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dodgecop
03-21-2010, 03:51 PM
Which of the DPS Polygraph questions would they automatically DQ you over. And how accurate is a poly? I never took one before in 8 years of Law Enforcement so just trying to get some info. Thinking about applying soon.

dodgecop
03-21-2010, 03:57 PM
Or does anyone know anyone who was DQ during polygraph and for what reasons?

milcop88
03-21-2010, 04:17 PM
dodgecop,
Although I may not be much help because it sounds like your specifically asking for texas. I can still shed some light on polygraphs...
Sometimes they can pick up false readings. My best friend's dad who used to be a State Trooper in Oklahoma applied with Maryland State Police and got hired (he is now retired). When taking the polygraph the examiner said he showed a false reading when asked "Have you ever lived in Oklahoma?" Go figure right!?! lol
I have mixed feeling for polygraph's when trying to get hired. I have heard to many stories of people beating them, so how can you really be sure? I guess that falls in the hands of the BI.
I have heard and I'm sure you have of stories of guys failing there polygraph. Some told the truth and others have lied.

TeamHouston
03-21-2010, 05:25 PM
Which of the DPS Polygraph questions would they automatically DQ you over. And how accurate is a poly? I never took one before in 8 years of Law Enforcement so just trying to get some info. Thinking about applying soon.

I am applying for the upcoming June academy and just took my poly about 2 weeks ago, so my remarks are just what I have learned from research and talking to other guys on the forum.

Go to this link and it will give you a list of qutomatic disqualifiers :

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/trainingacademy/Trooper_Trainee/disqualifiers.htm


There is also a form that you have to fill out prior to taking the poly - HR15 and towards the end there are several pages of "have you ever" type of questions. Mainly types of drugs used, type of employee you are, etc...


From what I understand, all the polygraph administrator does is asks you the questions and determins if you are telling the truth or not. From there he will let you know on the spot if you passed or failed. As for other things that you may be worried about that are disqualifiers, that will come out during your BI and then when in your oral board you will most likely get asked about these items and then from there the board will decide to let you in or not.

Just be completely honest with the administrator and if you are concerned about something tell him before he hooks you up and you should be fine. I was a nervous wreck leading up to the test, not because I did anything wrong in my past that would DQ me, I just get nervous before taking a test, but after I get my feet wet, I am good to go and after about 10 minues of talking to the administrator we were having regular conversation and everything was good to go.

Good luck.

PS100
03-22-2010, 12:19 PM
dodgecop,
Although I may not be much help because it sounds like your specifically asking for texas. I can still shed some light on polygraphs...
Sometimes they can pick up false readings. My best friend's dad who used to be a State Trooper in Oklahoma applied with Maryland State Police and got hired (he is now retired). When taking the polygraph the examiner said he showed a false reading when asked "Have you ever lived in Oklahoma?" Go figure right!?! lol
I have mixed feeling for polygraph's when trying to get hired. I have heard to many stories of people beating them, so how can you really be sure? I guess that falls in the hands of the BI.
I have heard and I'm sure you have of stories of guys failing there polygraph. Some told the truth and others have lied.

To expand on your post about polygraphs (or "lie detectors", as those who administer them like to call them), they are around 60% effective at "detecting" lies, according to a several-year study by the National Academy of Sciences, no less.

This makes the polygraph not much better than flipping a coin. But, as Nixon said, "I don't know anything about lie detectors other than they scare the hell out of people." So they do serve the function of scaring people into spilling the beans on just about anything they have ever done.

How do polygraphs work? Simple. The examiner asks questions which you and he (or she) know the answers are true. For example, "is your name xxxxx?" You answer yes. So he looks at the graph, which measures heart rate, breathing, blood pressure, and perspiration (usually on your fingertip). This is your baseline.

Then the examiner goes into the test questions. Whenever you answer a question he looks at the graph, and if it's different than the one where you answered a known question, they assume it's a lie. Its that absurd, and that inaccurate, because everyone has a different physiology...but that's not what they would have you believe.

What they don't tell you is that there are many reasons why someone can have a reaction to a question that you have answered truthfully. For example, say you had a childhood friend that overdosed on heroin. When the examiner asks you "have you ever used heroin", and you answer the truth that you have not, you may unwillingly think about the trauma of your friend dying, at the mention of the word heroin....and that's it, the examiner will see the spike and accuse you of lying, when in fact you have been truthful. This is the inherent inaccuracy of the polygraph, which I predict will be done away with someday because of this. Some departments that I know of, for example the TX Game Wardens don't even bother with it, and focus on in-depth backgrounds instead, as it should be.

So as you can see, anyone can beat a polygraph intentionally by spiking the baseline questions (when they are asked the question, they answer thruthfully but think about something stressful) that way when they are asked if they have ever sold cocaine, and if they have, but answer no, then any spike will be compared with the baseline, which will also be high, and voila, there is no difference between the responses and the examiners assumes that the person is telling the truth. Not that experienced liars need any kind of mechanism, usually they are as cool as cucumbers and can sit there and lie through their teeth and not blink an eye. But this is why the polygraph is absolute crap.

Not only can it mistakenly dq someone who is actually answering truthfully, but it's suceptible to manipulation by those who intentionally want to deceive. It's technically useless, except as a tool of intimidation. And it does work, in that way. Usually people as so scared of the polygraph that they will admit to just about every little thing that they have done in their life, lest the "lie detector" catches them in the lie.

adeutch
03-22-2010, 05:41 PM
Usually people as so scared of the polygraph that they will admit to just about every little thing that they have done in their life, lest the "lie detector" catches them in the lie.

This was me during my polygraph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5UG7ISJfP0

meathead76
03-22-2010, 07:11 PM
I was found deceptive for criminal activity during my polygraph even though I have no criminal activity in my background, so not sure what triggered that in my poly, but I would have to agree that those things are not 100% accurate.

Adrenolize
03-23-2010, 01:59 PM
This was me during my polygraph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5UG7ISJfP0

LMFAO! That was my favorite movie growing up! :D

K9krazy21
03-23-2010, 07:29 PM
Poly's are in no way, shape or form able to tell if a person is lying.. I have taken 3 and in every dang one of them it showed deception on the control questions. Hell, 1 of the questions was my place of birth.

I was a believer until I took mine!!!

A truthful person has a 60% chance of showing deception on a poly. There are also ways to keep your body functions in check so the machine shows no reaction to the question.

Pure hogwash!!!

Now as an interrogation tool, I have seen them work!!!

adeutch
03-24-2010, 11:02 AM
I don't know if all departments do their's this way, but on mine the polygrapher asked me the same set of questions 3 times. Afterward he told me I showed deception on some of the questions on some of the rounds and asked me if I would care to explain.
The first one was "Have you ever sold drugs?" I truthfully told him "no" and my explanation was that I once sublet my apartment during the summer and the dude sold drugs out of it, so people kept stopping by after I moved back in looking to score weed.
The next one was "Have you ever committed a sex crime?" Again, I answered "no." When he asked me why it might indicate deception, I was speechless. I'm guessing he was just trying to see what he could get out of me, but it made me pretty uncomfortable at the time. I literally could not think of any reason I would have shown deception on that one. I've never even known someone who committed a sex crime.

K9krazy21
03-24-2010, 08:11 PM
[QUOTE=adeutch;2276698 I literally could not think of any reason I would have shown deception on that one. I've never even known someone who committed a sex crime.[/QUOTE]

BECAUSE THERE B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!

PS100
03-25-2010, 02:09 AM
I am sure at some point there will be a class-action lawsuit that will go all the way up to the supreme court and eventually abolish polygraphs as a condition of employment. I know a few years ago there was a lawsuit by an FBI applicant, but it was not able to prevail in appellate court (I think, can't remember the details). But it will happen, someday. I do know that already some departments do not consider failure to pass a polygraph an automatic disqualifier, but rather they just add it to the file for a final review, when they then take it into overall consideration. But for now most departments still require "passing" a polygraph.

PS100
03-25-2010, 03:03 AM
double post, disregard.

adeutch
03-25-2010, 12:55 PM
I am sure at some point there will be a class-action lawsuit that will go all the way up to the supreme court and eventually abolish polygraphs as a condition of employment. I know a few years ago there was a lawsuit by an FBI applicant, but it was not able to prevail in appellate court (I think, can't remember the details). But it will happen, someday. I do know that already some departments do not consider failure to pass a polygraph an automatic disqualifier, but rather they just add it to the file for a final review, when they then take it into overall consideration. But for now most departments still require "passing" a polygraph.

I'm sure some attorney more clever than myself could craft an argument as to how polygraphs are illegal or unconstitutional, but I really can't think of one just off the top of my head. By DQing people for "failing" a polygraph you might be DQing qualified applicants, but I don't think you are violating their rights. Plus, they could always say that the polygraph was not the deciding factor.
The only way I could really see a serious court case coming of it would be if an applicant alleged that the polygraph DQ was a guise for racial discrimination or something similar.

mwinniford
04-24-2010, 04:13 AM
"Good morning Mr. Winniford;

You did not pass the polygraph test."

was the exact email response i got from Texas DPS recruiting in november when i asked why i was not hired! i beleive in my case it was an out for not being legally able to discriminate against "those little things", a simple way to "cut fat". i have a full sleeve of tats on my lower left arm for example.
i was told my results could not be read over the phone. i was told that if i failed they would have told me right then. i was told that it does not always DQ applicants, i really dont care anymore.

they could have told me a million reasons why they didnt hire me. but i do not buy that. i felt violated walking out of that polygraph room, but i did not lie. the trick is this. they want to see if you will fold under pressure, whats that dirty little secret you havent said. thats what the examiner wants, they want to butter you up, force you to lie, or confess. its a integrity check all the way.

bell4fan
04-24-2010, 02:29 PM
The poly is the biggest waste of time and money the Dept has. Its a joke all the way. I had to take 2 of em for some reason. The poly has DQ'ed alot of otherwise very good quality individuals.

Carl
04-24-2010, 07:46 PM
When I got done with my poly, the examiner came out and told me the specific question that concerned him.

The question was "have you ever dealt drugs?" I answered no but told him I witnessed it many times, which led to the strange reading I guess.

He asked me why I felt this way and I told him, "either you are a part of the problem or part of the solution, and by me witnessing it, I am part of the problem"

He then asked me again "have you ever dealt drugs?" :D I told him no, and here I am.

iamacop
04-24-2010, 10:08 PM
When I got done with my poly, the examiner came out and told me the specific question that concerned him.

The question was "have you ever dealt drugs?" I answered no but told him I witnessed it many times, which led to the strange reading I guess.

He asked me why I felt this way and I told him, "either you are a part of the problem or part of the solution, and by me witnessing it, I am part of the problem"

He then asked me again "have you ever dealt drugs?" :D I told him no, and here I am.

Well......did you??? I kid, I kid. :)

dodgecop
04-25-2010, 01:19 PM
Well I went and took my Poly last week and other than the standard questions is your name so and so, are the lights on in room etc. I was only asked two questions from the whole background and poly booklet I had to fill out (HR=39). And those where have I ever did any illegal drugs and have I ever committed family violence and nothing else! I passed with ease but why only two questions asked? I know a friend they asked like 20 questions.

KB8315
04-28-2010, 01:26 PM
Poly's cannot determine if you are not telling the truth. When I took mine, I found a black spot on the wall. I focused all my attention on the black spot and answered the questions. The poly examiner is the one who determines deception, not the machine. Ive had people tell me they lied there arses off and passed with flying colors.

txbandit
04-30-2010, 12:53 PM
I'll add my 2 cents to this thread.

When I was in Austin for my conditional last Nov, I took the poly. The one question I had trouble with was my drug usage. Not because I still smoke pot, but because I did 20 years ago in High School. The first time he asked if I was being truthful about my drug usage, I answered yes. I wasn't too nervous are bothered by it, but according to the examiner, I was. I had to go through 3 series of questions before ending it. He told me I was still showing irregularies. He took me into the recruiting office, told me to wait until he checked with the LT and then told me I could continue on.

3 weeks later DPS called and told me I was DQ's because of my Pysch results. When I told the LT that was not possible because the Pysch exmanier told me I was good to go and wished me luck. The Lt said she would call me back. An hour later she said, "no, it was your POLY you failed." I again told her that was not possible as well because I was told that I could continue.

I know why I was DQ'd. It was because of the back injury I listed on the sheet at beginning of conditonal. I found out later that the medical office in Austin was calling my Dr. for 2 weeks after my conditional discussing my the status of a back injury I had 2 years prior. (bulged disk I had that last 3 days with no further problems since)

Do I think it's *****ty the way DPS handled my application prosses, yes. And because they aren't allowing my TDCJ experience anymore, I have to complete 17hrs of college be I can try again.

landin18
05-12-2010, 08:00 PM
Damn i got a poly in 2 weeks, wish me luck!

L27Buick
05-13-2010, 09:21 PM
when i took my poly the 2nd time(over 6 month since last taken) i also focused on a spot on the wall and i pass it again.

landin18 good luck

TeamHouston
05-13-2010, 10:23 PM
Damn i got a poly in 2 weeks, wish me luck!

Are you applying for the 7 week academy or are you going for the new and improved 18 week academy?