Who else does Atkins or a similar low-carb diet? [Archive] - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

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dkiefner

04-16-2003, 09:41 AM

It seems to be the only diet that really works for me.

I went back on it in January, and have lost 16 lbs. I like omelets, but it sure has gotten a lot more tolerable since low carb icecream and bread became available. :D

Bill R

04-16-2003, 11:11 AM

I'm doing Atkins. It's the only diet that workls for me. I started in January have lost about 20 lbs, and my cholesterol went down 70 pts. I really like the muffins they help with the bread cravings. Yesterday I discovered that one of my favorite burger joints (In-N-Out) has a bunless "protein style". :)

jellybean40

04-16-2003, 07:49 PM

I'm doing a modified Atkins. how many grams of carb do y'all have a day? (even tho i know you get more cuz you're men)

It's working good for me. i've lost 11 pounds in about 3 weeks. i know i'd lose faster if i could stay below 20 g, but i need to do something i can stick with, hopefully for life.

I have not tried any special products, but look forward to having the low-carb beer :D I heard the Atkins brownie mix is very good. I also cant bring myself to eat pork rinds LOL. If you have any good snack ideas let me know...especially sweet ones!

I receive the Atkins on-line newsletter, and the other day they said he's doing very poorly. I dont think he's going to recover <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

dkiefner

04-16-2003, 10:55 PM

I get the newsletter too. Slow and steady is the way to do it. You do tend to lose a lot at first, but it slows down after induction.

Right now, I do about 40/day for OWL.

MESO 15

04-17-2003, 12:29 AM

What ever happen to the good old fasion exercise eating in moderation and cutting the fat.

I havn't tried the atkins thing yet... sounds crazy. :cool:

jellybean40

04-17-2003, 12:34 AM

A low-fat diet doesnt work for everyone, neither does eating smaller portions. everyone's body reacts differently to different types of eating plans.

I do exercise, but my metabolism is not the same as the next person's. by cutting carbs, i dont have to cut portions, and i can eat until i'm satisfied. to me, if you cant do that, you wont stick to any program.

jellybean40

04-17-2003, 01:09 PM

Dr. Atkins died from his head injury. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Bill R

04-17-2003, 01:15 PM

I'm doing about 30 for OWL.

FLLawdog

04-17-2003, 10:38 PM

I did Atkins for a while and lost a bunch of weight, but I got tired of the limitations when I went out to eat.

I did get into some tasty 4 egg omelets, though. Cheddar cheese and sausage...mmmm, mmmmm, mmmmm

Snack time was usually pork rinds (they started growing on me). I found that if you cover them with taco beef and cheese, they almost taste like nachos.

I went on Weight Watchers and felt great! I could eat what I wanted, but moderated. I'm now doing portion control, more water, a lot more exercise, NO SODAS (except my Diet Barq's) and Xenadrine EFX. My current weight loss pace is about 3-4 pounds a week.

Tprspouse

04-19-2003, 11:53 PM

Hubby was doing it for about 4 months and lost 10 lbs. I keep telling him he doesn't need to lose any weight and that's probably why he hasn't lost much! He's 6 foot 2 210 lbs with about 7% body fat. He's nuts.

Well, he ate carbs once or twice in the past 4 months and gained the whole 10 lbs back. Now, he's smartened up and went to the body for life program. It's a sensible eating plan which allows for carbs and proteins, but in equal amounts. And, best of all, a CHEAT DAY! Which, in my opinion is very important to maintaining some kind of diet regimen.

I lost almost 20 lbs on body for life over the past 4 months. When I go off it, I don't gain a buttload of weight back because my body is not deprived of carbs. I am eating like a pig (hormones and women problems) and haven't gained one lb. back. Of course, I'm also on my feet for 8 hrs. straight most days without much of a break. I am probably burning more calories than I think.

txinvestigator2

04-21-2003, 02:09 PM

All you Atkins people should really check your bodyfat percentages before and during your diet.

Atkins can cause a severe loss of lean muscle, and actually increase BF.

It also can cause your cholestorol to increase, so I suggest blood tests before and during.

jellybean40

04-21-2003, 02:25 PM

that might be true...i've seen lots of contradictory statistics.

i dont eat alot of high-fat meats, and i exercise with light weights. i allow myself 30-40 g of carbs every day, while still losing weight. i make sure i have fruit and veggies every day, which is something i did not do before. my diet now is wayyy healthier.

i cant go by something that tells you how much of each thing to eat at every meal. i tried the Zone and i found that this modified Atkins was way easier for me. i like knowing if i'm hungry that i can eat something satisfying as long as its low (or no) carb.

everybody has to chose whats best for them. most studies i've seen on Atkins have said you still come out healthier than when you were overweight. i dont have time to look for links right now :)

[ 04-21-2003, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: jellybean40 ]

Bill R

04-21-2003, 06:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by txinvestigator2:

It also can cause your cholestorol to increase, so I suggest blood tests before and during.<hr /></blockquote>Prior to starting Atkins my cholesterol was 317. Four months in it's now 237. I'll be testing again in 3 months. I'll be curious to see if the drop continues.

Jessica

04-23-2003, 10:45 AM

I've been cheating a lot the last few months with my diet! :mad: ...but for the most part I do really well on a low carb diet.

I have been eating low carbs for almost a year. If I would quit cheating and add a daily walk, I know I could lose more weight. (30 pounds has been my total). The biggest thing I've noticed about eating fewer carbs is my energy level is so much better. I no longer feel like I had Thanksgiving dinner every time I get up from the table.

Copper2be

04-23-2003, 01:15 PM

So what exactly does "carbs" entail.

Ron1432

04-24-2003, 09:56 AM

Did anyone see the 20/20 or 48 hours show the other night about the people going to their 25-year reunion? The have people taking different diets and monitoring the progress. So far the guy on Atkins is in the lead with 50 lbs lost followed by a guy being hypnotized with 40 lbs lost. The also had someone on Weight Watchers, Slim Fast, extreme exercise and some sort of exercise guru consultant. It was pretty interesting. They are going to follow them for a few more months up to the reunion. I would like to see how the all do and if they keep it off.

Jessica

04-24-2003, 11:06 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />So what exactly does "carbs" entail. <hr /></blockquote>I’ve had problems with my sugar since I was a child (hypoglycemic), but never really understood what was actually happening to me. By following Atkin’s diet (which has actually been around for years for diabetics…someone just gave it a name), I was able to level out the symptoms I was having. Symptoms included fatigue, depression, over-weight, sick feelings and headache if I went without food, and sugar cravings.

When I first started eating foods low in carbs my body went haywire. I was really ill for a few days so I increased my carb intake until my body adjusted. The first couple of months were really hard for me, but I soon adjusted and the cravings for carbs/sugars soon subsided.

Carbohydrates are found in almost every single thing you eat. Atkin’s diet consists of counting and limiting your intake of foods that are high in carbs. You have to concentrate on reading labels of food containers. You will soon learn what you can and cannot eat. For instance, by choosing a green salad over corn, you will cut your carbs tremendously. By choosing ranch dressing instead of french, you save even more “points.” By choosing mayonnaise over Miracle Whip, you once again have saved.

I’ve never followed Atkin’s plan exactly. He recommends an “induction” period where you are only allowed 20 carbs per day for a certain amount of time.

I simply cut all my sugar, sweets, soft drinks and bread intake. Wal-mart sells a low carb loaf of bread, buns and snacks.

There is a restaurant here in town that we eat at everyday. I’ll order the fish sandwich but with no bread and a salad. I eat that a lot for lunch. I eat whatever I want, just not the same things most people would eat. If I buy a burger, I don’t eat the fries…etc.

Check out Atkin’s site for more information: <a href="http://atkinscenter.com/" target="_blank">http://atkinscenter.com/</a>

Statistics show that people are more likely to stick to this “diet” (I like to call it a NEW WAY OF EATING) compared to any other diet plan. It has been almost a year for me and I’m still on it. (Except for those jelly beans I had at Easter. :D )

SGT Dave

05-22-2003, 03:30 PM

Well...........I'm here :(

My weight has stayed up, and my BP has stayed up, and now my doctor has ORDERED me to do the Atkins Diet, to the letter. He's also had to INCREASE my BP medicine. Part of my problem is sleep apnea, and the weight loss will help that tremendously.

I'm just sad it's came this far-I'm not sad about eating some of the stuff on the diet. I WILL miss the carbs though-I was a carb junkie.

My worst problem is a lack of willpower not to "cheat" when snacks are near, or the gang wants to go to the mexican restaurant. :( :(

Please support me in this, and I'll keep you all updated...

Stay tuned...

Chaplain Wolf

05-22-2003, 03:45 PM

Sgt Dave,

Keep it up!
I have lost 50 LBS on this diet have kept it off for about 2 years now and, I feel great!
My older brother lost 96 pnds on the Atkins, and he cheats every once in a while but he also works out allot.
one of the most important thing I have found on this diet is you absolutely must take Vitamins and FIBER these two things are very very important.

Also try to do as much exercise as possible.
not only will you look great but you will feel great to.

good luck keep us posted!

jellybean40

05-22-2003, 04:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SGT Dave:

I'm just sad it's came this far-I'm not sad about eating some of the stuff on the diet. I WILL miss the carbs though-I was a carb junkie.
......
Please support me in this, and I'll keep you all updated...

<hr /></blockquote>Hi, my name is Jill, and i'm a carbo addict <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Dont be sad Sgt... be glad you will find a new way to eat. Now and then i miss the carbs, but i feel so damn good i forget about them!

I have lost 18 lbs so far on it, and that's with some "cheating" now and then. i also call it a new way of life, because i know i will still eat pizza and rolls and crackers SOMEday, and in much moderation. I dont follow Atkins exactly, because i eat some fruit everyday, and they're high in carbs. so my weight loss is slower, but it's worth it.

if you need any tips, advice, or support, just post here or PM me.

BunnyFoo-Foo

05-22-2003, 04:47 PM

I found this one diet called the South Beach Diet, I believe. It is a phase thing that gradually weans you off the BAD carbs..the first 2 weeks is a the key...total no carbs, I think...very Atkins -like, but the thing is...our bodies get used to the carb crap we stuff it with and then we become resistant and our body does not produce the necessary things to break down the junk we put in our body, so it just sits there and travels to our gut, butt, and who knows where else. Keeping your body in a constant state of ketosis, which the Atkins diet does, is not so good in the long run..you body never learns to metabolize food how it should and as soon as youre off the diet, it's Orca city again :p
I read about this new diet in a May special edition of Prevention magazine. It has a summary of the diet that is fully detailed in the book.....looks decent...but who knows.
I cant do anything weird now .....there is one week with no dairy, one week with no carbs, one with no whatever. Until the baby is weaned, I cant do anything crazy like that; the baby will be effected, so I am stuck with a little extra fat for awhile; I am losing weight by just avoiding junk and Mini-Bunny keeps me running around...she is trying to walk lately....oh boy.
Look up the diet, if you'd like...worth a shot.

jellybean40

05-22-2003, 05:35 PM

I think the key is finding the plan that works for YOU. for me, the Atkins is the easiest...as far as "willpower," and as far as trying to figure out what to eat!

I cant be bothered with going thru phases, or weighing portions, or choosing different food at different times, etc. I have to find something i know i can stick with, and i've found it. I eat 20-30g of carbs/day, so my body is still metabolizing them. i know what foods i can and cannot eat if i want to keep losing the weight. i only add the fruit because i want to keep my body healthy.

I had bought the Zone book, and the Six-Pack diet book, and they were both so complicated that i was exhausted from the charts and the thought of changing something else every week in my diet. Some people can do that, i cant. i need easy! :)

JRT6

05-22-2003, 07:30 PM

Here's the skinny on the Atkin's diet.

Know what "ketosis" is?

That's when your body has to convert protein to carbs in your liver and kindney's so that your brain can have energy. The by product is urea (the amonia smell in urine). The brain can't use anything other than carbs therefore it's forced to convert the carbs in the absence of them. In the Atkins program one has to urinate on urea sticks to make sure they're breaking down the protein. These are the same sticks people with kidney problems have to use to know when to go to the hospital!

Atkin's has the diet user drink enough water to slosh as a way of taking the strain off the kidney's. I'm sorry but that's effed up.

During the diet one's body adapts to the no carbs by hording any that it gets, that's why when people try to go on a low/moderate carb diet they balloon up. The Atkins is not a good diet in the long run as well as dangerous.

One should learn how eat a balanced diet with a calorie consumption that is within their daily caloric use zone. Want to be able to eat more? Put some muscle on and do some cardio. There is no magic diet nor should there be as a shorcut to healthy living.

Bill R

05-22-2003, 08:59 PM

JRT6:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />During the diet one's body adapts to the no carbs by hording any that it gets, that's why when people try to go on a low/moderate carb diet they balloon up. <hr /></blockquote>Atkins is NOT a NO carb diet. It is a LOW carb diet.

JRT6

05-22-2003, 09:25 PM

Sorry Bill the original Atkin's hardcore diet is no carb and no roughage for the first week for that matter. I got the diet plan right here in front of me.

Atkin's modified the diet after taking too much heat and a few deaths of people who were on it. It's speculated the reason Atkins suddenly just passed out and fell on the sidewalk hitting his head and killing himself was due to extremely low blood sugar.

Enjoy eating Atkin's no carb foam, oops I mean bread. Your taking diet advice from a guy who ate enough vitamins to give himself a "cardiac incident" :rolleyes:

Bill R

05-22-2003, 09:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JRT6:
Enjoy eating Atkin's no carb foam, oops I mean bread. Your taking diet advice from a guy who ate enough vitamins to give himself a "cardiac incident" :rolleyes: <hr /></blockquote>I'm following the advice of my physician. Of course I should disregard my doctor's advice in favor of advice from an Ohio cop. :rolleyes:

JRT6

05-22-2003, 09:38 PM

[/qb][/QUOTE]I'm following the advice of my physician. Of course I should disregard my doctor's advice in favor of advice from an Ohio cop. :rolleyes: [/QB][/QUOTE]

Whatever fatboy, ever consider just putting the cookie down?

Bill R

05-22-2003, 09:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Whatever fatboy, ever consider just putting the cookie down?
<hr /></blockquote>You're the one that likes carbs. I'll refrain from name calling.

SGT Dave

05-22-2003, 11:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> It's speculated the reason Atkins suddenly just passed out and fell on the sidewalk hitting his head and killing himself was due to extremely low blood sugar.
<hr /></blockquote>It's not "speculated" by anyone serious-it is however being passed around as either a bad taste joke or an urban legend.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Whatever fatboy, ever consider just putting the cookie down?

<hr /></blockquote>Yeah-drop the namecalling starting YESTERDAY.

jellybean40

05-23-2003, 02:33 PM

Dr Atkins slipped on the ice.

I will also chose to follow my doctor's advice, and not someone's on a Forum.

All eating plans suggest 8 glasses of water, which is what Atkins suggests.

Credibility is lost when name-calling starts.

JRT6

05-23-2003, 02:49 PM

Bill R started the name calling with the "ohio cop" slam. He decided to make it personal when I didn't want to see the Atkins thing his way. No suprise there.

My credibility as a forum member? What's the point of being on here if none of us has crediblity. Why the Ohio cop slam from a guy who never worked a day on the job? But that's ok right Dave?

The information about the Adkin's diet was presented to me at my physical fitness specialist certification. The instructor had personal expierence with the Atkins diet and how dangerous it was. I didn't pull that information out of my ***. Atkin's falling was never reported as falling on the ice around here and I did post that what I heard was speculation. I suspect the ice thing is spin job, there's a lot of money in that diet. Of all the crap allowed on this forum... Were not talking about gossip were talking about a diet that the majority of doctors believe is dangerous. I'm being rebuked for this?

Jellybean,
If you look at the original Atkins diet he has you drinking a ton of water. The modified Atkin's has the eight glasses thing as a lot isn't needed since some varbs are allowed. I don't have a problem with a low carb diet and follow one myself now and then.

One last thing: As far as some doctors perscribing the Atkins diet? god knows medical doctors are never wrong or make mistakes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[ 05-23-2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: JRT6 ]

Bill R

05-23-2003, 03:20 PM

JRT6:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Bill R started the name calling with the "ohio cop" slam. <hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />He decided to make it personal when I didn't want to see the Atkins thing his way. <hr /></blockquote>JRT6, if being referred to as an Ohio cop offends you, I apologize.I know quite a few LEOs and none find cop offensive. Or is it Ohio? I made reference to your occupation because you brought up the issues of credibility and expertise. Both Dr. Atkins and my personal doctor are medical doctors. To me and probably most folks an MD implies more expertise on what is healthy or unhealthy than the title Officer. I am not familiar with Ohio peace officer training, perhaps it delves deeper into medicine than California's.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The information about the Adkin's diet was presented to me at my physical fitness specialist certification. <hr /></blockquote>I was unaware of this expertise. I'll still go with my doctor. And it is still a low carb diet.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />It's speculated the reason Atkins suddenly just passed out and fell on the sidewalk hitting his head and killing himself was due to extremely low blood sugar. <hr /></blockquote>Lots of things are speculated, that doesn't mean anything. Got anything to back it up?

[ 05-23-2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Bill R ]

JRT6

05-23-2003, 03:34 PM

The tone of the "Ohio cop" remark spoke loudly.

I have nothing to back the falling thing up that's why I called it speculation, it has been speculated though in the fitness world.

My information on the Atkin's diet was presented at the certification as information for one to take it. leave it, or use what part they agree with and disgard the rest.

I wouldn't have posted about the Atkin's diet and made the assertions if I didn't beleive what I said. I have nothing against the guy or anyone who has a successful way of doing something legit. The "cardiac incident due to to taking too many vitamins" was Adkin's own repsonse to having a heart attack earlier this year. You know how many vitamins you have to take to effect your heart. That speaks for itself as far as his crediblity as a doctor.

Just because your doctor perscribes something doesn't mean he is right. That's obvious. I just had to change doctors over something that bordered on mal-practice.

Do the Atkin's thing if you like it. If you take one piece of advice on this it is to get your cholesteral checked at the end of your diet. One can't eat all that read meat and not have some cholesteral change. That's what happened to the guy at the seminar, his really jumped sky high and he got kindey problems(original diet).

[ 05-23-2003, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: JRT6 ]

Bill R

05-23-2003, 03:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JRT6:
 If you take one piece of advice on this it is to get your cholesteral checked at the end of your diet. One can't eat all that read meat and not have some cholesteral change. That's what happened to the guy at the seminar, his really jumped sky high and he got kindey problems(original diet).<hr /></blockquote>My doctor and I agree on checking the cholesterol and bloodwork. My high cholesterol was the main reason he suggested the Atkins diet. Earlier in the thread I mentioned the significant drop in cholesterol I have noticed so far. I believe anyone tring to lose a significant ammount of weight should consult a doctor.

jellybean40

05-23-2003, 04:00 PM

I eat red meat about once a week, far less then most people eating an average diet, i would guess.

I didnt realize the "Ohio cop" thing was a slam :confused:

No, doctors aren't always right. i also saw a nutritionist (no, they're not always right either). no plan is perfect. i also cut back on salt and use more olive oil than butter. I just find that a modified Atkins plan can lead to better health and weight loss.

To each his own.

[ 05-23-2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: jellybean40 ]

SGT Dave

05-24-2003, 08:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Bill R started the name calling with the "ohio cop" slam. <hr /></blockquote>"Slam"? Sarcasm, maybe, but that certainly ain't a slam, in my book, and definitely isn't "namecalling" in anyone's book, if you are in LE.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He decided to make it personal when I didn't want to see the Atkins thing his way. No suprise there.

My credibility as a forum member? What's the point of being on here if none of us has crediblity.<hr /></blockquote>I didn't see it as personal at first, just a debate, albeit a little heated. SOOOO, I just went back and reread it.

I STILL don't see anything out-of-line, UNTIL the word "fatboy" was used.

The point of being here is that we all love each other...okay...SCRATCH that...we all love to converse about general and LE topics on the Internet.

Bear in mind, the fact that I said something to you isn't personal either. After reading the above I've decided that either you and I feel VASTLY different about the word "cop" or you took my announcement as personal and were just "backpedaling." At any rate, I don't see the term "Ohio cop" as a slam if you are an Ohio cop.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The information about the Adkin's diet was presented to me at my physical fitness specialist certification. The instructor had personal expierence with the Atkins diet and how dangerous it was. I didn't pull that information out of my ***. Atkin's falling was never reported as falling on the ice around here and I did post that what I heard was speculation. I suspect the ice thing is spin job, there's a lot of money in that diet. <hr /></blockquote>JRT6-

Your position on the diet is noted, and accepted. I have NO PROBLEM with your opposition to this AT ALL, but since there is two different sides to this diet, most of us will fall on one side of the fence. Maybe the instructor did, and presented a more evidence against this diet than for it.

I'm not even going to attack this-if he doesn't believe in it personally, then I would EXPECT him to present this info-I could not teach my trainees or in-service people anything I did not believe in, in my own mind.

Atkins falling on the ice was reported in all the early news stories I read, so I don't feel it was "spin"-HOWEVER, coming back a couple weeks later and suggesting that it "could have been" from low blood sugar IS "SPIN" without a doubt.

If Dr. Atkins did in fact "live" his diet, then bear this in mind: he was not overweight, so he would not have been in the "ZERO CARB" phase-that's only for the first two weeks-after that, you eat a "limited" carb intake, and that would have been plenty sufficient to maintain blood sugar.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm being rebuked for this?
<hr /></blockquote>No. You were being "rebuked" for namecalling-nothing else.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> One last thing: As far as some doctors prescribing the Atkins diet? god knows medical doctors are never wrong or make mistakes <hr /></blockquote>That's true, and I won't argue with what you posted, but I switched to my doctor several years ago because I heard so many people bragging on him and some saying that he'd cured or helped their allergies when no other doctors had. My doctor is THE BEST doctor I've ever been to, and indeed, my wife and I send him a Christmas card every year. Do you send your doctor a Christmas card? :p

Anyway...my doctor was AGAINST the Atkins diet a couple years ago, when a friend of mine tried it and it worked for him. However, it is a true statement to say that more doctors are prescribing Atkins that ever before. I was actually shocked that mine did, but he explained that it was the only "diet" he'd seen that he personally believed in to help highly overweight patients lose the weight safely, but fast enough to help them and see results.

A bit of psychology here that you might not be aware of if you're not highly overweight, and if you're a PT instructor, I'd say you are not... When you are very overweight, and possibly have low metabolism or food addictions-which I do-I won't be coy or shy about it-you MUST see results quickly at first, or you become unmotivated QUICKLLY. I've said it before to friends and family and others when this subject comes up, but I'd rather be 500 pounds that to be one of those geeks that measure out food-

"....okay...let's see...breakfast, day 1...I need 3/4 cup of fruit cocktail...NOT A CUP, but 3/4 cup...okay, knock that extra cherry off...there...okay...now I need one slice of WHEAT toast...let's go to the grocery store since I'm out of wheat and only have white...no-here's a slice...okay...now it say's one tablespoon of low sugar jam...where's that tablespoon measuring spoon at dang it...ohhhhh dang it...wait-there it is-it's still in the dishwasher because I used it to measure out my salad dressing last night..."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The Atkins diet allows me to do that, and NOT feel like a geek. My doctor WHO I TRUST WITH MY LIFE, has prescribed it. It is WORKING. As far as I'm concerned, that's all that matters.

So you have your position and I have mine and Bill R has his. We can all co-exist and debate as long as it's civil.

In my next post however, I might start warming you up with the info that the "Food Pyramid" that we've been indoctrinated to believe was given to us from "On High" by God, was actually inspired from a model used by hog farmers to best fatten their swine, AND that the Atkins people have studies that actually show that the plan does help lower cholesterol and have other benefits, other than quick weight loss. :D

And it doesn't require red meat-it just allows it. I eat red meat no more than twice a week anyway on average, and probably won't change that.

Again, I respect your position-I REALLY do, but please respect mine. This is health, not gun control <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[ 05-24-2003, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: SGT Dave ]

SGT Dave

05-24-2003, 09:02 AM

UPDATE-

I felt GREAT this morning as soon as I woke up, instead of LETHRGIC as I normally do. Normally, had I woke up at 7:45 on a Saturday that I was off, I'd feel like crap, and try to go back to sleep, only to wake up later feeling AS BAD or WORSE. I felt energized when my eyes opened. I'd forgotten what that was like!

I visited the bathroom, and then the scales. I couldn't believe it and stood there rubbing my swollen eyes

"No-that can't be right...weigh again...nope weigh again...nope...weigh AGAIN...dang...maybe it IS!"

I've lost 7 pounds in 48 hours.

:D :D :D

Life is indeed good. :D

Bill R

05-24-2003, 10:34 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SGT Dave:


I've lost 7 pounds in 48 hours.

:D :D :D

Life is indeed good. :D <hr /></blockquote>Congratulations! Hang in there. The loss will slow down but it will be persistent. With me the first week I was dragging butt while my system got use to the lower carb level. After about two months I started to get discourage because I had plateaued. Then I started getting more serious about exercise. That definitely got things moving again.

SGT Dave

05-24-2003, 01:08 PM

Just got back from walking 2 1/2 miles (with some hills in there!)

jellybean40

05-24-2003, 05:53 PM

Congrats Sgt Dave!! :D Exercise and water will help a great deal if you're really into losing FAST...

The energy is something you notice right away. i can get so much done in a day now...before i used to joke that i could sleep 12 hours at a time...not any more!

it's exciting... and always think back on your weight loss during those first two weeks, as you move along in the plan. mine has slowed down considerably, but the fact is, i'm still losing, and eating great, satisfying food.

i have bought the low-carb candy now, and the Atkins Crunchers chips. i got used to the soy taste and i love them now. i went a couple months without needing the snack replacements, but now i do. i'm going to make spinach dip and salsa dip and deviled eggs for my vacation... i'm off for a week now and was worried about wanting junk food and pizza. well, i had lost another pound this morning, so i'm motivated all over again :D

[ 05-24-2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: jellybean40 ]

SGT Dave

05-30-2003, 06:20 AM

8 days-15 pounds total loss.

JRT6

05-30-2003, 11:01 AM

Be sure your drinking enough fluids.

One pound of fat is 3,500 calories. If you base line metabolism is 3,000 calories a day or less(more likely) it should take three to four days to loose a pound of fat(hopefully not too much muscle). It would seem like your actually eating nothing and somehow sucking out calories. Most likley your loosing the water you fat cells were storing.

Bill R

05-30-2003, 12:30 PM

Way to go Dave! It is important to keep up on the water. Keep up the good work!

team green

05-30-2003, 07:05 PM

Obviously, none of here are doctors...however, how does this diet coincide with weight lifting? I am a big guy 6'1" and 230 lbs. I doubt anyone would call me fat, but I do have some extra around the middle I would like to lose. Also, I do eat ok...still, I consume a ton of carbs.

I have a long history of diabetes and cancer in my family, and am concerned that as I get older, my diet will affect my cholesterol and likelihood of developing diabetes (adult onset). However, I like working out and want to gain muscle as well. Anybody have any suggestions?

JRT6, since you are a fitness instructor, please throw in your two cents as well. I understand your position on the Atkin's diet, so I don't need that. However, I would like to hear an alternative. I use supplements including protein powder and creatine. Thanks in advance!

Don

05-31-2003, 12:15 AM

TG, Atkins will go a long way toward heading off any diabetes or heart condition that you may have a "predisposition" for. Also, with the salads and green vegies, it certainly should help with cancer prevention.

You might want to pick up the book "Dr. Atkins NEW Diet Revolution." As has been mentioned, he has relaxed some from his initial stand. It's certainly worth the read. He is quite vocal about consulting you MD before you start this, and about using supplements.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sgt. Dave, Good luck man! I'm in the same boat as far as the sleep apnea is concerned, to the point that I've been on a CPAP machine since February. It really sucks sleeping with a mask on that is pushing air into you, but at least I can get a good nights sleep for the first time in years, and I don't run my wife clear out of the house. Without the CPAP, I snore so loud that even the DOG won't stay in the same room with me! I'm hoping that I can give up the CPAP when I get back to a more normal weight.

I started Atkins about two weeks ago, when I topped 275 pounds at 5-11. I was 260 this morning, and figure I've only got another 80 to lose before I'm back where I belong. :o Anyhow, I certainly agree about having more energy than I've had in years.

I've "yo-yo'ed" for the past umpteen years, always gaining more back than I had lost. I am sincerely hoping that adopting the Atkins way will allow me to get back to a reasonable weight, while still living a more or less "normal" life as far as food is concerned. I really haven't had any trouble when eating out. I'll order an entre of what ever meat I desire, along with a nice salad.

The other thing I've been able to do, (and this amazes me) is to cut out caffeine. I've been drinking decaf coffee and tea now for about a week or so. Man that first 24 hours was the pits. Had a real bitch of a headache, to the point that I actually had some vision impairment. But after that first 24 to 36 hours, it went away, and I feel one heck of a lot better.

Being an old "desert rat" I've grown accustomed to drinking "copious quantities" of liquid. Switching from coffee and tea to ice water seems to have made one hell of a difference. I've never been a big fan of sodas, and I stopped using alcohol about six or eight months ago, so I really didn't have much problem there.

My biggest problem is not sweets, (other than ice cream and chocolate syrup,) but I've always been a BIG fan of potatoes and bread. ALL kinds of bread, and potatoes fixed every way that man has ever devised. It's been damn tough to live without these, even for this short time. But of course as I proceed with the program, I'll be able to increase carbs enough to have an occasional baker, or have the bun to go with the hamburger.

I still don

jellybean40

05-31-2003, 01:40 AM

Wow, congrats Don! and SgtDave! :D

BTW, i found new candy bars that are the best yet. Asher's...and they only have 1.3g per bar! all carbs are my downfall, mostly candy and bread tho. i have not tried the low-carb bread, but i do have a hamburger roll on occasion (the store brand are lowest), and a whole wheat soft tortilla, which i love.

i got a cookbook that has mock-mashed potatos...made with cauliflower. sounds weird but someone told me theyre great! you figure with butter and cream in them they might be OK! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

i am low on my Atkins Crunchers chips, and i called around at a couple GNC stores and they are all out of them, and they're on backorder. i think everyone's finding them ...

ProWriter

05-31-2003, 06:41 AM

Here

JRT6

05-31-2003, 01:01 PM

Pro never posts a half butt answer. :D

Team Green,
The Atkins diet in the low carb form is ok for loosing weight, I just don't like a no carb diet. The diet won't cut it when sports performance is desired.

As far a weight lifting one has to have carbs to perform. Muscle works on muscle glycogen and blood glucose which can't be stored. The fact that the blood glucose can't be stored is why people who like simple carbs like that in soda pop are always drinking it or eating candy. The simple carbs spikes the blood sugar, insuline is produced to lower it, the blood sugar goes way down which feels like crap, and one respnds to it by eating another simple carb. The yo-yo effect.

I actually like the Body for Life diet. One dosen't have to buy the book or all the over priced EAS supplements. Owning the book to have around is nice but one can always just go to the library. I follow the general frame work of the diet by eating something every three hours and having "targeted carbs". I consume carbs with a protein drink about 30 minutes before a workout and a high carb with a little protein right after a workout. If the workout had cardio I then drink another carb drink 30 minutes after the first after workout drink. I don't drink the expensive carb drinks either I drink cool-aid, tea, or whatever can be absorbed fast. Other than that I'm usually on low carb although if I want a can of pop I'll drink it. My protein is 40gms for breakfast(the drink is usually my breakfast), 20 grams three hours later, lunch, 40 grams before workout/20 after, dinner, 40 grams before bed. I'll eat a snack somewhere in there. My idea of low carb is avoiding Pepsi, candy, cookies, poptatoe chips; junk food. I still eat mashed potatoes and other regualar food. I consume about 3,500 calories or so on workout days and 3,000 on none workout days. I weigh 240lbs so I can get away with eating more.

As far as you be at risk for diabetes you have to watch your insuline response from sugar spikes. Type two diabetes is when the body produces insuline but it is ignored which is what happens when a pre-diabetic developes an insuline tolerance due to constant sugar spikes. Obviously on something like this a doctor would need to be consulted but as far as the "targeted carbs" paln I use I would lay off the high carb intake and just consume some complex carbs over a longer period of time. If your taking glucosomine and Chondrotin some studies have suggested that an insuline tolerance can be developed if not cycled. I don't buy into that yet but it has been written that taking chromium can offset the so called insuline tolerance effect.

Any pre or diabetics should get their blood sugar monitored and charted to see how their body repsonds to any diet changes. If a diet is causing an undesired affect then try another way.

[ 05-31-2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: JRT6 ]

ProWriter

05-31-2003, 04:07 PM

<img src="http://www.shorecrestfarms.com/images/WhoopieHead.jpg" alt=" - " /> :p

JRT6

05-31-2003, 04:40 PM

My comment was a compliment.

ProWriter

05-31-2003, 05:06 PM

I know Bro' I appreciated it...just figured I'd post half that *** for the humor ok?

JRT6

06-01-2003, 05:16 AM

Okay.

SGT Dave

06-05-2003, 02:33 PM

2 weeks today-20 pounds :D :D :D

jellybean40

06-05-2003, 06:00 PM

Congratulations!! :D woohooooo...

<img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/MexWave.gif" alt=" - " />

SGT Dave

06-05-2003, 11:31 PM

Thanks for the support JB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

team green

06-06-2003, 11:40 AM

Just bought the book and have read through most of it. It seems pretty understandable, and NOT a NO-carb diet, like many seem to think. Certainly, it restricts carbs, particularly during the induction. I will start it next week when I have finished the book and keep you all posted.

PelicanDriver

06-08-2003, 12:15 PM

A few years ago I had good results from "The Zone" by Dr. Barry Sears. In a nutshell, you balance the proportions of protein, carbohydrate and fat to maintain insulin levels in the proper zone, hence the name. "Good" and "bad" carbs were determined by their glycemic index. The glycemic index is a measure of how fast a food raises blood sugar. Some complex carbs like potatoes have a much higher index than others, such as lentils. His books have tables listing the glycemic indexes of most common foods.

When I ate "in the zone" I found that I lost a pound of fat a week, felt great, wasn't hungry and had cholesterol levels in the 160's. The only downsides were that you have to cook, you wind up eating a lot of vegetables (getting real full) and...umm...there's really no need to have reading material in the bathroom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

ProWriter

06-08-2003, 02:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> "Good" and "bad" carbs were determined by their glycemic index. The glycemic index is a measure of how fast a food raises blood sugar. Some complex carbs like potatoes have a much higher index than others, such as lentils. His books have tables listing the glycemic indexes of most common foods.<hr /></blockquote>The glycemic index is almost completely irrelevant compared to the importance of avoiding simple carbs and high fat foods. Insulin isn't what makes you fat ; consuming more calories than you burn and eating empty calorie (simple) carbs like high sugar junk foods and fatty foods is what makes you fat.

Insulin spikes are just another concurrent problem with high sugar snacks, (and other highly "glycemic" foods), and it's not a "good" thing health wise, but you don't get fat from insulin. Carrots, for example, are one of the highest foods on the entire Glycemic Index: carrots might be something for diabetics and pre-diabetics to concern themselves with, but you don't grow those huge love handles from eating too many carrots, even if you eat them by the bushel, OK?

<a href="http://www.nismat.org/nutricor/zone.html" target="_blank">LinkToNISMATScientificTruthAboutZoneDiet</a>

Trust me, it's going to be enough of a task for those of you unaccustomed to eating right just to learn what complex carbs are and to train yourself to avoid all those simple carbs you love for LIFE, without complicating the picture unnecessarily worrying about where a dietetically healthy sweet potato is on the "Glycemic Index" and such. :rolleyes:

On one hand, I'm happy for any positive results anybody makes, but as I explained already, they aren't really "results" unless you MAINTAIN them for life. On the other hand, for those of us who've simply been eating right for decades already and maintaining a physique we like without "dieting" or trying every new "program" that comes out, I gotta admit it's frustrating reading and hearing people who are stuck in a life-long seesaw battle with fat because they go for all these gimmicks instead of just eating right for life.

Frankly, it's just like being someone who quit smoking once and for all twenty years ago listening to a bunch of smokers all congratulating themselves for two weeks, or three months without a smoke or whatever on some new "quit smoking program", when all of them are "quitting" for their 10th or 20th time.

Atkins, Zone, and the "peanut butter only" diets all "work" if what you want to do is lose a quick 40lbs for your high school reunion or whatever. They aren't "results" if you're posting on O.com again how you lost the same 40 lbs every two years on a different weight loss "program".

Learn what complex carbs are, learn how to read food labels to identify fat sources, make complex carbs the bulk of your diet, eat as little fat as possible, stay away from stuff high in sugars, have a lean source of protein with each meal, and don't cheat. That's it, no gimmicks, no "programs". Decide once and for all whether or not you want to change your eating habits for life, and whatever you decide, enjoy your life...but stop obsessing about food and "diets" already. Eat right for LIFE or just enjoy your junk foods and be happy however fat you are...and close your eyes and spin a wheel of gimmick diet "programs" to go on for a few months anytime you want to lose weight temporarily if you don't mind increasing your overall body fat percentage each time, because that's all you're accomplishing in the long term with Atkins and the Zone Diets unless you stick to them religiously from the day you buy the book, and for the rest of your life.

[ 06-08-2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]

jellybean40

06-08-2003, 03:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ProWritingServices4LEOs:
 On the other hand, for those of us who've simply been eating right for decades already and maintaining a physique we like without "dieting" or trying every new "program" that comes out, I gotta admit it's frustrating reading and hearing people who are stuck in a life-long seesaw battle with fat because they go for all these gimmicks instead of just eating right for life.
<hr /></blockquote>I would personally rather take advice from someone who had a life-long weight problem, and then learned to lose the weight and keep it off.

Some people can eat what they want and not gain weight. I am guessing that you're not "in-shape" because of what you eat, completely...i'm guessing that genes are involved. Of course, i could be wrong...

When i eat "good carbs," it still makes me crave the bad ones. when youre a carbo addict, thats the way it is. it's like telling an alchoholic that a beer is OK, cuz it's not hard liquor.

This is all just my opinion, of course, but ive tested it out on myself. I know my ways of eating and what works for ME. i believe i can stay on the low-carb for life. low-fat i CANNOT. i never felt full or satisfied. if eating right was the only key to being thin, dont you think everyone would do it? who wants to be fat?? it's hard work for some people, and happens very slowly.

[ 06-08-2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: jellybean40 ]

ProWriter

06-08-2003, 11:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I would personally rather take advice from someone who had a life-long weight problem, and then learned to lose the weight and keep it o <hr /></blockquote>I'm sorry, but you missed the point entirely. Whether it's smoking, or alcoholism, or "dieting", take advice from someone who has SUCCEEDED, but "success" means someone who actually QUIT smoking, or QUIT drinking, or QUIT eating foods that resulted in his or her carrying too much body fat. That's totally different from taking advice from someone "quitting" smoking or drinking again, or taking diet advice from someone who was once heavy, is heavy again now, but managed to lose some weight temporarily on some ridiculous diet trend like Atkins or the Zone. Someone who loses a few (or more than a few) pounds that eventually came back is not a good source of advice about diets.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Some people can eat what they want and not gain weight. I am guessing that you're not "in-shape" because of what you eat, completely...I'm guessing that genes are involved. Of course, i could be wrong...
<hr /></blockquote>You couldn't possibly be more wrong. I do not have great genetics at all, and that's exactly 50% of why I'm the type of person from whom you can get good advice on this topic. The other 50% would be simply that I made a decision that my physique mattered enough to me to change how I ate for LIFE, and to workout enough to build and now, just to maintain it without making it such a big deal. I don't know what you look like, and this isn't meant as an insult, but this is like watching two people sitting across a table at a diner where one is ordering french fries and coke and complaining "it's all genetics and you're just lucky" to the other person who politely ordered an egg white only omelet cooked in a foil pan and not on the grill because he doesn't even want any of the grease left over on the grill from the stuff that was fried before his egg whites. I have been eating essentially fat-free and simple carb free for more than two decades and in the gym every other day or every third day since 1978, and THAT'S why I look the way I look, not because of "genetics".

Furthermore, as I already explained, when I started eating right there was no Equal, no fat free foods, no cooking spray, nor even food LABELS where all you have to do is look at the wrapper to see the fat content, etc. I had to learn to separate out egg yolks by hand, thin my own mayonnaise with water or skim milk, and I had to use a book called a nutritional almanac to look up foods and even individual ingredients in foods for their fat content, OK?

I have a very simple test for those offering others advice on losing weight: Look in the mirror and if you like what you see and you only changed your diet ONCE to achieve results and you've liked what you see in the mirror for YEARS and not just weeks or months, then go ahead, give advice. On the other hand, if you don't like what you see in the mirror, and/or you have changed your diet many more times than once, and/or you have only liked what you see in the mirror for the last year or less, then keep up the good work, but don't give other people eating advice until at least two years goes by and you still like what you see in the mirror. As you point out, someone who never had to worry about what he or she eats shouldn't give advice either, but that just isn't the case with me at all.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> When i eat "good carbs," it still makes me crave the bad ones. when you're a carbo addict, that's the way it is. it's like telling an alcoholic that a beer is OK, cuz it's not hard liquor.
<hr /></blockquote>Complex carbs don't "make you crave" simple carbs any more than water "makes you crave" alcohol or fresh air "makes you crave" nicotine. You're addicted to simple carbs and that, for about the fifth time, is the POINT. High fat diets are more satisfying, and that's why you don't crave your simple carbs. If you can stay on that for life, that's fine, but most people who lose weight on Atkins just seesaw up and down in weight their entire lives and their Atkins phase is just another temporary drop in weight that comes back within two years. Nobody says eating right is easy after a lifetime of terrible eating habits, and I'm not even saying you can't just stay fat and be happy with it. I'm only responding to all the people complaining about being heavy and trying to save you from another disappointment. In the long run, eating right is easier to maintain for life than Atkins or Zone, so just suck it up already instead of jumping on every stupid diet trend like it's finally "the ONE" that's going to work for you. Eat right if you care what you look like, and enjoy your Oreos and fries and cheesesteaks if you don't, but stop obsessing about losing weight and stop it with all these ridiculous diets and "programs".

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> i believe i can stay on the low-carb for life. low-fat i CANNOT. i never felt full or satisfied. if eating right was the only key to being thin, don't you think everyone would do it? who wants to be fat?? it's hard work for some people, and happens very slowly.
<hr /></blockquote>For about the third time now, I'm saying if you can stick to Atkins or Zone for LIFE then that's FINE. The problem is MOST people can't and for MOST people it would be easier and more effective to just scrap these weight loss programs and eat right for life. In any case, trust someone who's an expert compared to you on this topic when he tells you that nobody currently overweight and losing weight on Atkins is in any position to advise other overweight people with an issue you've hardly "conquered" yourself right now. No, nobody "wants to be fat", and nobody "wants" to die from lung cancer or alcoholism, either; but the choice is to give UP the foods that make you fatter than you want to be, and cigarettes, and booze, or suffer the consequences.

Stay away from "advice" given by anyone who is hasn't already succeeded or who is also trying a "program" to quit anything all over again, and anyone who hasn't already maintained their claimed "successes" for a few years...for the exact same reason you don't take POLICING advice from rookies fresh out of the academy or civilian police wanabe's, right? If you're still heavier than you WANABE, you should open your ears to people who've been fit and trim for the entire length of time it took you to eat yourself however many pounds you are still heavier than you wanabe. Peace.

[ 06-09-2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]

JRT6

06-09-2003, 12:38 AM

Pro is right about fat people claiming they'er fat because they have slow metabolisms and that some people can eat all they want and not gain weight.

Fact: Only one percent of obese people have a disorder genetic disorder or medical condition that other wise gives them extremely slow metabolisms. Being heavy was not advantagous on the evolutionary chain when people had to climb trees and stuff to escape preditors. One hundred extra calories a day equals over ten pounds weight gain a year. :( That's all it takes!

Fact: ALL people lose four percent of their active body cells each decade starting at age twentyfive. Some people do have higher metabolisms. Life's not fair but everyones metabolisms slow down.

"Big boned", "slow metabolism". or whatever the rationalization dosen't change the fact that people are over weight because they eat poorly and/or don't exercise effectively.

[ 06-09-2003, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: JRT6 ]

Bill R

06-09-2003, 11:13 AM

ProWritingServices4LEOs:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> For about the third time now, I'm saying if you can stick to Atkins or Zone for LIFE then that's FINE. The problem is MOST people can't and for MOST people it would be easier and more effective to just scrap these weight loss programs and eat right for life. <hr /></blockquote>I'm confused, you say that if a person sticks with Atkins it's "FINE". Then you talk about eating "right" instead. Doesn't that imply that eating Atlkins is wrong? You may have said it three times but you are contradicting yourself. What do you have to back up that "most" find your method easier? I won't argue with your success but how does that become "most people"?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Furthermore, as I already explained, when I started eating right there was no Equal, no fat free foods, no cooking spray, nor even food LABELS where all you have to do is look at the wrapper to see the fat content, etc. I had to learn to separate out egg yolks by hand, thin my own mayonnaise with water or skim milk, and I had to use a book called a nutritional almanac to look up foods and even individual ingredients in foods for their fat content, OK? <hr /></blockquote>I don't find that to be "easier" at all, that's my individual preference though.

ProWriter

06-09-2003, 07:27 PM

There's no contradiction Bill. I've already said very clearly numerous times, specifically, that IF Atkins were able to be maintained for a lifetime, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it, even thought there are reasons that it PROBABLY isn't that great for your health, and it's certainly not healthier for you than eating "right".

The main reason I'm opposed to Atkins is that so far, the evidence collected by those healthcare and nutrition experts who study these things seems to suggest that, yes, MOST (as in "more than otherwise", a "majority" of, "higher than 50%") do NOT maintain their Atkins weight loss after a year or more. If you read my earlier posts, you'll see I was very careful not to say anybody has already CONCLUDED that this is the case, and that two large, AMA peer reviewed studies are presently ongoing and are about a year from completion. Preliminary (as in "so far", "presently", "as far as we can tell by the data already")the indications are that Atkins has no higher a LONG TERM success rate than other diets.

I already mentioned that the only major study so far concluded that Atkins is not as unhealthy (that's HEALTH, not weight loss)as it seems intuitively, and it doesn't necessarily HARM you medically as some thought such high fat consumption might.

What I call "eating right" is a very radical and revolutionary concept otherwise known as JUST STOP EATING ALL THE CRAP THAT MAKES YOU OBESE IF YOU KEEP MAKING EXCUSES TO EAT IT. It's other medical name is STOP EATING LIKE A PIG AND EXERCISE ONCE IN A WHILE.

Now, I realize how extreme and over-the-top those ideas are, but for those of you courageous enough to try it, it means, essentially, STOP EATING JUNK FOODS and STOP EATING FATTY FOODS.

You guys are addicted to eating JUNK and you're clinging by the nails to any "program" that promises you that you won't have to give up one class of FOODS THAT MAKE YOU FAT if you artificially deplete your body of another type of FOOD THAT MAKES YOU FAT, and you're very resistant to someone who tries to explain that even if it could work in principle, in the long run it's JUST AS HARD as "eating right".

"Eating right" means ALMOST NEVER having any fried foods, ALMOST NEVER having cold cuts except turkey or chicken breast, ALMOST NEVER having any dairy products that aren't fat free. It means ALMOST NEVER having any kinds of cakes, cookies, dougnuts, and other junk like candy bars.

"Eating right" doesn't mean you have to be afraid of pasta, or whole grain breads or cereals or fanatically count "carbs".

"Eating right" means most of your diet should be COMPLEX carbs, with some protein in every meal, and AS LITTLE FAT AS POSSIBLE.

As someone said, eating right is "hard" and that's why so many people stay obese throughout life. All I'm saying is MOST of you are PROBABLY going to regain every pound you lose on Atkins or The Zone within two years, just like every other "diet" you hoped would work in the past.

I'm not saying "eating right" is easy, I'm saying it's really the only way to lose weight and keep it off. Listen, aside from my personal involvement with "eating right" and staying fit for the last two decades, I have considerable experience helping other people change their own lives in this regard. For what it's worth, there are really only TWO types of people I've encountered doing this for a living in the past:

There are people who listen and actually reshape their bodies "eating right" and they continue doing it FOREVER afterwards. Then there are the people who argue with me, tell me they know someone who did it another way, always ask me about every stupid late night infomercial product and every new nonsense pill, powder, potion and lotion advertised by Weider and the rest of the food supplement industry that PRAYS on your committment to every gimick and easy way around simply EATING RIGHT INSTEAD OF EATING ALL THE JUNK THAT MADE YOU FAT.

Perhaps a perfect example is that I met my wife and her brother on the same day five years ago. They share genes obviously, and they were both heavy. I sat down and explained to them at the same table what "eating right" means. He just kept asking about "andro" and "creatine" which were the latest GIMMICKS THAT DON'T WORK at that time. She listened and I took her foodshopping to teach her what "eating right" means after our first date. At that time, she was 5-2/150 and he was 5-9/220. She allowed me to explain and demonstrate at restaurants what foods and preparations were mostly fat free and which were too fatty to be on her diet if she wanted to lose weight and keep it off. She stocked her frig with all the foods I showed her are the closest replacements to the foods she used to eat that would allow her to control her weight. He bought some of the "good" foods I'd suggested...but he didn't STOP buying all the other crap. She also started going to the gym with me and let me teach her how to train, and she's been working out ever since.

She changed the way she ate completely and now eats perfectly, AND she enjoys our meals AND she doesn't miss her old way of eating, AND she feels bad for the people she's known longer than me who still eat the way she used to and LOOK THAT WAY.

If you have anything nasty or judgmental to say about this, go post another thread, but the fact of the matter is she's now exotic dancing at one of the best clubs in NYC and loves it, she's 115, and nobody there can even picture her ever being "heavy" when she tells them she once was.

Oh, my brother-in-law is still 5-9, but now he's about 265 and more recently he's asked about "Hydroxicut", "Trim Spa", "Ripped Fuel", and he still eats "Popeye's" and "White Castle", and he has that stupid electro-massage "muscle builder" and that stupid vibrating wand thing that you hold out in your hand. Lately, he's been on Atkins :rolleyes:

I've been at jobs where everybody thought I was weird for bringing my own turkey sandwiches to staff meetings instead of eating all the crap they always order for lunch, even though it was free. I felt uncomfortable ordering specially for myself when they all ate the same CRAP, so it was just easier for me to quietly eat my own food while they all ate CRAP at every meeting. Whatever my thoughts at the time about overweight people stuffing their faces with stuff I'd never touch, I never said a word because it's none of my business and not my place to tell people what they should want to look like if they don't care themselves.

Meanwhile, the people who always reacted like I was such a "fanatic" were also the very same people knocking on my office door for private nutritional advice. The breakdown was always the same: One or two people listened and lost the weight, the rest wanted to bargain about some of the foods I told them they had to give up. It's always the same, and so is the result.

Now, on O.com you see the exact same thing: a few people with a background in fitness and body building trying to help and MOST of the posts are from people who all admit to being heavy all their lives basically congratulating each other for short term weight loss and encouraging each other to ignore our advice and try the latest shortcut that PROBABLY won't work for MOST of you. We have nothing to sell you, we're trying to give you the benefit of our experience in this field. You, with zero background, experience or knowledge of the topic all sound completely closed to any well intentioned advice and either tell us we must just be genetic freaks or you cry that eating right is "too hard". I'm still trying to help, but forgive me, this gets annoying, as you can tell from the tone of my more recent posts on the topic, OK?

Do you have any studies showing how well Atkins dieters have kept weight off more than two years? Do you have any evidence that anybody has managed to MAINTAIN Atkins weight losses long term? Or just the same stories of short term "success" as for every other diet you've all tried that "worked" until (big shock), you couldn't stay on it permanently?

Atkins is probably "alright" IF AND ONLY IF you can do it religiously for LIFE. MOST of you won't be able to. What comes after that? The NEXT diet craze on the news? Is there a finite length to the list of nonsense "programs" you'll try before you finally just STOP EATING ALL THE CRAP THAT MAKES YOU FAT?

Just askin.

(shrug icon desperately needed here)

[ 06-09-2003, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]

jellybean40

06-09-2003, 10:26 PM

BillR ... check your PM's :)

Bill R

06-10-2003, 09:34 AM

Pro:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Do you have any studies showing how well Atkins dieters have kept weight off more than two years? Do you have any evidence that anybody has managed to MAINTAIN Atkins weight losses long term? Or just the same stories of short term "success" as for every other diet you've all tried that "worked" until (big shock), you couldn't stay on it permanently?
<hr /></blockquote>I know several people personally who have been on Atkins for over five years. "MOST" will not stick to ANY diet or eating plan, religion or whatever you want to call it. I won't deny your success or that of people you know. How many peole don't stick with the "eating right" plan?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Now, on O.com you see the exact same thing: a few people with a background in fitness and body building trying to help and MOST of the posts are from people who all admit to being heavy all their lives basically congratulating each other for short term weight loss and encouraging each other to ignore our advice and try the latest shortcut that PROBABLY won't work for MOST of you. <hr /></blockquote>For Dave and myself we are on the plan in accordance with Doctors orders. Can you show me ANY plan that will have lifelong success with MOST people? You can't and you know it. MOST people will eventually give up any plan at least temporarily.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> "Eating right" doesn't mean you have to be afraid of pasta, or whole grain breads or cereals or fanatically count "carbs". <hr /></blockquote>No, it means you have to fanatically count fat, calories, simple carbs. Counting carbs is easy compared to the plan you have described.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm not saying "eating right" is easy, I'm saying it's really the only way to lose weight and keep it off. <hr /></blockquote>Says you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Atkins is probably "alright" IF AND ONLY IF you can do it religiously for LIFE. <hr /></blockquote>What the heck kind of statement is that? How does your "eating right" do if you don't stick to it? Please forgive me if I attemtpt to summarize your very lengthy posts. Basically, your main criticism of Atkins has been that the weight loss does not stay if people quit the diet. As you have stated, that is true of ANY diet including your "eating right" one.

[ 06-10-2003, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Bill R ]

ProWriter

06-10-2003, 12:54 PM

OK, you're forgiven. The "difficult" program I detailed was just in response to the erroneous assumption that I've never had to watch my own diet. The point was that I was being careful to eat right way back when, even before there were any food labels or fat free foods when it was much more difficult. Nowadays, it's a lot EASIER because there's a fat free alternative to almost everything, and Equal, and detailed food labels, so there's really no excuse that eating right is "too hard".

For the 5th or 6th time now, ANY "diet" works if you keep it up for life, NO "diet" works if you don't. Atkins "works" as well as any other while you're on it, but simply has no better likelihood of permanent adherence than any other program.

"Eating right" just means a balanced diet minus all that high fat and high sugar CRAP that you food addicts just don't want to give up...and "eating right" is LESS difficult to do in the long run with modern fat free foods and labels and such.

If you look the way you want to two or three years from today then Atkins is right for you...if you don't, then maybe try eating right instead of whatever the new diet "program" is in 2005? Either way, best of luck to you, but my bet based purely on about 20 years experience with this stuff is that you'll still be a lot heavier than you want to be in 2005/2006 and you will have gained back whatever you manage to lose on Atkins. Peace.

Don

06-10-2003, 07:45 PM

Ok Pro, here IS the bottom line. You are not out of line with what you are saying, in fact it is true. But you ARE out of line with the way you are coming across.

Now you may think you are "better" than anyone else, particularly THOSE STUPID FAT PEOPLE. You may think that you know more than medical doctors do. Hell, maybe you ARE better, and maybe you DO know more.

But you really do not have to come across like you are God. Arrogance turns people off so quick that all they see is the arrogance, they don't see the message.

ProWriter

06-10-2003, 08:19 PM

Don, don't jump to conclusions from reading just my last post or two on this subject, because it takes quite a lot for me to reach that tone. I don't think I'm "better" than anybody, and I don't judge people by how fat they are or aren't. If you care to read my earlier posts on this topic I don't think you'll find anything offensive or arrogant in my tone at all.

On the other hand, hey, I'm human, and it gets pretty annoying to read arguments about nutrition from overweight people who were stuffing their faces with freetos and cheeseburgers for the last 10 or 20 years while I was learning about nutrition, putting myself through grad school doing personal training, practicing what I preach, seeing the results on people who learned from me and spending 10+ hours/week in the gym for most of that time.

I think if you're a total novice on any particular topic one should be all ears and very little mouth in conversation with someone who's an expert on the topic relative to you. I have no argument with doctors who prescribed Atkins, but trust me, doctors don't prescribe Atkins (when they do) because it's such a great program...they prescribe Atkins as a last resort for people who've already demonstrated a total lack of self control and bombed out of every other attempt at a more healthful diet.

Furthermore, it's also very irritating to respond to one person's erroneous assumption about my genetics by explaining how I've been eating well since before there were even any dietetic foods, and the lengths that one had to go back then...only to have another person pounce on that to say eating "right" sounds "more difficult" than Atkins, because they didn't read carefully enough to realize that I was talking about BEFORE modern dietetic foods became available, etc. Same goes for people who tell me I'm "contradicting" myself when they didn't read carefully enough to comprehend the careful use of the word "IF", as in "IF you can maintain Atkins for life it's ok, but IF you can't, don't be at all surprised."

The tone of my responses to argumentative overweight food addicts is probably very similar to your (deserved) tone if someone like me who's never even HELD a gun suddenly got my first firearm and started arguing about weapon performance and ballistic science with people who've been knowledgable about firearms and earning a LIVING with one on their belts for a decade or two. I don't think you'd have to feel you were "god" or "better" than me for you to have the attitude that if I just bought my first gun (or in your case, my first starter fishing rod and tackle set)last WEEK, I should just STF UP and try to LEARN from you instead of arguing a topic I know nothing about that you're an expert on relative to me. Right or wrong?

[ 06-10-2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]

Don

06-10-2003, 08:50 PM

I do not (at least normally) jump to conclusions. I've read every word that you have written in this thread.

Here is what I get out of it: Sgt. Dave lost (I think) twenty pounds, and is (very deservedly) proud of it. Other folks (including myself) are in the current process of losing weight.

What you are doing is coming across like it's no big deal, and I'm here to tell you that you DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT with this. These folks need encouragement, to continue on, and to maintain for life, not to be told how they are just going to be fatter because of it.

Now I really don't know who you are, all I know is what I have read in your posts in this and a few other threads. But the fact is that you can disagree with folks, without being rude, arrogant or condescending about it.

The point that I'm trying to get across to you, is that regardless of where a person has been in the past, it is where they are NOW and where they are going in the future that is important. I have no problem with the context of your messages, I've seen it myself too many times. I was married to a yo-yo dieter for 18 freaking years. I've seen her starve herself to get so skinny that she looked like schidt, then start binging and pig out until she was over 200 pounds. Then do it all over again. I've seen her do Weight Watchers, Slim Fast and every other kookie thing that came along. I've seen her buy various "work out" machines, which promptly became "clothes racks, taking up space."

As for myself, I've pretty much done a steady increase in weight every since high school. INCLUDING while in the academy back in the dark ages. I know that a "diet" no matter what it is will NOT work on a long term basis. It has to be an entire life style change. And that is what I am doing. I know exactly what I am doing, and what I am going to do. I have a target weight that I am going to increase the carbs at, and another that I'm going to go to a maintenance at.

When I get to maintenance, (and it may well be a year, it did not go on over night and sure as hell isn't going to come off over night,) then I will broaden out to the more relaxed regime that will carry me for the rest of my life. I've spent enough time on this earth to know what my body needs, I just have been ignoring it for too long. Well, that has changed, and will stay that way. And I DON'T need somebody looking down their nose and telling me that it's just going to make me fatter in the long run, or that I should just be happy with the way I am and forget it.

Sure, I'm touchy about being stupid enough to let myself go to the point where I have high blood pressure and am a candidate for diabetes, stroke, and heart disease. But I quit smoking in mid December, knocked off the alcohol in February, and started getting serious about weight control (I won't say dieting) in May.

So perhaps this is why the tone of your posts makes me want to tell you to STFU if you can't be encouraging.

So maybe I'm throwing my weight around here as a moderator. BUT I'M FLATLY TELLING YOU TO COOL IT WITH THE ATTITUDE.

ProWriter

06-10-2003, 09:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Here is what I get out of it: Sgt. Dave lost (I think) twenty pounds, and is (very deservedly) proud of it. Other folks (including myself) are in the current process of losing weight...What you are doing is coming across like it's no big deal..These folks need encouragement, to continue on, and to maintain for life, not to be told how they are just going to be fatter because of it. <hr /></blockquote>In case you haven't noticed, there wasn't so much as a PEEP outta me in response to anybody's post about how much weight they lost or whatever...and I did also briefly congratulate anybody for whom Atkins has worked so far in the content of my responses. On this topic, I respond only to posts that address Atkins in PRINCIPLE and I don't post anything negative in response to people merely announcing their progress. Nor do I ever attack anybody personally anywhere on this site, violate any rules of the user agreement or ever insult anybody at all for being heavy on this thread.

Furthermore, I don't think it does anybody a service to ignore the truth and give them false hope, once the topic does comes up about the principle underlying Atkins and I don't think it's helpful to "encourage" anybody falsely.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> So perhaps this is why the tone of your posts makes me want to tell you to STFU if you can't be encouraging. So maybe I'm throwing my weight around here as a moderator. BUT I'M FLATLY TELLING YOU TO COOL IT WITH THE ATTITUDE. <hr /></blockquote>You gotta be kidding me. Talk about a "god complex"...I haven't been on this site very long and I don't know whether the other moderators allow you to "throw your weight around" here just because YOU don't like my "tone" on a topic about which you're (admittedly) a little defensive. I'm not going to change my honest responses to a topic of conversation because you don't like my "tone", and being "ordered" to STFU unless I want to be "encouraging" when I completely disagree with the Atkins philosophy is absolutely ridiculous and only makes ME want to tell you to KMA ok?

I'll let the tone and content of all my posts stand for themselves and if the rest of the moderators agree with you or they want to allow you to ABUSE your moderator status instead of restricting yourself to responding with a substantive argument to anything with which you disagree, then I suppose when I try to log on tomorrow, my screen will just tell me that I'm not a registered user. I don't stay anywere I'm not wanted, but I don't let anybody bully me either.

I'll take my chances that the other moderators don't allow that kind of abuse of the moderator status. If they do, then thanks to all for the opportunity to enjoy this great site, good luck to Ron in his competition next week, and anybody who's appreciated my input on any topics is welcome to contact me via e-mail, etc. Peace.

[ 06-10-2003, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]

SGT Dave

06-10-2003, 10:34 PM

Pro, we are VERY CLEAR that you disagree with Atkins.

There's no need to explain further.

We'll try to avoid confusion by starting another thread so there's no grey area.

Here to abuse my moderator status...

dkiefner

06-10-2003, 10:43 PM

OK PWS, I'll jump in here, and say that I agree with Don.

I started this thread as a way to kick off the newly-created Health and Fitness forum. The topic is "Who else does Atkins or a similar low-carb diet?", and not "What do all of you think of the Atkins Diet?"

In your case, rather than hopping on your soapbox, the appropriate response might therefore have been "Not me".

Don is not abusing his Mod status. If he tells you to cool your jets, then he is eminently qualified to do so. Since you are not a Mod, then perhaps you should learn from him.

ProWriter

07-06-2003, 01:27 AM

Since the new administration has seen fit to unlock this thread I'd like to post the original response that I had no choice but to send as a PM last month when DK addressed me publicly on the thread after it was already closed, which I didn't think was fair:

"DK, I don't disagree with your point about the title of the thread. In fact, if anybody had responded along those lines after my first post, my only response would have been "sorry". I don't think you can as fairly raise that issue though, once people start discussing it back and forth on the thread and nobody objects or says to move it to the General Health & Fitness.

I absolutely didn't intend to jump up on a soapbox though. I think it was one of my first posts responding to Ron that I "promised" an upcoming post on Atkins, and actually, my first impulse WAS to post it on Ron's contest prep thread, until I realized (mistakenly, I guess) that it belonged much more in the Atkins thread since there was one already.

I wasn't looking to argue for "sport" or malice with any Atkins proponents and I honestly had no idea anybody would get so bent outta shape about a diet. I was actually trying NOT to respond to what definitely seemed to me like an "antagonistic" "tone" of some of the responses to mine.

Believe it or not, I was hoping the thread would get closed down a little sooner, because it was already getting nasty, but I admit, I too, have a hard time not responding when there are specific refutations to quoted portions of my posts.

Anyway, thanks for the site...I have absolutely no intentions of contributing to it negatively."