Kullyfohrnya bulk ammo sales to be curbed???

[Kieth M.]

I had an e-mail exchange with another LAPD retiree saying that the (hand-wringing, let's-punish-the-innocent- so-the-guilty-don't-feel-bad-about-themselves, beard-stroking, overprotective, pannicky, nanny-state) CA legislators are looking to limit ammo sales to just 50 rounds per transaction?

Is he correct, or is his tinfoil hat too tight?:confused:

[yellowreef]

There is some sort of state bill being concocted, and a petition agaisnt it going around in gun stores. I don't know all the particulars but there is something in there about having to register to buy ammo, and about limiting quantities. This is of course a way of eliminating internet and mail order (read "bulk") sales, and subjecting us to being ripped off by the few gun stores that won't go out of business with all these damn restrictions CA comes up with.

[FJDave]

It also makes ANY shipping of ANY AMOUNT of ammo from ANYWHERE illegal. So you can't just buy ammo on the internet anymore.

[DAL]

AB 962 has passed the Assembly and is awaiting a vote on the Senate floor.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_cfa_20090601_202837_asm_floor.html

SUMMARY : Requires, commencing July 1, 2010, that any person
that sells or transfers more than 50 rounds of handgun
ammunition in any month to register as a handgun ammunition
vendor. Specifically, this bill :

1)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, no person shall sell or
transfer ownership of more than 50 rounds of handgun
ammunition in any month unless the person is licensed by the
Department of Justice (DOJ) as a licensed handgun ammunition
vendor, as specified.

2)Exempts the sale and transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition by manufacturers or wholesalers to licensed
vendors.

3)Exempts sales or transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition
made by an authorized law enforcement representative of a
federal, state or local agency to a peace officer authorized
to carry a handgun in the course and scope of his or her
duties.

4)Exempts the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition to representatives of a federal, state, or local
agency, if written authorization by the head of the agency
authorizing the transaction, is presented to the vendor of
handgun ammunition.

5)Exempts the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition state and local entities in which the entity is
acquiring the ammunition as part of an authorized program in
which the entity is buying or receiving ammunition from
private individuals.

6)Exempts the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition between immediate family members, spouses, or
registered domestic partners.

7)Provides that a violation of provisions relating to the sale
and transfer of handgun ammunition is a misdemeanor.

8)Authorizes the DOJ to issue handgun ammunition vendor
licenses.

9)Provides that no ammunition handgun vendor license may be
issued to an applicant who fails to provide a copy of any
required local business license, a seller's permit, a federal
firearms license if the person is federally licensed, and a
certificate of eligibility (COE). The handgun ammunition
vendor's license shall be issued for a specific physical
location where the sale or transfer of ownership of handgun
ammunition is to be conducted.

10)Requires the DOJ to inform applicants who are denied licenses
of the reason for the denial in writing.

11)Requires the handgun ammunition vendor license to be issued
in a form prescribed by the Attorney General (AG) and shall be
valid for a period of one year, and authorizes the AG to adopt
regulations to administer application procedures and
procedures for licensees

12)Allows the DOJ to charge handgun ammunition vendors license
applicants a fee sufficient for the costs or reimbursing the
DOJ for the cost of administering the handgun license program,
maintaining the registry of handgun ammunition vendors, and
necessary regulatory functions, including enforcement,
provided that the fee shall not exceed $50.

13)Requires the DOJ to issue licenses for the following
applicants:

a) State-licensed firearms dealers;

b) Federally licensed firearms dealers;

c) A target facility which holds a business or regulatory
license;

d) Gunsmiths;

e) Wholesalers; and,

f) Manufacturers or importers of firearms, as specified.

14)Requires the DOJ to keep a centralized registry of all
persons, businesses, and corporations who are vendors, and
provides that no vendor shall transfer ownership of handgun
ammunition pursuant to their licenses unless the vendor is on
the centralized registry.

15)Allows the DOJ to remove any vendor from the registry who
violates any provisions relating to the transfer and sale of
handgun ammunition.

16)Provides that the license of any vendor that violates
provisions relating to the sale or transfer of ammunition
three times shall be permanently revoked, and notice of the
revocation shall be provided to local law enforcement and
licensing authorities in the jurisdiction where the vendor's
business is located.

17)States that information contained in the centralized registry
of handgun ammunition vendors shall be made available for law
enforcement purposes, or when the information is requested for
the purpose of determining the validity of handgun ammunition
deliveries or transfers

18)Provides that a handgun ammunition vendor shall comply with
all of the following conditions, requirements and
prohibitions:

a) A vendor shall not permit an employee who is prohibited
from possessing a firearm, or has been assessed as a danger
to his or her self or others, to handle, sell, or deliver
ammunition in the scope of his or her employment;

b) Requires an employee of a vendor, who becomes an
employee after July 1, 2010, and who handles, sell or
transfers handgun ammunition, to provide to the vendor a
certificate of eligibility obtained from the DOJ and the
request must be made within 45 days of employing the
individual; and,

c) Requires an employee of a vendor who becomes an employee
on or before July 1, 2010 and who handles, sells, or
delivers handgun ammunition to provide to the vendor a COE
obtained from the DOJ no later than August 15, 2010.

17)Commencing July 1, 2010, a vendor of handgun ammunition shall
not sell or transfer ownership of any handgun ammunition in a
manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a
purchaser without the assistance of the vendor or employee
thereof.

18)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, a vendor of handgun
ammunition shall not sell or transfer handgun ammunition
without at the time of purchase legibly recording the
following information on a form prescribed by the DOJ:

a) The date of the transaction;

b) The transferee's driver's license or other
identification number and the state in which it was issued;

c) The brand, type, and amount of ammunition transferred;

d) The purchaser or transferee's signature;

e) The name of the salesperson who processed the sale or
transaction;

f) The right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee on
the prescribed form;

g) The purchaser's or transferee's full residential address
and telephone number; and,

h) The purchaser's or transferee's date of birth.

19)Commencing July 1, 2010, the records of the sale or transfer
of handgun ammunition shall be maintained on the premises of
the vendor for at least five years from the date of the
recorded transfer.

20)Commencing July 1, 2010, the handgun ammunition vendor's
records of sale shall be subject to inspection by specified
peace officers engaged in an investigation where the records
may be relevant, is seeking information about prohibited
persons, or is engaged in ensuring compliance with laws
relating to firearms or ammunition.

21)Commencing July 1, 2010, a handgun ammunition vendor shall
not knowingly make a false entry in, fail to make a required
entry in, fail to obtain the required thumbprint, or otherwise
fail to maintain the records of handgun ammunition transfers
or sales.

22)Commencing July 1, 2010, no vendor shall refuse to permit
specified peace officers to examine any record related to the
transfer or sale of handgun ammunition, or refuse to permit
the use of these record by those persons.

23)Exempts from providing specified information at the time of
purchase or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition by
licensed handgun ammunition vendors to any of the following
who are properly identified in a manner prescribed by the DOJ:

a) A licensed firearms dealers;

b) A licensed handgun ammunition vendor;

c) A federally licensed firearms dealer;

d) A target facility which holds a business or regulatory
license;

e) Gunsmiths;

f) Wholesalers;

g) Manufacturers or importers of firearms, as specified;

h) Sales or transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition
made to authorized law enforcement representatives if
written authorization from the employing the agency is
presented to the person from whom the purchase is being
made; and,

i) Sales or transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition by
licensed handgun ammunition vendors to sworn peace
officers, as specified.

24)Provides that specified violations relating to the
maintenance of records of handgun ammunition transfers or
sales shall be punished as a misdemeanor.

25)Makes it a misdemeanor for any person who is subject to an
injunction for being a member of a criminal street gang to
own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any
ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

26)Provides that a sale of any ammunition by a person,
corporation or firm to a person prohibited from owning or
possessing ammunition, or to a person he or she reasonably
should know is a prohibited person, is punishable by up to one
year in the county jail, by a fine not to exceed $1,000, or
both.

27)Provides that commencing July 1, 2010, the sale or transfer
of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the seller or transferor being provided with
bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser, and a
violation of this provision is a misdemeanor.

28)Defines "bona fide evidence of identity" as a document issued
by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or
agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle
operator's license, California state identification card,
identification card issued to a member of the armed forces, or
other form of identification that bears the name, date of
birth, description, and picture of the person.

29)Defines "handgun ammunition" as ammunition principally for
concealed upon the person, as defined, notwithstanding that
the ammunition may also be used in some rifles, but excluding
ammunition intended to be used in antique firearms. Handgun
ammunition does not include blanks used in prop weapons.

30)Provides that the face-to-face requirement shall not apply to
the delivery of ammunition to law enforcement agencies, sworn
peace officers, importers and manufacturers of firearms,
licensed ammunition vendors, licensed firearms dealers or
collectors, and consultant evaluators as specified.

FISCAL EFFECT : According to the Assembly Appropriations
Committee, DOJ projects start-up costs of about $700,000, with
ongoing costs of $60,000 for seven positions. DOJ indicates
these costs would eventually be covered by the $50 fee and
employer payments to DOJ for the cost of the COEs.

COMMENTS : According to the author, "AB 962 the Protection Act of
2009 seeks to safeguard California's communities by combating
the easy accessibility to handgun ammunition that fuels gun
violence and criminal activity."

[FJDave]

Ugh.........

[0341]

COMMENTS : According to the author, "AB 962 the Protection Act of
2009 seeks to safeguard California's communities by combating
the easy accessibility to handgun ammunition that fuels gun
violence and criminal activity."

Because criminals who obtain firearms illegally will always obtain the ammo legally. :eek: :rolleyes:

[yellowreef]

Get ready for another super ammo shortage throughout CA...

[avalon42]

What about those of us who self-sponsor(ed) through a POST academy? We don't qualify for LE status, as we are not affiliated with an agency...AND we are required to have all of our ammo DAY 1 of the academy. We just have to buy it every day, 1 box at a time?

This is beyond ridiculous.

[SHU]

I better go to walmart in the morning and stock up bigtime.

[Kieth M.]

Sooooooo, glad I left CA for CO.

BTW - Will the last one out, please lower and take the American flag with them.

[Retired96]

Glad I reload all my own ammo, but finding reloading supplies is darn near impossible. I have been waiting for 9 months to buy primers. Thankfully I have over 10,000 rounds already loaded.

[SgtCHP]

Get ready for another super ammo shortage throughout CA...

It is already here! And, it is not going to get any better. A POTUS who is anti-gun; a USAG who is anti-gun; and, the Nancy Pelosi followers who are in power in Sacto.

We need a major PRO 2nd Amendment movement and close association with the NRA in CA to help overturn those idiots.

[Kieth M.]

I better go to walmart in the morning and stock up bigtime.

More often than not, the shelves are already bare...unless you're a big fan of .25 auto!

[SoCalSheriff]

More often than not, the shelves are already bare...unless you're a big fan of .25 auto!

Which, coincidentally, is the caliber of choice for many of the "thug guns" I have recovered....:rolleyes:

[08duramax]

Lately I've been ordering from several vendors online. I haven't experienced any shortages.

Which vendors. I can't find any in stock anywhere. I need to get some for the academy. Thanks for any help. You can pm me if you prefer.

[yellowreef]

It is already here! And, it is not going to get any better. A POTUS who is anti-gun; a USAG who is anti-gun; and, the Nancy Pelosi followers who are in power in Sacto.

We need a major PRO 2nd Amendment movement and close association with the NRA in CA to help overturn those idiots.

Believe it or not, the shortage has been easing off for several months now. And ammo is more readily available on the internet too. I guess the conspiracy nuts got their fill after buying up every single piece of ammo in the supply chain. It's been a while since I have walked into a gun shop with 100% empty shelves.

As far as the CA gun laws, it doesn't matter who is in power at the national level. CA has been anti-gun for a long long time, before anyone had even heard of Obama. I agree something needs to be done, and we already have such a movement, the Calguns Foundation (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/).

[FJDave]

Well, get your ammo while you can. If the law passes, you get just 1 box a month unless you are LICENSED. That means more tax, BTW....I wonder if that license is tax deductible since I gotta buy ammo to practice with for the job....

[yellowreef]

Well, get your ammo while you can. If the law passes, you get just 1 box a month unless you are LICENSED.

The 50 rounds is what you can sell or transfer without a license, not what you can buy. You can buy more ammo, but they will fill out a form with all your information just like when you buy a firearm.

[DAL]

I think that the disappearance of shooting ranges is a bigger problem than potential restrictions on ammo purchases.

[SgtCHP]

I think that the disappearance of shooting ranges is a bigger problem than potential restrictions on ammo purchases.

Prado Sport Shooting Range is still open. San Gabriel Canyon will reopen when the fire danger abates. Lytle Creek should be open. There are thousands of miles of OPEN desert to go out to and explore the effects of "plinking."

[SHU]

More often than not, the shelves are already bare...unless you're a big fan of .25 auto!

Many are but their are a few in San Diego that have 40 cal on certain days of the week if you go early in the morning on those days. By 5pm they are sold out. So if you you know when, where and what time to go to a certain Walmart in San Diego, FMJ can be found at a good price.

[DAL]

Prado Sport Shooting Range is still open. San Gabriel Canyon will reopen when the fire danger abates. Lytle Creek should be open. There are thousands of miles of OPEN desert to go out to and explore the effects of "plinking."

These are not close, and sometimes are populated with people who make me uncomfortable. The outsoor law-enforcement ranges have mostly been forced to shut down.

[pulicords]

I think that the disappearance of shooting ranges is a bigger problem than potential restrictions on ammo purchases.

Just as serious or even more so than the closure of ranges is the closure of retail outlets selling ammunition. Should this bill become law, internet purchases of ammunition will become prohibited. With more gun shops being forced out of business locally (due to zoning/licensing/taxation issues), where (except the internet) will gun owners purchase ammunition? Many firearms are reliable with certain brands/types of ammunition and unreliable with others. How many of the few remaining retail outlets will carry a variety of rounds for a given caliber or even the caliber being searched for?

Additionally, with fewer places to buy ammunition in existence, those that do remain can charge more (since there isn't any local competition).

This legislation is nothing more than an assault on the 2nd Amendment, via the prohibition of ammunition. It does nothing towards addressing the unlawful possession of ammunition by those already prohibited from owning it. In fact, per 12316(b)(1) PC, those found in unlawful possession of ammunition can already be charged with a separate felony offense for each round possessed.

[SoCalSheriff]

In fact, per 12316(b)(1) PC, those found in unlawful possession of ammunition can already be charged with a separate felony offense for each round possessed.

Except for the fact that the last 3 dirtbags I have booked in with that charge, they were all dropped "in the furtherance of justice...":rolleyes:

[LAschoolCop]

I still have my box of 100 9mm ball rounds that i bought 3 years ago :) I guess I dont shoot much.

[Kieth M.]

I still have my box of 100 9mm ball rounds that i bought 3 years ago :) I guess I dont shoot much.

Better hope the turd gangsta', who pulls a gun on you, has practiced even less.

[FJDave]

Better hope the turd gangsta', who pulls a gun on you, has practiced even less.

Best post in this thread so far.

[DAL]

Just as serious or even more so than the closure of ranges is the closure of retail outlets selling ammunition. [/I].

I can get all the .38, 9mm or .45 ammo I want from LASD. This bill does not affect that. If anything, it will make it easier for law-enforcement agencies to get ammo.

[Kieth M.]

I can get all the .38, 9mm or .45 ammo I want from LASD. This bill does not affect that. If anything, it will make it easier for law-enforcement agencies to get ammo.

Oh, so this is all about you, DAL? That connection will disappear the day you retire, won't it? Then, should you want more than 50 rounds at a time you'll spend the money to get the license and not consider it a waste of your time, your money, or state resources...much less an intrusion?

[nobodyjr]

I can get all the .38, 9mm or .45 ammo I want from LASD. This bill does not affect that. If anything, it will make it easier for law-enforcement agencies to get ammo.

Must be nice. My agency has all but eliminated the ammo budget here. 50 rounds a month limit. Which is almost nothing.

[DAL]

Oh, so this is all about you, DAL? That connection will disappear the day you retire, won't it? Then, should you want more than 50 rounds at a time you'll spend the money to get the license and not consider it a waste of your time, your money, or state resources...much less an intrusion?

I only said that for me, the lack of ranges is more of a problem than restrictions on ammo. If there is no place to shoot, it does not matter how much ammo you can get. The range situation affects law-enforcement in general. The lack of ranges has resulted in a lot less off-duty practice, which used to be very common. Firearms skills among police officers have declined

Personally, I think the bill is stupid. The record-keeping requirements are costly, the restrictions are pointless, and the limits can be avoided by simply buying ammo in Arizona or Nevada.

I recall California having made ammo sellers keep records of sales and get ID from purchasers back in the late 1960s or early 1970s. The law was so pointless that it was repealed.

[DAL]

Must be nice. My agency has all but eliminated the ammo budget here. 50 rounds a month limit. Which is almost nothing.

Actually, our limit on free ammo is lower. But you can buy extra practice or duty ammo at near cost.

[LAschoolCop]

Better hope the turd gangsta', who pulls a gun on you, has practiced even less.


I get to shoot 4 times a year :) I actually dont enjoy shooting it really does not interest me.....

[pulicords]

I can get all the .38, 9mm or .45 ammo I want from LASD. This bill does not affect that. If anything, it will make it easier for law-enforcement agencies to get ammo.

The thing about LEO exemptions is that over time, they become restricted too. While current LEOs on your agency might be able to get ammo from the department, when they retire it's certainly possible (if not probable) that the currently enjoyed privilege will disappear. This proposal doesn't have anything to do with making ammo more available to LE. If anything, those pushing this proposal want to make ammunition shortages more common.

Regardless of that, respecting the rights of law abiding citizens to own firearms and ammunition should concern us. "Feel good" legislation that harms regular citizens and does nothing to prevent criminals from posing dangers to the community breeds contempt for the justice system generally and towards the police specifically.

SoCalSheriff's example of a good law that isn't applied is just one more sign that those writing legislation are unaware and/or unconcerned that laws currently on the books are being ignored. If felons were properly charged under the existing code(s), this new legislation wouldn't have made it out of committee. (If those trying to pass it really weren't attempting an "end run" attack on all gun ownership. ;))

[DAL]

The proposed law does concern me and I think it is a bad idea. Not only will it add regulatory burdens and costs, but it will reduce sales tax revenues.

I do not think this law is necessarily aimed at convicted felons. I am not sure that any anti-gun law is "aimed" at being anything more than a feel-good measure that has the added benefit of harassing gun owners. This law would make it harder for felons and criminal gangs to get ammo in California, but I think it is easily evaded by purchasing large quantities of ammo in adjoining states, and so mainly would hinder recreational shooters.

California has far too many, and too complicated, laws regarding firearms. Mexico has even more draconian laws, and we see how well they work there.

[417Lt]

Prado Sport Shooting Range is still open. San Gabriel Canyon will reopen when the fire danger abates. Lytle Creek should be open. There are thousands of miles of OPEN desert to go out to and explore the effects of "plinking."
Do a little checking before target practicing in LA County. In general it has been illegal to target shoot on public land since the '80's. The map that lays out those coveted few open areas is getting very hard to find a copy of. The last few I distributed got laminated on WCs' desks and walls but still managed to walk away somehow. This is a County map; a colored coded description of the text describing closures contained in LACC 13.66. Last I checked the map wasn't online, hopefully that might change.
If I had to predict, I would say that the environmental (lead) laws present a an easy angle to close more shooting areas. Many may scoff at that but the hunters of about a third of Cal sure won't. They have been paying $50 - $80 a box for their lead-free hunting ammo for two years now due to the Condor protection legislation put into effect.
I'm always intrigued by the questions the hunting public asks us in the field each fall each fall. Here's a new good one from this year: "If I find a deer or wild pig gutpile laying on the ground, is it illegal for me to shoot it- With several loads of lead birdshot??:confused::rolleyes:;)

[DAL]

Here is a list of supporters / opponents

SUPPORT : (Verified 9/8/09)

Alameda County Board of Supervisors
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Alameda County/Oakland Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Contra Costa County Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Long Beach Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Los Angeles Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Nevada County Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Orange County Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Riverside County Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Sacramento Valley Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, San Diego Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, San Fernando Valley Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, San Mateo/Santa Clara Counties Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Sonoma County Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Ventura County Chapter
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, West Contra Costa County Chapter
California Chapters of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Chief of Police (Acting) Howard Jordan, City of Oakland
Chief of Police Anthony Batts, City of Long Beach
Chief of Police Blair Urling, City of Stockton
Chief of Police Cam Sanchez, City of Santa Barbara
Chief of Police Edward Medrano, City of Gardena
Chief of Police John Crombach, City of Oxnard
Chief of Police Peter Dunbar, City of Pleasant Hill
Chief of Police Phillip Green, Cities of Corte Madera/Larkspur
Chief of Police Susan Jones, City of Healdsburg
Chief of Police William Bratton, City of Los Angeles
City of Los Angeles, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa
City of Oakland, Mayor Ronald V. Dellums
City of Sacramento
Coalition Against Gun Violence
Councilmember Kevin McCarty, City of Sacramento
Friends Committee on Legislation of California
John's Gun Repair (Fall River Mills)
Legal Community Against Violence
Lutheran Office of Public Policy
Sheriff Leroy D. Baca, County of Los Angeles
Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles
Violence Prevention Coalition of Orange County
Women Against Gun Violence
Youth ALIVE!

OPPOSITION : (Verified 9/8/09)

American Shooting Center, San Diego
Butte County Sheriff
California Association of Firearm Retailers
California Public Defenders Association
California Rifle and Pistol Association
California Sportsman's Lobby, Inc.
Crossroads of the West Gun Shows
Del Norte County Sheriff
Discount Gun Mart
El Cajon Gun Exchange
Fresno County Sheriff
Glenn County Sheriff
Gun Owners of California
Herb Bauer Sporting Goods
Hi-Pass Sports
Kern County Sheriff
Lassen County Sheriff
National Rifle Association of America
National Shooting Sports Foundation, Inc.
On Target Radio KCBQ
Outdoor Sportsmen's Coalition of California
Riverside County Sheriff
Safari Club International
San Benito County Sheriff
San Bernardino County Sheriff
San Joaquin County Sheriff
Second Amendment Sports
Shasta County Sheriff
Stanislaus County Sheriff
Sutter County Sheriff
Tehama County Sheriff
The California Sportsman's Lobby, Inc.
The Shootist
Trinity County Sheriff
11,855 private citizens (based on petitions on file with the Senate Public Safety Committee)
1,210 additional private citizens (based on petition on file with the Senate Public Safety Committee)

[pulicords]

The Brady Campaign (to ban guns) supporting attempts to ban ammunition! What a surprise. :rolleyes:

Thanks Lee Baca for convincing me to send at least a $200.00 contribution to your next opponent in the campaign for sheriff.

[DAL]

The bill passed in watered-down form. The final text of the bill is not yet available online, but I think these are the salient provisions now:


There is no licensing requirement, but sellers still will have to get ID and a thumbprint.

There no limit on the amount of ammo that can be purchased or transferred in one transaction.

All transactions will have to be in person, face-to-face.

The bill takes effect in February 2011.

[Kieth M.]

Thanks Lee Baca for convincing me to send at least a $200.00 contribution to your next opponent in the campaign for sheriff.

What, the Social Worker with a Gun just lost your vote?:rolleyes:

He never, ever, had mine.

[WillBrink]

AB 962 has passed the Assembly and is awaiting a vote on the Senate floor.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_cfa_20090601_202837_asm_floor.html




Amazing. This is an attack on 2A Rights as clear as any. Makes the gun hating state I am in (MA) look like TX! Good luck you poor SOBs in CA...time to move...

[pulicords]

What, the Social Worker with a Gun just lost your vote?:rolleyes:

He never, ever, had mine.

While he never had my vote, this latest outrage just secured some definitive financial support for his next opponent. ;)

If it hasn't already been done, I'd suggest that those concerned with this infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights contact the Governor's Office right away with your feelings. If he hasn't signed this nonsense yet, there's at least the potential for a veto.

[DAL]

It is highly unlikely that Arnold has signed this bill yet, and he may not intend to. It only passed yesterday.

I expect lots of bulk sales of ammo from out-of-state in 2010.

[pulicords]

It is highly unlikely that Arnold has signed this bill yet, and he may not intend to. It only passed yesterday.

I expect lots of bulk sales of ammo from out-of-state in 2010.

I sent an email to the Governor's office a couple of weeks ago and the response I received indicated he doesn't review legislation until it's passed out of the legislature. Hopefully it will be vetoed.

[RicardoTubbs]

This bill has created all the more reason to leave CA after retirement. This bill also makes it necessary to make more trips to Las Vegas for entertainment and to stock up on ammo should prices become outrageous in CA. We Kalifornians are really taking it hard up the rear these days. I'm sure the $.18 cent per gallon fuel tax is next up...if passed, it would help prevent Kalifornians from driving to NV for ammo. Our legislature may not know how to manage finances; however, they know how to stick it to us.

[SoCalSheriff]

The "no-mail order" provision really gets me. What about those of us needing a certain brand/weight/caliber of hard to find ammo? If you're like me, and there aren't any large gunstores nearby, mail order is the only way to obtain said ammunition. I mean, when was the last time anyone saw Winchester 148 gr Match grade .38 wadcutter at the local Walmart?

[DAL]

The "no-mail order" provision really gets me. What about those of us needing a certain brand/weight/caliber of hard to find ammo?

It will make the ammo more expensive, as you will have to get a local retailer to order it for you, which will probably mean that you will have to place a large order.

Of course, you could just buy a house in Las Vegas.

[SoCalSheriff]

Of course, you could just buy a house in Las Vegas.

Or I can just do what anyone else would, including the criminals this law is "supposed" to effect:

Drive to Vegas and load up on ammo there....

[DAL]

But if you have an address there, you can order ammo over the internet. And you could probably find a place to shoot it, too. Arizona would work as well.

[Badkharma]

Does this bill prevent RECEIVING ammo by mail entirely?

Could one just order the ammo and have it shipped to a friend / relative out of state whereby they would just ship it to you?

I honestly don't see the point to this bill other than it being a direct attack to 2A rights.

[DAL]

Monday, October 12th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

California Governor Signs AB962 Restricting Ammunition
California Rifle and Pistol Association

Sacramento, CA --(AmmoLand.com)- AB962, the bill that would restrict ammunition sales in California was signed this past evening by Governor Schwarzennegger.

The bill will take effect on February 1, 2011. His comments are below:

“To the Members of the California State Assembly: I am signing Assembly Bill 962.

This measure would require vendors of handgun ammunition to keep a log of information on handgun ammunition sales, store ammunition in a safe and secure manner, and require the face to-face transfer of ammunition sales.

Although I have previously vetoed legislation similar to this measure, local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety. These records have allowed law enforcement to arrest and prosecute persons who have no business possessing firearms and ammunition: gang members, violent parolees, second and third strikers, and even people previously serving time in state prison for murder.

Utilized properly, this type of information is invaluable for keeping communities safe and preventing dangerous felons from committing crimes with firearms.

Moreover, this type of record keeping is no more intrusive for law abiding citizens than similar laws governing pawnshops or the sale of cold medicine. Unfortunately, even the most successful
local program is flawed; without a statewide law, felons can easily skirt the record keeping requirements of one city by visiting another. Assembly Bill 962 will fix this problem by
mandating that all ammunition vendors in the state keep records on ammunition sales.

As Governor, I have sought the appropriate balance between public safety and the right to keep and bear arms. I have signed important public safety measures to regulate the sale and transfer of .50 caliber rifles, instituted the California Firearms License Check program, and promoted the use of microstamping technology in handguns. I have also vetoed many pieces of legislation that sought to place unreasonable restrictions and burdens on firearms dealers and ammunition vendors.

Assembly Bill 962 reasonably regulates access to ammunition and improves public safety without placing undue burdens on consumers. For these reasons, I am pleased to sign this bill.”

http://forums.officer.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1965180


Schwarzenegger also vetoed Leno's SB585, which would have phased out gun shows at the Cow Palace, with a total ban beginning in 2013. In his veto statement, the governor said it would set a "confusing precedent" and reduce state and local tax revenues.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/11/MNGP1A49ST.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1#ixzz0TlCDizNW

[Blkside]

This is why I am seriously thinking of leaving California..

[Kieth M.]

This is why I am seriously thinking of leaving California..

Been gone two years, one month, and 12 days...don't regret leaving once in all that time.

Chances are, never will.

[ateamer]

That mushmouthed Austrian fascist is one of the biggest ******bags that ever set foot in this state. It is clear that he has no respect for the Constitution. The guy can't even talk right - how did anyone think he was bright enough to run the state?

[DAL]

I am surprised that Arnold signed the bill. He opposed similar bills in the past. Also, he liked to go to Wayside to shoot his guns, I am told.

[nobodyjr]

That mushmouthed Austrian fascist is one of the biggest ******bags that ever set foot in this state. It is clear that he has no respect for the Constitution. The guy can't even talk right - how did anyone think he was bright enough to run the state?

Gray Davis.

[SCV-Sop]

I found this out today at my weekly shooting league. SOB.

90% of what I shoot are reloads anyway. I'm already impacted by the shortage. I'm dead in the water once components are banned by mail. There is NO place out here to buy locally in terms of reload components.

What this effectively does is when I DO buy over the counter I will buy MORE at a time.

As I understand it July 2011 it takes effect, and one has to provide phot ID, and a print and the vendor has to keep record for 5 years.

I got to thinking it might be prudent for ammo clubs to form. A small group of people (a gun club for instance) get the proper licensing and simply order in bulk for themselves with one person taking on the responsibiliy of keeping the paperwork straight.

Who really is going to follow up on this paperwork anyway. No one is enforcing the gun regulations effectively anyway.

[LAschoolCop]

You people voted for him :)

[pulicords]

I am surprised that Arnold signed the bill. He opposed similar bills in the past. Also, he liked to go to Wayside to shoot his guns, I am told.

Not really that surprising considering his "roots." In Austria (and Europe generally) firearms and hunting are reserved for the "upper class" (wealthy). There's no such thing as public land (where hunting/shooting are allowed) and the permit process is very expensive. The idea that working class people can own firearms for any purpose is something he's never supported, except as a means of generating revenue for businesses and of course taxes.

BTW: How many other "citizens" have the opportunity to target shoot at Wayside or other police ranges? They might be paid for by taxpayer funds, but you won't see the governor telling Sheriff Lee Baca to make them accessible to the local residents! ;)

[SCV-Sop]

I wonder how many straw-man purchases this will induce.

[ateamer]

You people voted for him :)

I didn't.

[bigcitypolice06]

Hmmm lets see time get serious about my reloading...and maybe make an extra stop on the way home from my next vegas trip....This could have a serious impact on me shooting bonus too....

[Kieth M.]

Hmmm lets see time get serious about my reloading...and maybe make an extra stop on the way home from my next vegas trip....This could have a serious impact on me shooting bonus too....

PM en-route