Need feedback on course idea, please

[Sparky]

Okay...I'm up late at night thinking. (This always gets me in trouble.)

I've been burning the midnight oil working on some training outlines. Most of the training I do is investigations related. I tend to follow the other lemmings, I supose, and break my training down into small focus topics.

However...

Several people have suggested the need for a week long course in Basic Investigations. Something pretty hands-on and practical that would be targeted at new investigators. A course that would give them the basic skills to work general investigations alongside more experienced investigators and would also serve as sort of a "primer" before they can attend more specific and advanced schools.

This makes sense to me, as I recall that when Sparky was a new Detective, it took a couple of years for the department to get slots and approved funding for me and other investigators to go to schools. Our department, like most small to medium sized departments, didn't conduct much interdepartmental training for investigators. My former department was great about sending us to schools when they could afford it, but there was still a pretty big time element to the learning curve. I was pretty lucky and had worked as a Detective with a large agency before and had been able to work and learn from some really experienced people. I had a pretty decent handle (I think) on the basics, but alot of those schools really "kicked it up a notch".

So just from my own experience, I thought that it might be a good idea. I checked around to see if there was anything like that out there, but couldn't find many training opportunties that were targeted at entry level basic investigations.

I thought that there must surely be some reason for this, most probably lack of interest. Yet, I keep hearing the same suggestion, "How about a good week long course for Basic Investigations?"

How say you folks? Do you see a need for this? Or not?

If this type of class became available, what type of thing do you think it should cover?

Assuming that it was a decent sounding, practical course, how much do you think departments would pay?

A week long course takes a whole butt load of work and would carry a course fee at least a few hundred dollars or so. Then there would be travel and hotel on top of salary. I'm thinking that for that kind of dough, departments would be likely to pass on it preferring to spend the money on the fancy advanced stuff.

Any thoughts or ideas?? I'm trying to find the negative. Thanks!

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-Sparky

[Niteshift]

Sparky,

Try contacting the Indianapolis PD. I remember reading an article in one of the trade magazines several years ago outlining their 2 week course for new detectives. It sounded pretty interesting and like a good approach. It would probably give you a better focus on what to try to put into a shorter course.

There are a couple of national training outlets, like IPTM, that have basic investigations courses. They usually charge around $525 for a one week course (40 hrs). I know at that kind of price, a lot of smaller depts. would balk.

Let me throw an idea at you: Have you considered doing it as modular training? Breaking the topics down into smaller blocks might help either cash or manpower strapped depts. You might come out ahead in the long run too, if the smaller blocks end up bringing in more in terms of tuition than the single one week deal.

Another thing that a few of the bigger outfits seem to do a lot is the contract training. They agree to pay you to teach the course for a flat fee and the host agency can then charge whatever they want to offset the cost of bringing you in. Say you charge $2000 for the week and they bring in 20 students at $100 a head, breaking even. If they charge $150 a head, they turn a profit for playing host. You and the agency get some jack in your pocket and the students still get reasonably priced training.

Just an idea.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[Sparky]

Nite:

Thanks for the well though out reply. I appreciate the tip about Indianapolis PD. I may contact them to see if I can finagle a course outline. I have a rough idea about what to include, pretty much basing it on what I consider basic skills that apply to a wide range of investigations. (Vic and wit interview, photography, crime scene, interrogation, case management. etc.) I also want to include basic investigative considerations for common stuff like burglary, robber, rape, and death investigations.

IPTM was about the only place I could think of that offered a basic investigations course on a regular basis. I felt their course fees were always reasonable. What kept us from being able to go to many of them was the travel and hotel expenses. I was hoping to have a little bit lower course fee to help offset that cost.

Thanks for the idea about breaking it up into smaller blocks! Actually, I was already planning on trying to do that as this type of course would lend itself to that pretty easilly I think. The big advantage to that really comes in being able to give the shorter blocks fairly regularly. I am working on being able to do that along with a 'hosting' agency in my area. I am waiting until after the holidays to contact the local community college about stuff at night and on weekends as well. I think a Crime Scene and Photography course will lend itself to this type of format very well.

The state academy asked me about putting together a week long course to be approved by the Min. Standards Board as a certified course and wanted me to be able to teach it at the academy every now and then too.

About the contract training...I have already drawn up agreements for both "agency host" and "agency sponser". In hosting, a dept. may send one or two of their officers for free for every one or two officers that they sign up to pay a course fee. This is in exchange for providing the place, scheduling slots, and advertising, as well as providing copies for handouts. In sponsoring training, they would simply pay me a fee to hold the training at their location and they could either charge other officers or not.

If and when I put this Investigations 101 class together, I will probably end up teaching it at the academy maybe once a year. I am pretty much looking at this as gratis since my boss would probably okay me to stay on salary for the week that I was there. (we'll have to see) Plus, I would hate charging the folks at the academy.

However, I would like to put this course together and offer it privately. I would get a special rate with a hotel that has facilities to support training and advertise the course. For a forty hour course, I would have to take vacation. So I could only do it twice a year at the most. I am also planning several one day outlines that I could give on Saturdays.

You've pretty much seen the evolvement of this...You know I want to give good training and fill some niches that aren't filled...and I want to conduct training in such a way as to include as many people as possible. I'm not completely money hungry...but...some recent changes have jiggled my priorities. Baby due in February, wife will stay home with the baby...Sparky needs the money!! Baby needs a new pair of shoes, diapers, food, heat, etc.

Instead of spending my weekends playing security guard, I'd rather be teaching and making the same, if not more, money; in addition to getting more experience in conducting training, which helps me as well.

Anyway..thanks for the feedback. It really helps. http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



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-Sparky

[WYTAC]

Sparky,

Sorry on this one, investigations are not my strong suit. I still like to sweat and get dirty....LOL. Good luck!!

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Keep Low, Stay Safe,
Max

[Sparky]

Dirty? You haven't seen dirty until [extemely gross crime scene story deleted in respect to our more sensitive visitors].

So there! http://www.officer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

That's okay WYTAC...I'm knockin' around an idea for a tactical course too!

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-Sparky

[Don]

Sparky,

This sounds like a good idea. Particularly breaking it down into modules. I can tell you from personal experience that deputies, particularly resident deputies in poor, rural counties wind up either not getting the training, or taking vacation time and paying for it out of their own pockets.

Basic investigator

[WYTAC]

___________________________________________
"That's okay WYTAC...I'm knockin' around an idea for a tactical course too!"
____________________________________________

Sparky,

Now you are talking my language!!! http://www.officer.com/ubb/cool.gif



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Keep Low, Stay Safe,
Max

[JKT]

Sparky, the modular idea is great! Especially as Don said, the one s that need the training the most are usually the ones that can't get the time off to attend a week-long school. Been there, done that. But a one, maybe two day school is doable usually. I think most larger hotel/motel chains would be willing to work with you on rates, etc.
I'll check with our academy and see if I can come up with some course outlines. I know I have one around here somewhere on Crime Scene Photography (it's pretty lenghty, and pretty basic though).


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Optimistic pessimist: Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

Jack

[Sparky]

Thanks for the input guys! It really helps!

I'm thinking about getting with a local community college to maybe offer, (for example) a photography course cut down into, maybe, two hour blocks offered one night a week for a month.

If they'll let me just use the space, I can take care of the rest. I thought this would make it easier for guys to attend since they wouldn't have to take a day or to off from any of their jobs. (plural)

Sort of a LE continuing education program. No college credit, but would count with the departements. Plus it would be practical stuff and not the History of Police 101 BS you get in Criminal Justice class.

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-Sparky

[Niteshift]

Hey sparky,

Another place to try to steal.....um, I mean borrow, some lesson plans from might be the Miami-Dade PD. They run a training center that offers a lot of the same kinds of courses you're talking about, including crime scene, photography, investigations etc.

A cool idea you might want to lift from them is they have a deal where you take a certain set of courses from either the investigation track or the operations track and it leads to a certificate, like an expert certificate or something. I have their info laying around somewhere.

If you're interested, let me know. I'll give you an email address to one of the guys I sort of know down there.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[Sparky]

Thanks Nite...but I think I already have a pretty good idea of what I may cover. If it's no trouble then I'll take what you got, but don't go out or anything.

I have a few outlines from previous training and quite a few textbooks to get some ideas from.

My thoughts were that "Basic Invest." course were either too basic, or did not cover enough actual skill sets.

Seems like there's a recognized need for the course and the suggestions were pretty much in line with what I was thinking.

As it is, I will probably integrate several skill sets that can be given as individual modules. Photography, Crime Scene Processing, Vic. and Wit. Interview, and maybe Suspect Interrogation. These would all be hands on courses with practicals and simulations and lend themselves to being broken up.

For the 40 hour course, I would pull all of it together and integrate it with Case File Management and cover concerns and strategies for various types of crime such as Burglary, Robbery, Theft, False Pretenses and Cheats, Death Inv., Rape, and Child Abuse.

For the week course, I organize by types of crime and the skill sets are presented in context of the various types of investigation. Example: I would cover Burglary and include Basic Crime Scene and Photography; Robery includes Vic and Wit Interview, Theft includes Organization and Intel, Death, Rape, and C/A ties everything up using all of those skills plus additional concerns and considerations.

Any suggestions??

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-Sparky

[John from Maryland]

I'm jumping in here late, but I do think there is a huge market for decent investigative courses. Many seem to drift off the mark and not provide the skills a detective (or a patrol officer working cases) needs to conduct follow-ups.

How to access different databases, what information a cellular or pager company can provide, what probation/parole can do to assist you---skills like these are lacking in many investigative courses. Many of the classes focus on either forensics or interview/interrogation. Those are both vitally important, but only part of what investigations is all about.

Good luck and be safe.

[Niteshift]

John,

That sounds like a good idea for a seperate module. I think it would be nice to pull it out from the others since it could be expanded more that way. Also, if it involves the web, you know the info would change more than normal. That would save having to reprint more classroom material with updated info.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[Sparky]

See? That's why I love you guys!!

That is an EXCELLENT idea!! I had not thought of that, but it is a very good
suggestion.

In fact, one of the things that I spend alot of time doing as a DA Investigator is working on subpoena duces tecums for information that LE could've gotten early on. Investigators often call and request our assistance on this type of stuff, so I really should've already seen the need.

I can fit this in nicely to the Intelligence portion.

(Just to pass it on..one of the best resources I know of on telephone SDT's is 1-800-LAWBUST. You have to be LE but if you give them the number, they will give you the carrier and subpoena compliance info. SAVES LOTS TIME!!)

I can also go into how to subpoena phone records, pagers, and cover a little on the internet.

There's alot out there onth net..I had a course that spent a while day just on that!!

I probably won't get THAT in depth, but I can sure pass on a few sites that I find helpfull.

GREAT IDEA!! Thanks, and keep 'em coming!!

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-Sparky