provide proof of insurance. If it is an American and they fail to provide proof within three days their driving privileges are revoked for six months. If they are not American, say a German national working on base, they are denied driving privileges on base and we report them to German authorities.

Sig220Man
01-11-2003, 11:59 AM
16028(a) of the California Vehicle Code requires that every driver of a motor vehicle present valid proof of insurance at the scene of a collision, or upon demand by a peace officer if pulled over for another violation.

If they cannot provide proof of valid insurance, the most we can do is issue a citation. There is no "grace period", but if the violator can show in court that they indeed had a valid policy in effect at the time of the stop, most judges will dismiss the charge.

CA peace officers are not allowed to impound a motor vehicle for lack of insurance. We can impound though if the registration is over 6 months expired.

A few years ago the base fine for not having valid insurance was $500. Add to that the whopping 170% "Penalty Assessment" (basically a tax on traffic fines) and the actual fine was $1350 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Then all the liberals began complaining about how it unfairly targeted the poor, immigrants, etc., so the State Legislature lowered the fine considerably. Even before that happened some judges decided to lower, or even waive, the fine on their own.

Now I hear it's even better. Starting in 2007 drivers who reside in the County of Los Angeles, and the City and County of San Francisco, are NOT required to present proof of auto insurance at all :mad:

<small>[ 01-11-2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Sig220Man ]</small>

Evnings
01-11-2003, 12:32 PM
We write them a ticket, tell them if they have insurance to show it to the court by the court date and let them go on down the road.

We could arrest for No Insurance, but I sure don't want to get tied up booking a person in on a traffic offense unless its POP.

WesConn207
01-11-2003, 01:28 PM
Because of the liablity, here it's usually ticket the operator and tow the vehicle. Many times people simply register (2 yr reg) the vehicle using the 60 day temp ins card and never maintain a valid policy. DMV then suspends the reg.
IF NCIC shows Cancelled/Ins, there's a $50.00 bounty on the plates. The plates are seized and returned to the DMV.

Sec. 14-213 Failure of the operator to produce an insurance identification card as required by section 14-217 shall constitute prima facie evidence that the owner has not maintained the security required by section 38a-371 and this section.
(b) Any person convicted of violating any provision of subsection (a) of this section shall be fined not less than one hundred dollars nor more than one thousand dollars.

Sec. 14-217. Operator to give name and address and show or surrender license, registration and insurance identification card when requested.

David757
01-11-2003, 01:33 PM
Ok, let me clarify a little.
Lets say you stop them and they say, I'm sorry officer...I know I should have insurance...but I don't. Do you cite and release (which in KY is a $500 fine) or cite and tow the vehicle?
Another situation, they say they have insurance and present an expired card. You call the company and they say the policy is cancelled.
I'm also curious if anyone has ever let one go that was later involved in an accident. Were there any ramifications?

PiperMaru
01-11-2003, 01:57 PM
Here lately I've been seeing a bunch of NO OL and NO Insurance citations - of course when I see them, it means the person is in jail. :)

PeteBroccolo
01-11-2003, 01:58 PM
In Saskatchewan, you get basic insurance ($1M liability, theft, damage) along with your registration, which is renewable 12 months from first registration or last renewal or change.

Operate Unregistered Motor Vehicle is a $540 (Canadian) fine, and we usually will have the vehicle impounded until they can provide proof of re-registration.

Given the high fine, I am reluctant to issue such a ticket, but it depends on the situation. A lot of people are in the "D'oh!" category, ie: I stop them and it is less than a week since their validation tags expired. Sometimes I will just tell them to park the car and get new tags, or even write them for Fail To Display Current Validation Tags ($100 fine I believe).

If it is someone that I continually have contact with due to non-intelligent driving habits, then I am more than happy to call the next tow truck in the rotation!

dc298
01-11-2003, 02:21 PM
In Ontario the basic insurance is as Peter has mentioned $1M liability licence plates are renewable yearly on the registered owners birthdate..If driver doesnt have insurance slip its a $70 fine (no time to produce..either you have it or yu dont)(for you guys that investigate TA's dont you just Hate having to wait for the info before doing the report..) if plate is expired...$110.. IF your vehicle is UNINSURED...that will be a $5000. fine for the first conviction,,it doubles every time thereafter..I really have no tolerance here,, I am required to have it. and I am required to be licenced...If not I can be charged at work under the police act for discredable conduct...If I have to, They have to...Re. the insurance..if you get hit and injured by an uninsured driver...your insurance pays to help you, but next year on the renewal date. they begin the charge back system...sooner or later they get their monney..from someone---U! So why go easy on it..

David757
01-11-2003, 02:28 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dc298:
<strong> diligaf </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shouldn't that be dilligaf? :D <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> :D

Sgt Lobster
01-11-2003, 04:28 PM
In the UK there is no requirement at all to carry any driving documents with you. That said you do not need any reason to stop a driver and require them to produce their driving licence, insurance and if the car is more than 3 years old their test certificate.

If they cannot produce their documents then they commit an offence there and then. However you have to give them a form requiring them to produce their documents within 7 clear days, commencing at midnight on the date of issue, at a police station of their choice. If they produce that is the end of the matter. If they don't you have to submit a prosecution file and the driver gets summonsed to court.

Most but not all insurance companies provide details of insured drivers to the police, which can be checked on the national computer which can help.

If you believe a driver is giving false details then you can arrest them. The only way you could have their car towed would be if you believed it was stolen or was evidence in relation to another offence or it was seriously un-roadworthy. So the fact is we have thousands of people driving on our roads without a licence or other documentation.

Lobster.

InSane1
01-11-2003, 04:45 PM
IF you have a little extra time on your hands call the insurance company that they say they are covered by.

Our officers carry a list of 1-800 numbers to insurance companies and call them from the squad phones or have me call.

"Hi this is Gina from O.com PD, I'm calling to verify insurance on a vehicle before I release it." They are usually helpful.

If people can't provide proof, ask what company, if they don't know, then I am sorta sarcastic, "So, you pay your bill every month?" They say yeah, and I ask how long they have had insurance on the vehicle. Normally its a long period of time. Then I start getting bitchy, "And you don't know what company you write the check to?" :rolleyes:

Then I keep their car. teeheehee

dc298
01-11-2003, 05:45 PM
The drivers are required to have the documents in the car whenever its on the highway and must produce them on demand of a police officer..We do not need a reason(an offence committed) in order to stop a vehicle. The law states the driver must produce dr lic permit and insurance on demand..We can stop just to check and see the documents..That doesnt happen that much, but its legal.. Apparently the minstry is going to be interfacing with an insurance webbase and all the insurance information will be available online and updated every day..
Yes, it should read dilligaf, I think I need to have my eyeballs cleaned..

WesConn207
01-11-2003, 06:14 PM
Of the documents I've seem it appears Mass. has a good format. The insurance information is printed right on the registration. IMO, this would make it a little bit harder to counterfeit on the "home" computer/scanner as is being done with the normally issued insurance cards.

Greg530
01-11-2003, 06:59 PM
I'm in Ontario too and the Drive No Insurance thing is a pretty big deal here now.

It used to be a $500 fine but that was of course less than buying insurance so there was a certain segment of society that just took their chances on getting stopped by us.

To combat that they upped the fines to a minimum of $5000 for 1st offence and like dc298 said, it doubles for each subsequent conviction.

I just had a guy in court recently for his 2nd kick at no insurance as well as I did him for providing false particulars of insurance (also $5000 minimum).

Now I don't normally lay more than one information for something like that but this guy was a bit of a special case.

And the JP must have agreed with me. He gave him the whole thing - $15,000 (the other Canadian officers will realize this is not the norm from our courts)

Guard Dog
01-11-2003, 08:12 PM
Write um up.....

If they can prove to the court hat they had insurance at the time and it was an insurance co screw up, then the case is dropped.

We get a least one per week call to the clearks office for some moron trying to pass an altered insurance card. ( which can be a Felony charge)

If they don't have insurance thats that. We have a very high mexican population and they routinely hit and run due to no insurance. Many live in Illinois but have a PO box in Wisc becuase they don't have a mandatory insurance requirement.

Lets put it this way. If you family getsclobbered in an accident, do you want they other person to be uninsured? Cops are to make sure the law gets enforced.

Police work is no place for a bleeding heart.

wpreeck
01-11-2003, 08:56 PM
How can you cite and release? They MUST have insurance to drive the car. If you cite and release (I always wanna say catch and release for some reason, lol), then you must NOT let them drive the uninsured vehicle. I've not heard of anyone c & r (I'm tired of typing the thing) for No insurance. They usually end up in jail. Of course, that depends on the officer, as you can c & r. But again, they can't drive off in that car. Tow it, leave it on the side of the road to be vandalized, whatever, but they shouldn't be driving it. By the way, PM me, Deputy...Aren't you on glocktalk as well?

Steve in PA
01-11-2003, 10:03 PM
If they don't have insurance....the car gets towed.

If the vehicle has an expired registration....depends on how long its expired. More than 1 month....more than likely it gets towed.

Sig220Man
01-11-2003, 11:33 PM
Lets say you stop them and they say, I'm sorry officer...I know I should have insurance...but I don't. Do you cite and release (which in KY is a $500 fine) or cite and tow the vehicle?

I write them a ticket (or at least I will until 2007...see my post above :mad: :mad: ). Again I cannot tow a vehicle for lack of insurance, nor is the offense an arrestable one in this state. I think that the reason it's not an arrestable offense is because if it is, half the population of Los Angeles County would end up in jail <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Another situation, they say they have insurance and present an expired card. You call the company and they say the policy is cancelled.

I work nights so calling an insurance company is not an option. If an expired card is presented, they get written. If they claim to have current insurance but simply forgot to bring a current card, they are advised to present proof to the judge. Again, most judges will dismiss this charge upon proof of current insurance.

I'm also curious if anyone has ever let one go that was later involved in an accident. Were there any ramifications?

Again the most a CA peace officer can do is issue a citation; we cannot prevent them from driving off. If they are involved in a crash, and are uninsured, the most the DMV can do is suspend their license.

David757
01-12-2003, 10:38 AM
Lobster, what are those things that are on the front windshield of cars in the UK? They're round and contain some type of information about the vehicle or perhaps the tax that's been paid on it.
dc, I was just surprised to see it again after many years. I think I may still have a shirt with that on it though!! :D
wprebeck, no..I'm not on Glocktalk. I am from Louisville though....I don't work there, but it's my hometown!!

PiperMaru
01-12-2003, 01:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Deputy757:
<strong>I am from Louisville though....I don't work there, but it's my hometown!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cool, someone else from Louisville. :)

Sgt Lobster
01-12-2003, 06:14 PM
Deputy 757,

The official name for the small round disc that should be displayed in the front nearside windscreen of your car (RHD), is a Vehicle Excise Licence commonly called a tax disc.

A motor vehicle has to be taxed if used or kept on a road repairable at public expense. The amount of tax payable depends on the type of vehicle, and you can purchase a licence that is valid for either 6 or 12 months. The licences change colour every year and contain a serial number plus details of the taxed vehicle.

Tax evasion is very high in many areas. Some people display forgeries. Some people alter the details of a stolen disk. Another trick is to display a valid disk from one vehicle you own in another.

The Government have periodic enforcement campaigns in which untaxed cars are clamped, towed and sometimes crushed if not claimed !

Enforcement can be time consuming, and some people suggest putting more duty on our already extortionate fuel prices and doing away with the car tax.

Lobster.

David757
01-12-2003, 06:29 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sgt Lobster:
<strong>
Enforcement can be time consuming, and some people suggest putting more duty on our already extortionate fuel prices and doing away with the car tax.
Lobster.</strong>
Amen to that brother! The first time I filled up the tank in my wife's small 4 cylinder car, the clerk asks for about 30 pounds. I looked at him and said..."No,no..I'm not paying for everyone's gas...just that one there!"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">