For ONLY those wanting honest training/nutrition help not a cheerleader

[ProWriter]

If anybody has questions about physique shaping routines, strength training, weight loss or maintenance, nutritional advice, and preliminary athletic injury diagnosis, prevention, rehabilitation, and advice or suggestions about related topics I'm always happy to help. I always give totally impartial, objective answers if it's something I know about, or suggestions where to find more info if it's something I don't. I have nothing to sell, no "vendetta" against any particular product or philosophy or person...but I don't want to argue, especially with anybody whose interest or experience in the subject is fifteen minutes old, either.

<small>[ 06-12-2003, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]</small>

[jarhead6073]

I'm looking to get my 3 mile run time down to about 20:00. I don't know where I'm at right now but I finally finished 3 miles today after 1 1/2 weeks of training. I felt pretty good after I got to @ 1.5 miles. My question(s) are what should I eat to have energy but not gain weight (I'm running 4-5x a week)? I will want to add muscle later but right now I want to get my weight and run time down.

Also, sometimes when running heavy for weeks/months I have knee pain. Back when I was on active duty someone advised me that maybe I needed more fat in my diet as fat provides cushioning for the joints. Is there any truth to this and is there anything I can do for sore knees?

[Ron1432]

Pro,

Have you heard anything good/bad about the "water" being sold with additives? (Propel etc.) Are they worth it?

[ProWriter]

What's up fellas. Let me take the easy one first:

Ron, all those "specialized" water products are a COMPLETE farce and a total waste of money. The most ridiculous of them is "O2GO Water" that is supposedly "oxygenated" to "oxygenate" your muscles or whatever. We don't absorb oxygen through our digestive system, but through our lungs. The other ones with extra vitamins aren't worth buying either.

A good B-complex multivitamin is about all anybody needs for health. Extra water soluble vitamins like Vitamin C can't be stored, so you just excrete them out when you take a leak, and if you really take too much you get the squirts, and eventually, kidney stones. The other vitamins (like A and E) do get stored in your tissues and excessive amounts of them (especially A) can be toxic and cause significant health problems. Other than a good multivitamin, nobody really needs any extra vitamins unless you're diagnosed as having some specific deficiency. A lot of research says that some extra vitamin C bolsters your resistance to colds and also promotes quicker healing of injuries and workout recuperation, but 1000 mg or so per day is really plenty...and you should get the time released versions which permit maximum absorption. If you get a lot of sun or you start getting stretch marks from training, 10,000 IU of E and A have been shown to minimize sun damage, and the same goes for smokers. Vitamin E OIL, on the other hand does absolutely nothing for your skin besides moisturize it temporarily...your skin doesn't absorb any E from topical application at all.

If you do decide to buy vitamins individually don't waste money on "name brands", either. They literally come from the same factory production line and they get conveyer belted into different bottles with very different prices, which incidentally, is the exact same situation with BATTERIES, which are exactly the same cell from the same production line, some of which get wrapped into a "Duracell" label for $7.99 a pack while others ones from the exact same batch get a "CVS" or other store brand label for $3.99. (Consumer Reports has covered both vitamins and batteries and it's just ridiculous.)

Check the labels if you're spending money on bottled water too: a lot of them that have a real nice mountainous picture and are called "Vermont Springs" or whatever have fine print that says "A product of Cleveland Municipal Water Supply", which means you're paying for Cleveland tap water in a nice bottle, so read the labels on water too. Forget any "specialized" vitamin waters, though. Even good old Gatorade is considered too high in sugar and sodium by the experts and excessive sodium causes dehydration by depleting potassium as well as drawing water into your digestive system from your body tissues, which is exactly the opposite of what you hope to accomplish by drinking fluids in the first place.

I don't know too much about advanced training programs for running specifically, but there are some general running principles I can give you:

The most likely source of knee pains is cheap, or improperly fitting, or the wrong type of footwear. You can't run in anything but running shoes, so if you're using "cross trainers" or whatever, that's the first thing I'd look into and get a good quality running shoe. (Consumer reports also has covered them thoroughly.) The fit also has to be right and if you have any kind of irregular contours of your foot or arch, it's worth having a specialist like a podiatrist take a look and suggest a shoe or even prescribe an orthotic. Whatever you do, do not buy an over-the-counter orthotic because they've been shown to cause more problems than they solve.

Running surfaces matter a lot too, and pounding out 3 miles on pavement is a lot of abuse from your ankles all the way up to your lower back, so if you're running on hard surfaces, knee pains are no mystery.

If you can stay awake for it, tape a marathon on TV, and watch the close-ups they show of professional runners' feet, too. They stay a few inches off the ground, while novices sometimes get much higher up in the air, which is a lot of unnecessary pounding every single stride.

Extra fat in your diet isn't necessary, because it's much more likely to be an issue of footwear, running surface, or stride mechanics. In any case, unless you're absolutely starving or a contestant on "Survivor", there's really no chance that you're consuming too little fat for normal synovial fluid production. Icing your knees is also a good idea anytime they hurt from any kind of activities, and anti-inflammatories like Aspirin with a meal helps too. (See my post on knee problems too, for more on this.) Finally, take a look at your running shoes. If the outside of the heels are very worn and the insides almost new looking, you almost certainly have plain old "runner's knee" or peri-pattelar irritation. That's caused by a supinating anomaly of your foot during your running stride and it is diagnosed and solved by a sports medicine physician who will also prescribe orthotics for it. He will also rule out bursitis, kneecap subluxation and "jumper's knee" for which there is a little half-moon looking cushion thing that presses on the front lower portion of your kneecap by a strap around your knee. Whatever it is, it can usually be diagnosed and fixed by some combination of orthotics and/or other therapeutic device, so there's no need to suffer through it to get your running in.

Runners tend to eat a lot of complex carbs, but the key is to eat them all the time, rather than a few hours or half a day before you're running, since they take a day or two to be processed into usable muscle glycogen. Aerobic athletes also like to suck down some carbs immediately after training too, because many believe they get absorbed particularly well right after you've depleted them.

Generally, athletes want to limit their sugar intake, and it's not really a great idea to have anything with sugar BEFORE running, but surprisingly, research has shown that consuming a little sugar DURING aerobic exercise really helps your endurance. Similarly, if you don't mind caffeine, it seems to increase the amount of body fat burned during aerobic activity, which normally doesn't get burned at all until after you've depleted your entire glycogen store.

I'd also avoid eating a few hours before running, and ideally, run on an empty stomach, suck some simple carbs in your running water, some complex carbs right after, and wait until you've showered and relaxed a bit before eating a full meal with your proteins for muscle repair.

Salt tablets are totally unnecessary unless you're running in 100 degree weather and just pouring sweat. Potassium, on the other hand is a good supplement to have, especially if you've ever experienced muscle cramping. Bananas have a lot as far as foods go, but I'd get a bottle of store brand potassium or chelated potassium gluconate and just take one 500 or 600 mg pill once a day with a full glass of water or a meal, which will keep you from becoming dehydrated.

Dehydration is a funny thing too. For one thing, by the time you experience thirst, it's too late to catch up. There's always a lag between dehydration and the onset of thirst, so you want to drink a full glass of water before you run, whether you're thirsty or not at the time.

I'm not a source of any advanced running advice, but I hope that's helpfull for now OK?

<small>[ 06-11-2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]</small>

[jarhead6073]

Thanks Pro. Shoes aren't a problem right now since I just purchased some good ones. I think they were probably a problem in the past, not because they were cheap or ill-fitting, I simply wore them out and was too cheap to replace them when I should have. Always running on asphalt or concrete probably doesn't help either.

I've been trying to change my eating habits the last couple of weeks to eat less more often and take vitamins. I could probably do better on reducing my fat intake but I'm pretty careful about it anyway. Do you have any advice on caloric intake? (seemingly) All nutrition information label info is based on a 2,000 calorie diet. If I'm running 4-5 times per week 3-4 mile at a time, I should be taking in more than 2,000 calories right?

[ProWriter]

No problem Jar. As far as calories, I've always thought it makes a lot more sense to focus on eliminating certain types of foods rather than actually counting calories.

For one thing, when you eliminate the types of foods that really have no place in a fitness conscious diet, you're already reducing your calories enough for dietetic purposes.

The other reason is that not all calories are created equal: You can get away with eating more calories of low fat, low sugar calories, because even the excess get stored less as fat and burns more calories being converted to fat than high fat, high sugar foods do.

I've found that when you focus on eliminating high fat/sugar foods by type you don't even have to bother counting calories, but more importantly, when you don't cut out (or down on) foods by type, you always feel like you're "dieting" and it's harder to stay under whatever calorie count you're shooting for.

The beauty of controlling your weight by (mosly)eliminating fats and simple carbs is that it's much harder to eat too many calories of the right foods, and you can practically eat as much as you want (within reason, of course).

Ultimately, any way you reduce your calorie intake will work...I just think it's easier and more effective to do it by eliminating classes of foods that contribute too many calories than to do it by ignoring what types of foods you eat and just keep a running tally of "calories".

2000 sounds a little light for an active male, but you really need a basal metabolism test to determine your caloric needs accurately.

[10-13]

can you give some examples of foods thats are "simple carbs", "complex carbs", etc...?

i find myself getting dehydrated fairly quickly when i run, even though i drink alot the day before running. ill normally drink about 4 gallons of water & gatorade the day before. its been in the 90's here for the past few days and ive been sweating up a storm even when im standing still.

[ProWriter]

Sure Bro...I'm stuck in the same heat wave, just going from AC apartment to AC car and I sweated my ***** off getting some sun in the park Monday.

You can't really store up water ahead of time because you just excrete it. The idea is just to make sure you're not at all dehydrated before you run outside and just drink consistently throughout hot days.

Gatorade has a lot of salt, which contributes to dehydration, so water is probably better, and I take a potassium pill once a day if I'm outside in this weather at all.

Complex carbs:

Whole grain breads that say "whole wheat" or "oats" as their first ingredients instead of bleached flour. "Enriched Unbleached" is better than bleached, but whole wheat is more complex and preferable to any form of "white" bread. Brown rice is more complex than white rice, sweet potatoes more complex than regular potatoes, green spinach pastas, red tomato pastas, and semolina pastas are all more complex than white pasta. Beans, legumes, and vegetables like peas that aren't primarily cellulose (which is fine for you, too) are also complex carbs. All forms of sugar, whether table sugar or brown or maple syrup or honey are the simplest carbs of all.
Cakes and cookies are all simple bleached flour and as often as not, they're not even the first ingredient because sugar is. Same goes for any cereal marketed to kids.

If you check my earlier posts on the original Atkins thread before it deteriorated into a shouting match, I detailed other tips about reading labels and identifying foods with too much fat, sugar, and simple carbs.

Just let me know if you have any more related questions.

[jarhead6073]

I compared the labels of Gatorade and Powerade and found that Powerade has half the sodium of Gatorade. 4 servings per 32oz bottle at 110mg and 55mg per serving. Is that still too much sodium to be effective as a hydrating agent? The drinks are equal in other listed nutrition information.

10-13,

It's a good idea to drink water the day before you run, 4 gallons seems excessive to me but I have a hard time drinking 6-8 glasses a day. But it's also important to drink water the day you run. No matter how much water you drink the day before you run, you don't drink any water overnight so you wake up somewhat dehydrated in the morning.

[ProWriter]

You know what Jar? I don't think that amount of sodium is a big issue to anybody who isn't supposed to be on a salt-restricted diet for medical reasons. It's not really that 110mg of sodium in a soft drink is so terrible...it's just that sodium is the last thing you need when you're already worried about dehydration and trying to rehydrate yourself.

I don't think either of those drinks is particularly "bad" if you like them...but it's kinda stupid that something like Gatorade which is specifically marketed to combat exercise related dehydration is LESS effective than plain water for that purpose. I'd probably be more likely to drink Gatorade as a "soft drink" at home if I liked it than to use it when I was worried about dehydration. In my experience sedentary females seem more sensitive to sodium related water retention than male athletes, but it varies from person to person.

<small>[ 06-28-2003, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]</small>

[10-13]

pro, thanks for the info.

ill post back if i have more questions.

[BunnyFoo-Foo]

Do you have any tips on how I can stregthen my shoulders (whole upper body, really) and my legs. I would benefit from all over strength, but those are my weak spots from the accident.
Here is the low down on what happened to what, surgery and and residual stuff....
fracture of right wrist, fracture of left clavicle with subluxed (????) shoulder and ligament & tendon rupture in right knee (acl, pcl, mcl, lcl, and patellar tendon)
I had a external fixation on my wrist and only have occasional crampy feelings and cannot flex my thumb...I can do the opposable thing, just cant flex it. My shoulder gets stiff and achy and does some funny clicking sometimes..probs with bursitis, my knee just gets a little bursitis every now and then.....need quad strength...I have had a complete allograft of the tendons/ligs that ruptured...cadaver parts and my patellar tendon is a graft made of who knows what. I am Frankenstein, basically.
Overall, my muscles surrounding those post injury things are pretty weak and I know they could benefit from regular massage and strength training. Every P.T I go to just does stuff to help relieve my bursitis in whatever joint and will only do what doc says to do because insurance will only pay for what is prescribed.
My knee is pretty stable considering; I did have someone at the Y teach me some stuff using weights, but I swear, I thought my tibia was going in the opposite direction as my femur, so I stopped....last thing I need is to rip those collaterals again, huh.
Any tips? I would appreciate any you may have. Ask as many questions as you want...I am beyond getting my feelings hurt or getting upset about talking about the accident and injuries....
Thanks!

[ProWriter]

Bunny, in your situation, I wouldn't trust anybody who presumed to offer workout advice on-line at all. It's hard enough to help people, in general, without seeing them in person, and any on-line training tips are necessarily more general than in-person training advice.

Even "standard" athletic injuries and surgical repairs (those with which trainers are familiar) complicate the prospect, but MV accidents produce UNIQUE injuries with their own sets of physical idiosyncrasies and limitations that you have to work around, which makes giving specific exercise advice impossible in absentia.

If you're still rehabbing anything, then you need to focus more on the isometric types of exercises that they do in physical therapy sessions, and on the stretching and range-of-motion stuff they work on in PT. There's very little you can do in gyms, unless your PT gives you a program at a gym whose equipment he/she's familiar with.

Even if you're all done with rehab, strengthening shoulders is a much different thing for someone with a history of injury or past problems with the joint and it can't be done from afar. In my opinion, one of the best exercises for your shoulder would be running...as in AWAY from any trainer who'd try to give someone with your injury history any specific exercise recommendation via the Internet ok?

[BunnyFoo-Foo]

Thanks Pro..appreciate the advice! Sorry I took so long to get back to you..I was on vacation. I got a massage while away and.....that helped that clicky feeling in my shoulder.
I will stick to my isometric exercises that I was taught and use my stationary bike....start walking....etc.

[medicineman]

jarhead6073 - some good training programs for increasing you speed can be found from a gentleman by the name of Hal Higdon. He is a worldclass runner and has develop training programs for all levels of running that are available for free on his web site - www.halhigdon.com (http://). Check out the intermediate or advanced programs for the 5k - they'll have speed work like 400 intervals, and tempor runs which are good - you may even find hill work which will help. He also has a great book called "Run Fast" (by Hal Higdon obviously) which I would also recomend. Let me know how it goes and what you think of the availble programs.

[skwashie]

Pro- I could use your help here...
First the low down on myself, during 4 years of college I have become lazy and out of shape. I went from a decent muscular build and being able to run freely without tiring, to barely being able to run half a mile straight and well showing some excessive poundage around my mid section. The college diet, unfortunately sucks....

Anyway Im on the road towards the state police academy and testing. I need to get into shape relatively fast, and could use any ways of motivation and any beginning exercises to get my body working again. Currently I lift about 3 days a week at moderate weight focusing on my upper body for the most part, i try to do at least 3 nights of crunches a week, and im trying to force a regiment of push ups nightly, but so far its been tough to stay to it.
The only aerobic exercise I manage to complete is some mountain biking, ocassionaly jump rope, jog maybe once or twice a week in low lengths 1/4 - 1/2 mile. Running and jogging tears up my knees and ankles. Other than that the ocassional paintball game or day on the soccer field.

Any ideas or suggestions on beginning a regiment would be excellent!

[ProWriter]

Truthfully, if your main goal is passing the fitness part of the State Trooper Trainee Candidate test and if you're short on time, I'd tailor my workout to the exact requirements of the test.

You have the rest of your life to get back and then stay in shape and eat right. Police candidate tests can vary quite a bit from none to laughably easy, and up to fairly difficult. Some use a timed run, others let you walk to complete the distance run without timing it at all, and so forth.

I'd go to the particular agency's website and then work up to exactly whatever they're going to make you do at the test. Forget other training for now if getting into the academy is a priority and time is of the essence.

I'd also check with your trooper friend and find out what the fitness training is IN the academy. That way you can also get some head start toward being halfway competent in that area once classes start, because they don't want you showing up expecting to "get in shape" there. Hopefully, there will be some similarity between what you have to work up to for the test and what you have to be able to do once you're training in the academy.

If you have to run a mile or two you can work on your wind on any aerobic machine that doesn't bother your knees...and you can run some on a soft surface in good running shoes, but if you're going to have to run a mile and a half in 15 minutes or something, you're going to have trouble if you don't train for it, so you have to do something.
If it's not a realistic amount of time you can always train a few months and apply to the next academy class, unless you think you can handle failing the first time without getting discouraged. Find out when the next testing dates are and what the minimum waiting period is between attempts at that agency and go from there.

And if you mention your preparation at the oral board or interviews don't say "regiment" because you're gonna make any board panelists with military experience giggle. It's regimen :) If you have any other questions, let me know...good luck.

[That Guy]

Hey Pro,

Are creatine supplements really worth taking? If they are what are the best kinds and how often should I take it?

Thanks

TG

[Traffic*Goddess]

PW-
I really strained my trapezius while pushing a car. I've been to the ortho and it's been almost 6 weeks of resting it since the incident. I'm taking 600 mg of Ibuprofen, 10 mg of flexeril and Vicodin for at night. I'm starting physical therapy at the end of the week.
My question is...the pain has really decreased in that the sharp, agonizing stuff is gone (unless I overtax it by picking up my rugrat), but instead, I have a constant, deep ache that feels like there is a steel cable trying to yank my left shoulder blade up to the base of my skull. (How's that for descriptive? LOL)
Obviously, it is creating havoc with efforts to fall asleep...any suggestions?

[ProWriter]

Originally posted by That Guy
Are creatine supplements really worth taking? If they are what are the best kinds and how often should I take it?

Well, I was just looking for the Supplement and Boldione threads because I wanted to paste some of what I already wrote about creatine and also, balance out the negative that I'm going to say about creatine with what Ateam wrote about creatine.

Unfortunately, I got no response from O.com last time I tried asking what happened to specific threads except a statement that they "weren't aware of" any threads about seatbelt use, cell phone use during traffic stops, and red light cameras. So, I was about to go off about why the Supplement/Boldione/Creatin thread also seem to be gone, but I found them by using the "read all posts from this user" function on myself.
Creatin Thread (http://officer.proteus.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14546)

Anyway TG, I think creatine is a waste. From what I've seen in gyms, the guys who take it just get bloated with water they retain and they make multiple trips to stink up the bathroom because it also gives you the squirts if you take a lot of it. Power lifter types seem to like it, because carrying a little extra weight (even fat) and being a little water logged actually helps with srength lifts...if you don't mind looking a little Pillsbury Doughboyish to squat an extra 20 pounds because that's so important to you :rolleyes:

In my opinion, the main use of creatine, and boldione, and andro, and designer proteins (the list never ends) is so that all the guys lying about being on steroids (the only supplement that actually "works" for muscle building) have something they can SAY they're taking when people ask them if they're on steroids. This is a trick that comes straight from the bodybuilding magazines where EVERYBODY promoting supplements is known by anybody in the field to be on massive doses of steroids. I have no problem with their taking steroids...until they take money to pose in ads holding "creatin" or whatever and claiming that's how they built their bodies to trick you into wasting your money on the junk in the ad.

[ProWriter]

T*G:

I don't know what else you can really do until you start PT. I think Aleve (Naproxen Sodium) is a stronger anti-inflammatory than Motrin is, but you shouldn't take it if you have any stomach issues or on an empty stomach, either.

Heat packs would be a good thing and they're probably going to use them in PT before they stretch and massage you. Unfortunately, it's an area you can't reach to massage yourself, but you might find some angle where stretching it lightly relieves some discomfort.

Stand in front of a door frame about an arm's length away from you...hold the frame about shoulder height and see if gently pulling with a straight arm feels like a beneficial stretch. Experiment by holding the frame at different heights (even directly above your head, if you have something that high you can hold onto. Also experiment with different angles of your body by turning toward your injured side so that your arm pulls across your chest...or turn the other way so your arm is extended straight out from your side.

Stop if you have any pain, but there definitely might be an angle and a height and a body orientation that relieves the muscle spasms a bit (that's what the flexeril does) and stretches the muscle that hasn't been stretched in six weeks. You'll be able to develop a home therapy routine from what they do for you in PT, too.

I've always used DMSO for significant injuries without any problems (other than minor itching). It really helps for the kind of thing you described, even six weeks later. If you decide to try it definitely wear a white t-shirt under your clothes or uniform or vest so it doesn't suck die from your clothes into your skin. Here's what I wrote about it on an old thread:

One thing most athletes in contact sports have discovered is DMSO (Dimethylsulfoxide), which is fantastic for bruises and muscle pulls, especially if you use it real soon after the injury. Technically, it's not approved for human medical use (it's an industrial solvent), but athletes have used it for decades and if you do a Google search, you can find roll-on bottles of it for about $5.00. The only downside is it can give your breath and your sweat a garlic-like odor...and since it's a solvent, don't wear any color-dyed clothes directly over the area because it could ruin the clothes...nor do you want to absorb any color dye or ink through your skin.

The stuff works particularly well if you apply it to an area that has just been struck by a blow that is likely to leave a bruise...a lot of times the bruise never even turns color if you apply DMSO right away. (Obviously, it's not for any injury where you suspect a broken bone and you don't apply it to open wounds, either). Some studies suggest DMSO might be a cause of cataracts later in life, but it's not like you break out the DMSO all the time, so I'm not particularly worried about it, personally.

I checked out the other site BTW...seems like everybody has a real nice, civil tone there but I really couldn't find a thread I had anything to contribute to yet. I'll be checking back regularly though and I appreciate the invite T*G.

[USN]

ProWriter,
Can you advise any particluar shoulder stretching techniques to help manage bursitis? Thanks.

[ProWriter]

USN, I don't know that stretching is what you want to do for bursitis of the shoulder, necessarily. I know the first thing they usually have you do to loosen up a frozen shoulder are what they call "pendulum" exercises, where you bend over at the waist and let a small weight hang from your hand and you gently swing it back and forth in all directions and in gradually bigger circles.

There are other shoulder impingement syndromes besides bursitis, so it's important to make sure you get a competent diagnosis from an orthopedist or sports medicine physician before you start treating yourself. If it's bursitis, I know that oral anti-inflammatories and ice are very helpful. If that doesn't help, they sometimes inject cortisone directly into the sack, but that too has to be done by an experienced doctor who knows not to inject into the rotator cuff tendon at the same time, because cortisone is now known to weaken tendons. As a last resort, they operate to remove the sack and the calcium deposits that cause the problem, and a new bursa sack grows back in about two months.

Bursitis isn't really something that is helped by stretching, at least, not while it's still painful. You're actually supposed to avoid stretching or doing any movements that are painful. After the acute symptoms are reduced by anti-inflammatories and ice packs, the impingement can be addressed with passive pendulum exercises. Stretching is probably something you want to hold off on until your symptoms are gone. Then, if you want to stretch (and warm up your shoulder well before using it, in general), you can stretch just about every possible angle by doing what I suggested to T*G above: it's really just a matter of finding the right angle of (gentle) pull by where you positioning your hand in relation to your torso. There are other stretches that a therapist or qualified trainer can employ, but I'd start off very slow stretching it and only do it after you're pain free again. Hope that helps.

[ProWriter]

Originally sent via PM from someone whose permission I don't yet have to identify publicly:

Hey. I recall from your introductory post that you have a background in fitness and training. I'm looking for a good personal trainer around here. Do you know of any websites of some national associations where I could search for a good trainer? There are just so many here at the gyms, etc., that it's hard to know who's good and who's not. Are there any special credentials or certifications that I should make sure they have?

Imagine a system where you can become a

[krj]

Good post Pro-Writer - I had to laugh reading what you wrote, because you nailed it on the head so well when you described common practices by so-called personal trainers!

One thing I don't agree with you totally though, is that all certifications are irrelevant and equally worthless. All certifications are not created equally, and some of them are total garbage (anyone reading this post could probably get a "certification" off the internet, complete with certificate suitable for framing, by answering a few questions and paying a few bucks).

There ARE however, a number of organizations (including the YMCA, American College of Sports Medicine, National Strength and Conditioning Association, and American Council on Exercise) that make honest attempts to provide participants with at least minimal levels of competency in the field. The operative words however are "minimal levels of competancy". Certifications from nationally recognized training organizations at least let consumers know that these so-called personal trainers have "some training" - and that they are not just trainers because they "look the part".

Another observation is that certification should always be viewed by trainers as a "place to start" - ie. it should just be one step in what should be viewed as an ongoing pursuit to stay relevant and up-to-date in the field.

Pro-Writer you hit on most of the qualities that someone should look for in a personal trainer. I'll just add a couple more thoughts on this:

1. Good trainers (at least in the initial stages of the process) should do very little talking, and spend more time asking questions and listening. Questions about:

a) health history - medical conditions that may be impacted by participation in a safe, progressive exercise program, previous or existing injuries etc.

b) exercise history - what activities do you currently participate in, what kinds of activities do you like to do/dislike,

c) current exercise goals

d) barriers to success - time, money, equipment, work schedules etc.

All of this information gives the trainer insight into who you are, what you are, what you want, and what you have to work with. The program they develop for you should be based on YOUR specific profile - and not a "one-size-fits-all" program that is so common

2. Good trainers should be VERY hands-on (how much will depend on the physical condition and knowledge of the individual) in the early stages of programming, and then gradually take themselves out of the picture (ie. they should teach you how not to need them anymore). This means lots of education - safe exercise technique (both in theory and in practice), injury prevention, monitoring intensity levels, increasing intensity levels, role of nutrition/hydration/rest as it relates to goal enhancement etc.

They should also be totally focused on YOU during their time with you - and focused on what you are actually DOING during your workouts. You don't pay them big bucks to be your friend - you pay them big bucks to help you achieve your health/fitness goals.

Finally, some people make extra money tearing off your tickets at the movie theater, and some people make extra money being a "personal trainer". And many trainers devote as much personal caring and energy to THEIR job, as those ticket-tearers do. Because it is not regulated, it is also one of those "buyer beware" kinds of deals.

Personal opinion - if someone is motivated to participate in physical activity, and takes the time to become educated (through reading, asking questions, observation of others, and in some cases just through trial and error) I just don't think they need a trainer. Spend the money on good shoes instead.

[ProWriter]

KRJ:

I'm familiar with all the certification organizations, and while I have no reason to attack any of them specifically, I was actually talking about ACE, ACSM and NSCA there.

The problem is you can't teach someone how to train other people from a book, and you can't possibly TEACH an activity that you've never even participated in, which is why I used the firearms instructor analogy. No matter how genuine their attempts to establish standards of competency, ALL of the certifications are (easily) achievable by people who enroll in their courses, despite never having worked out themselves a day in their lives.

If someone gets "certified" in ADDITION to his previous ten years of experience working out, then he's probably a better trainer for the effort. But "certification" allows people with ZERO experience in a gym to (literally) walk in off the street, pay for a package, attend a few days of classes and pass a multiple choice exam and then present himself as a "Certified Personal Trainer" or "Conditioning and Strength Coach", still without having worked out a single day in his life. You can't "instruct" someone to workout properly if you've never done it any more than you can "instruct" someone with a firearm if you never fired one yourself until last week.

You know as well as I do that you can't really learn how to workout without DOING it for years, and everybody knows that nobody can "teach" others to do something that he's never done himself. The current personal training certifications allow total novices who don't even know how to workout to present themselves as "credentialed" professionals, which is a ridiculous situation and a rip-off to the consumer. I see this all the time at some of the larger health club chains: They all require "certification" so college kids who aren't even athletes and who've never participated in any fitness routines take the test and then run around in shirts that say "Fitness Trainer" on the back and the club logo on the front. I watch these kids lead unsuspecting novice members around the club and "instructing" them...and then when their shifts end I get nauseous watching them do their own workouts like the total inexperienced novices they are who don't know the most basic elements of training properly and need to be trainED BY someone and certainly not trainING anybody or taking money for it.

I have no problem with experienced trainers ALSO becoming "certified" the way I had to for certain past jobs, but the current system allows totally UNqualified people with zero experience to present themselves as "professionals" and unfortunately, that includes ACE, ACSM and NSCA, because it's entirely possible to obtain all those certificates without ever having worked out a day in one's own life.

[krj]

ProWriter:

My past experience has been that it is usually gym rats who take these courses - they work out themselves, really enjoy it and look the part, so figure why not make some money at it. Most people "off the street" are often too intimidated to even walk INTO a gym without someone holding their hand (let alone taking a course that will get them "certified").

Having said that though, I agree with you re: these courses. They're not designed for participants to fail, and most often there are NO prerequisites in order to participate in one of these courses - either education or experience wise.

IMPO I think that that is a mistake, and that we do the public a disservice by establishing such low/non-existant standards.

However, unless minimum standards are established for entry into these courses (or unless the industry becomes regulated) right now I still think that some of these courses can provide some measure of confidence to the public that the trainer-in-question has received formal and standardized training in the field.

Without that, the public would be asked to make decisions based solely on how long the trainer has been physically active, and what the trainer looks like. And that would be an even greater disservice.

[Delta_V]

ProWriter,

Thanks for answering my PM with all of that good information. Since you say that personal trainers aren't really necessary, are there a couple good books that you recommend that teach things such as proper form and have some examples of good routines? There are probably as many books out there as personal trainers, as well as the various fitness magazines that I would assume aren't really worth the paper they're printed on when it comes to training advice.

[ProWriter]

No problem Patrick. Actually, I still think the best way to learn how to train IS from a trainer...it's just that the way this industry is set up it's almost impossible to distinguish who's qualified to teach you as quickly as possible from all the unqualified rip-off artists masquerading under the cloak of being "certified".

I'd stay the F&%* away from any book written or endorsed by any famous celebrities. A lot of what a beginner needs to learn is hard to get from books because sometimes relatively subtle things make the difference between doing an exercise correctly or incorrectly. See if you can find a copy of a 20 year-old book by Franco Columbu called "Winning Bodybuilding" and remember that accidentally using too much weight is much more of an impediment to progress than accidentally starting too light.

KRJ:

I don't think we're really in disagreement. But as long as it's possible to get "certification" without any experience training at all, the certification is essentially meaningless...and it allows people who know NOTHING about training to present themselves as credentialed professionals, and there's no way around that.

I also agree (and have written here) that you shouldn't pick a trainer based on what he or she looks like, but unfortunately, that's probably no worse than going with a trainer about whom you know nothing besides what certifications he has.

I know it's difficult to regulate such a "hands-on" field, but to me the only thing worse than an UNregulated field is one that is PSUEDO-regulated and presents itself as having a way to ensure competence when that's absolutely not the case at all. Until there's some genuine and reliable way to evaluate trainers, I'd rather see people picking them out by their builds than by a meaningless and misleading official looking "certificate".

[rebbryan]

Dear Pro Writer,
I'm 6'1" 175lbs, mostly muscle. anyways i've been lifting for 5 years, not a lot, but at LEAST once or twice a week. even when i lift every day, alternating lower and upper body, i only seem to gain mass, and not strength. in the past 3 years i've only increased my max 10 lbs. i'm genetically predetermined to be a skinny guy so that might be one factor, but i want to gain more strength rather than mass. i've tried doing 4X4 of heavy weights, i've tried 3X2's, and i've even tried some periodization, but i only gain mass and hardly any strength. i mix up my routines sometimes, and sometimes stay with the same groups, but still no change. i've tried all the supplements, creatine, whey protein, muscle blast formula, amino acids, nothing seems to help. any ideas?

[krj]

Hey Rebbryan - if you don't mind my asking, what are your goals? I know you want to get stronger, but what kinds of things do you want to be able to do personally/professionally that you can't do now, with your current strength level?

[ProWriter]

Reb:

My jealousy prevents helping anybody who actually gains muscle "accidentally" lifting once or twice a week,so you're on your own ok? Probably eat whatever the hell you want too, huh?

Just kidding...about the last part, not the jealousy.

Theres's no magic number of sets or reps because people vary so much. Generally, you're going to want to focus on "compound" movements using large muscles and groups of muscles in combination (squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, etc) and avoid "isolation" movements that target a single small muscle (triceps kickbacks, cable flies, leg extensions, etc) except as warmup movements for your main workout.

Equally important for you is avoiding what we hard muscle gainers have to work for; namely, getting pumped. Your sets should consist of reps of 10,8,6 and 4's and you should avoid doing enough reps of any exercise to get a good "pump" in that muscle. Unlike those of us primarily interested in shaping our physique, you want to fail on every set where the weight just stops moving, whereas I want to fail on each set from the pain of lactic acid buildup in muscular fatigue.

Experiment and keep in mind you may get too pumped from doing sets of 10 on one movement and from sets of 6 on others and don't listen to anybody in the gym with a simplistic formula like just doing sets of 4 for every single muscle or whatever. Talk to powerlifter types with the thick blue belts, chalked hands and knee wraps who don't care about what they look like and don't take advice from anybody admiring his physique and getting all pumped up in front of the mirror.

I'm on the road for another ten days (Vegas)and my internet connection is a long distance call unfotunately, but I'll expand on this after you let me know your progress ok?

[rebbryan]

krj, i mainly want to get stronger b/c i'm a volunteer ff and it helps to lug tools, hose, and airpacks around, and i plan on being in LE in a couple years and want to be as strong as I can in case i ever have to wrestle with someone. i mainly want to increase my maxes while still maintaining some shape. i'd rather be freaky strong and little than big and not much power. i came to the conclusion i need to be stronger when i was wrestling with my advisor trying to cuff him (he was playing the bad guy)who weighs 200 pounds and he whooped me pretty good, and he's not the biggest guy out there so i'd feel a lot better if i could increase my strength. i currently bench 200, haven't squat maxed in a while b/c of the lack of a good squat bar

prowriter i think i might have found my problem. i don't feel like i've gotten a workout unless my myscles are pumped and feeling all tight, so i usually work smaller exercises till that happens. i'll try just working out with heavy weights with no atrophy (think that's the right word, i've been reading a book :-) i can't ask the big guys at the gym b/c i work out at the ff. it's free, which is important to a college student :p they've got a bench, a squat bar station that only moves up and down w/ the safety catches and has two pulley systems on the side, a leg extension station, and a "hotel gym" looking thing w/ lat pulldown, shoulder press, leg press, chest press, dip station, and sit up bench. i don't use the squat bar or shoulder press b/c they restrict my range of movement and feel very uncomfortable and i feel like i might be doing damage, and my left knee's not the best in the world.

[krj]

I'm gonna add a few other thoughts to this discussion:

You may want to take a look at this site for the Seattle FD:

http://www.cityofseattle.net/fire/employment/ffjob_physicalAgility.htm

It's the Candidate Physical Ability Test (CPAT) - the fitness test for candidates for the Seattle FD. It is a test put together by The Fire Service Joint Labor Management Wellness/Fitness Initiative. It was developed by the IAFF/IAFC/ACE and has been adopted by 10 large scale FD's throughout the country including Austin TX/LA Co. CA/NYC NY/Phoenix AZ and Seattle WA (among others).

Seattle FD has an excellant training manual at this site (some good stuff for LE also):

http://www.cityofseattle.net/fire/employment/CPATPrepGuide.pdf

This manual describes specifically how to train to pass the CPAT test. It includes information on:

1. warm-up/cool-down exercises
2. strength training exercises
3. how the strength training exercises relate specifically to FF job requirements and test areas
4. maybe most importantly - task-specific training (physical training that you can do on a daily basis using everyday objects, that closely replicates your job requirements)

What I really like about #4 is that strength training in the gym is very different from functional strength development that you can apply to actual tasks you will perform on the job. #4 speaks to that issue.

The strength training information is VERY basic so definately consider Pro-Writers' suggestions - particularly his suggestion re: participating in predominantly compound movements (multiple joints, multiple muscle groups). There is very little that you will be doing in either FF or LE that will require muscle contractions in isolation.

Some other thoughts:

If you are student and money is tight, I would suggest staying away from supplements (which don't seem to have worked for you), and just concentrate on eating well - complex carbohydrates, some fat, some protein.

Basic Pushups (all variations), ab crunches (not full situps - and don't hook your feet under anything or you will also be working hip flexors), and pull-ups are all excellant no-frills/no equipment/strength development exercises.

Even though your 200lb advisor whooped your ***, don't fall into the single-minded thinking that strength development will necessary change that. Strength development will help - so will thinking on your feet and good training (things you will receive during your LE training).

You're only 20 - you may have a little more growing to do. However you end up training though, train safely and pay attention to injuries and the potential for injuries. I remember being 20 (barely), but I am still dealing with injuries today that I incurred when I was younger than you are now. Train safe, and stay safe.

[rebbryan]

i think i could pass that seattle FF test, i've always been good at carrying a lot of crap around.

so hows about making me a workout? :D all i can think of for compound movements is bench press and incline bench. how many muscle groups should each exercise use?

[krj]

Reb - some basic information - here's what you have to work with in your particular gym:

1. BENCH/CHEST PRESS - Pectoral muscles (large muscle group in chest), deltoids (outside of upper arm), triceps primarily. Lats secondary.

Lower/outer pecs stressed more if on flat bench - upper pecs if on an incline bench - lower outer pecs in on a decline bench

2. SQUATS - quadriceps (muscles in front of upper leg), glutes, and erector spinae (spinal erector muscles)

3. LEG PRESS - quads primarily, glutes and hamstrings (muscles in back of upper leg) secondary

4. LAT PULLDOWN - Latissimus Dorsi (outside part of upper back), Trapezius (center portion of upper back), Biceps/biceps bachialis and forearm flexors (all muscles in the arms)

Upper lats stressed more if bar is pulled down behind the neck - lower lats stressed more if bar is pulled down in front of neck.

5. LEG EXTENSION - quadriceps

6. SHOULDER PRESS - deltoids, triceps primarily - upper chest/upper back secondary

7. DIPS - deltoids, biceps, biceps brachialis and forearm flexors

8. SITUP BENCH - I wouldn't use this. It is supposed to work all aspects of abdominal muscles, but really puts more stress on your hip flexors and lower back than anything else.

9. ABDOMINAL CRUNCHES (on the floor) - variety of exercises to work upper/lower/oblique abdominals.

10. PUSHUPS (on the floor) - can also do incline/decline/on knees/vary width of hands etc. Variety of exercises to work all muscles in chest and arms (with secondary emphasis on abs and back)

11. TRICEPS DIPS (flat bench)

12. CHIN UPS/PULLUPS - if you don't have a chin up bar, build one in the station (and don't walk by it without doing a set). Lats, delts, biceps, biceps brachialis, forearm flexors

I'm not sure what kind of cable attachements you have, so take those into consideration also.

13. STEP UPS - if you have a solid bench that you can step up and down on - quads and hip flexors

14. CALF RAISES - off a stair or low bench

Summary:

CHEST - Bench Press - Pushups
BACK - Lat Pulldown - Squats - Chin Ups
LEGS - Squats - Leg Extension - Leg Press - Step Ups - Calf Raises
ARMS - Bench Press - Lat Pulldown - Shoulder Press - Dips - Chins - Triceps Dips
ABDOMINALS - crunches (secondary when acting as stabilizers for pushups and squats)

You don't have a lot of equipment there, but it's meat and potatoes stuff that covers most of your biggest bases (and largest muscle groups). Your equipment seems light in two areas - lower back and hamstrings. You do get SOME work for these areas (hamstrings with leg extensions and squats - lower back with squats) - but it's light. Which should be a consideration not only from a balanced-workout perspective, but also from a injury prevention perspective.

Re: your weight workouts my suggestion is this:

With the exception of leg extensions (that are an isolation lift for quads) and triceps dips (that are are isolation move for triceps) all of your equipment incorporates compound moves (multiple muscle groups). The easiest way to divide it up is two non-consecutive days of upper body work and two non-consecutive days of lower body work. You can do ab work each day you strength train.

Try ProWriter's suggestion of 10, 8, 6 and 4 reps.

You said that you haven't squat maxed in a while. Maxing out could be one of those things you do periodically for your own information, but in terms of real-world applications no-one knows or cares just what your personal 1 rep max is. Raw strength has it's place, but muscular endurance (being able to perform repeated muscular contractions for a long period of time) will serve you better in your personal (and particularly your professional) life.

Also re: your knee issue - be sure that during all of your leg exercises (including squats) that your knee does not extend beyond a 90 degree angle (for squats - don't drop your ***** below your knees). When you perform step ups, make sure that the bench is not so high that your knee goes beyond that 90 degree angle. I've been taught this forever, but I can also speak from very personal experience re: this issue. My chronic, long-term knee injury is a result of my participation in karate - spending years doing things that placed significant compression on my knee cap.

Spend at least 5 minutes warming up prior to heavy lifting - can be either light cardio stuff or (preferably) lifting with light weights. The cardio stuff will gradually increase body temp, HR, BP, lubricate joints - to minimize your chances for injury. The light lifting will also do these things, in addition to providing a "rehearsal affect" ie. warm-up the specific muscles/tendons/ligaments that will soon be lifting much heavier weights. Whether it's the general cardio warmup or the more specific lifting warm-up - just make sure you do SOMETHING before going into heavy weights.

Do some form of cardio work at least 4 days a week - run, walk, swim, stair climb, bike, eliptical - whatever. Muscular strength and endurance is increased through weight training (placing enough stress on muscles so that adaption/strength increase can occur). But S&E is also enhanced through a more efficient cardiovascular system (that improves the efficiency of your heart/lung and circulatory system). An efficient CV system means that more blood (and consequently more nutrients and oxygen) is sent to working muscles.

A strong CV system will also aid in keeping your weight under control, and keep your disease risk down. Something that will become much more important to you in just a few short years.

Work the flexibility component at least 3-4 times/week - ie. stretch. Stretching at the end of your workouts will:

a) aid in maintaining flexibility around your joints
b) assist in moving waste products that are produced during strenuous exercise out and away from muscles
c) assist you in maintaining longer muscles (as opposed to short and bulky muscles)

Drink a lot of water. Eat a diet high in complex carbs/some fat/some protein. Take at least 1 day off a week from exercise to allow your muscles and connective tissues to build and repair themselves (when you exercise regularly and at a high intensity your body is in a continual state of breakdown and repair. You will only see consistant signs of improvement in performance if you give your body time to allow this process to complete itself). Sleep well and long.

TO SUMMARIZE:

1. 5 minutes warm-up before every hard exercise session
2. 2 non-consecutive days upper body
3. 2 non-consecutive days lower body
4. cardio 4 times a week
5. stretch (may as well take 5-10 minutes after every workout session)

There are many trains of thought re: workout strategies. This is one approach. I am sure that others with more strength training experience will also give you some suggestions - please take a look at all suggestions and then try 'em out. I am sure that over a short period of time you will find a complete workout program for yourself that meets your needs.

Best of luck.

[rebbryan]

thanks, that helps a lot, i'm gonna have to find some cardio to do, i hate that stuff unless it's a game or swimming, and no pool and no time for a sports team make it hard :p

[55Johnny]

I have recently been accepted to the academy, I am 22 years old and have recently lost a lot of weight. I am 6'00 and about 160/165 lbs. I joined a local gym to try to bulk up for my LE career. Im new to the whole gym scene and recently picket up some GNC mega whey protein to help out in the process. Im taking that in addition to a multi-vitamin daily. Any suggestions for a guy just getting into this to bulk up and develop a good body? Should I seek a personal trainer? Im starting my body from scratch, not too much in the way of muscle right now. Basically I dont want to be the small guy too much longer.

Any advise?

[ProWriter]

Congratulations 55:

I'll post some more info on here tomorrow...but if you look through the old health/fitness threads in the meantime, it's pretty much all been answered right on here ok?

[DaveJersey]

Hi ProWriter....

I used to be a very hard gainer, so I used pro hormones (such as 1-AD and Dermadrol) a few years back, and they were very helpful in putting on muscle. I understand that many of these do have side effects, and aren't the most supported or recommended to use, but I tried (not abused) them for a few months and was happy with the results. Not that I was looking for a short cut (I always trained and ate properly), but they were helpful in achieving my desired results.

I stopped using them a few years back because I didn't want ANYTHING to come up on an LE drug test. So my question is, should I stay away from them if pursuing an LE career? Can these pro hormones show up on a urine test? And will a simple explanation suffice since these are legal? I have never used steroids. Anything I buy is legal and I pick up ay my local Vitamin Shoppe. Just looking for some input. Thanks.

[ProWriter]

55:

The (most important) and hardest thing will be learning to choose and perform exercises properly, and recognizing the right weight to allow you to get a pump from. 99.9% of beginners use weights that they can barely lift at all and which make proper form impossible. If you look through the last six months of Fitness/Nutrition/Supplement threads on O.com, you'll find that KRJ and I have addressed that stuff, as well as the pros/cons/difficulties inherent in finding a good trainer.
Please take a look through those threads and then let me know what specific questions you still have and I'll do my best to answer ok?

I've also addressed the supplements issue on here before: Basically, there's no pill, potion or lotion that will do much in terms of muscular gains. 99.9% of beginners who want to gain weight focus too much on protein, but your body can't use much more than 1 gram per pound of body weight. If you want to increase your caloric intake, eat more complex carbs (also defined extensively in numerous old threads/posts). If you're a really thin person with a fast metabolism, you could just add some higher calorie/higher fat foods, including even fast food junk that anybody worried about staying trim has to avoid like it's poison. Try to break up your total caloric intake into more smaller meals, and if you decide to add some kind of gain weight shake, have it as your last meal of the day, unless you want to use it to save time for breakfast...just don't have it as a snack during the day, because it will just end up replacing one meal you'd have had otherwise.

Dave:

The makers of Dermadrol were put on notice about a year ago by the Cincinnati office of DHHS that skin patches, nasal sprays, and sublingual products aren't legally considered "dietary" supplements but drugs by definition, and therefore not exempt from FDA testing requirements, etc, etc.

I don't believe that any products sold in health food stores do anything to help muscle growth, and I've also gone into that topic on o.com before at length...let me know if you have any questions after you look through older threads.

As I've written, I'd be most skeptical about anything marketed to SOUND like steroids (like "Dermadrol"). There's really no evidence that any of these things works, and "andro" (a component of Dermadrol) was actually shown in recent studies to LOWER male hormone levels. Andro would never have even become a fad if it hadn't been spotted by some reporter in Mark Maguire's locker. If he'd been chewing on raw seaweed wraps, that would have become the latest body building health food fad instead of Andro.

The placebo effect can be tremendously powerful: I've seen guys who took their very first steroid injection break their all-time lifting records that same day...even though no injectable steroid even gets into your muscles for at least a week or two :rolleyes:

Everybody usually experiences his fastest gains when he first starts training, and anything that adds to your enthusiasm or expectations of gains (like a new supplement you believe will work) tends to help you by motivating you to train more often, longer, and harder...and THAT's what "works", not necessarily any product.

If you know anybody on steroids you'll SEE how fast and dramatically steroids work. If there were any such "supplement" available in health food stores, everybody would start blowing up like steroid users and it would spread like wildfire. It wouldn't be replaced next year by some other fad right around the corner, either.

Usually people who "gain" on all this health food fad stuff eat and train much more to go along with it and that's why they gain whatever they gain. Furthermore, many of them just gain water weight and/or fat from all that extra food, but they think the scale means they "grew". I've noticed that most these creatine/andro guys seem to share a water-logged, soft, puffy look that doesn't constitute "muscle".

Keep in mind that a BIG factor is that everytime a new nonsense product comes out all the steroid guys who lie about steroid use SAY that "Andro" or "Creatine" or "Designer Proteins" is behind their gains, and that aslo clouds reality. If you talk to a guy with muscles and veins popping all over the place, pimples on his arms and legs, male pattern baldness and a much deeper voice than he had a few months ago...he ain't doin anything you can buy at Vitamin Shop ok? ;)

Partly because I'm giving JRT6 the benefit of doubt I decided to test creatine myself. I noticed that I seemed to be training a little harder while on the oral capsules, and I went from 185-192...but to me it all looks like water weight or fat, so now I'm taking it back off by cutting a few calories until I'm back where the mirror tells me it's mostly muscle...then I 'll weigh myself again and see what weight I am when I don't look softer than usual. I didn't even take enough to "load" as instructed, I simply took about 5 grams a day orally for two weeks or so. I'm going to try sublingual drops only before I train as my next test.

The urine test screen will probably only test for recreational drugs. I doubt they'll be spending a couple of hundred extra $ per test looking even for steroids, let alone legal hormone "stimulants". It depends what they're looking for though...if they're looking for andro, they can probably find it in urine screens or blood tests. Chances are you're much more likely to fail a THC test by testing false positive if you eat two poppy seed bagels that morning than from anything in a health food store. I think some antihistamines (like sudafed) MIGHT cause false positives for amphetamines, but I don't think andro or dermadrol will harm anything besides your wallet. Keep a record (and documentation) of whatever you take, just in case...and disclose all of it beforehand to be safe. If you want to be REALLY anal about it, contact the department in writing and ask whether the supplements you're considering are prohibited and keep all that correspondence.

Let me know if you have any other questions ok Bro'?

[DaveJersey]

Pro Writer:

Thanks you for taking the time for such a detailed response. It was very insightful. I definitely agree with the "placebo effect." I was always a bit sceptical about pro hormones -- but I thought I had to use them for the big gains. While I did see results when I first started using 1-AD, that was coincidentally when I had lots of free time to spend in the gym and was much more motivated. During my more recent "lazy" period, the results were minimal when using the product.

I am using creatine, however. Just started MetaCel and according to some book and CD-ROM they gave me (as my free gift! :rolleyes: ) it claims to saturate your muscles better than most other creatine products on the market. I'll let you know how true that is!

Aside from diet advice, any good methods or supplements for breaking a plateau? I haven't put on more muscle in a few months and am looking for a boost in some way. I've changed around my training split along with new creatine, but any other advice would be appreciated. Any comments on Nitric Oxide? Saw it on the cover of the new M&F but have yet to read that article.

Thanks!

[ProWriter]

Musccle & Fitness should be used like Playboy: skip the articles and go right to the pictures of the fitness chicks...except at least Playboy sometimes has decent reading too. I haven't read M&F in about 15 years but let me save you the trouble...here's what the cover article is going to say:

Their "researchers" have discovered a new chemical that is as
effective as steroids without the dangers.
-It has been used successfully in European countries by body builders who swear by it.
-Some of the top pros are now using it and they're very pleased with the result.
-They will keep you posted on its availability, because Joe Weider is the best thing to ever happen to body building and he cares about your progress.

It's all bull****. Go back through 20 years' worth of articles in all the body building mags and you'll see a pattern: First a blurb about some "research", next, the introduction of a new "breakthough" product:rolleyes: a few issues later, then a cover story on its success, and finally, about a year's worth of issues advertising it with pictures of steroid built stars swearing the new product helped them look like that in every health food store and gym you walk into...and eventually, a new blurb about some brand new garbage, after the public backs off the OLD "new breakthrough product" because it just doesn't work.

The industry knows that a few million people will (each) spend hundreds of dollars on every new product if it's advertised smoothly enough, which makes it good business for them to just come up with new crap every year as long as we keep forking over hundreds of millions collectively to figure out that their "newest" product doesn't work either. Just go look up the history of "Designer Aminos", "Chromium Picolinate", "Yohimbe Bark Extract", and going back to the 80's, "Arginine/Ornithine", which was supposed to result in gains equal to growth hormone if you chugged about five grams of each before bed every night.

If you play that CD backwards it says: "SPEND MORE MONEY ON OUR PRODUCT...SPEND MORE MONEY ON OUR PRODCUT...AND TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS IT WORKS"

Once you get past your initial gains, it gets harder because almost any routine works when your body is brand new to training. After that, you need to learn how to train better...that means exercise technique, frequency (overtraining is no better than undertraining), exercise selection, exercise or body part order, and above ALL, not training too heavy to get a pump in the belief that swinging around a heavy weight will make you "bigger". If there were any product that really worked (besides steroids) it wouldn't need any "cover stories" or advertising blitz to sell, OK? When was the last time you saw a glossy "advertisement" for Deca Durabolin, or Testosterone Cypionate, or Anadrol? They don't need any "advertising" besides word of mouth...and nobody using any of them ever goes "back" to anything sold in health food stores...except maybe as a very different kind of "cover story";)

[kttref]

Hi (i'm going to post this in a few threads...so if it was talked about somewhere else 20bucks you'll see this there!)...I'm looking to put my bench up by another 5lbs in a month. Is this possible and if so, how should I do it?

A little background...I'm taking a physical assesment for a town in CT and they require that for a female of my age to bench 65% of her weight. I can do that but would like a saftey net of AT LEAST 5lbs.

Any help would be great, thanks!