Another HR-218 question!

[downbackhack]

My brother recently retired after 28 years of honorable service as a Police Officer in California. He just moved back to New York. He has his retired agency identification and he was range qualified by his former agency only two months ago. He was told by a member of the New York State Police that since he is now a resident of New York he must get a pistol license. He was also told that he must surrender his handguns until such time he gets a pistol license and if he failed to do so he could face felony charges of criminal possession of a weapon (unregistered handgun(s). The question is, isn't he protected by HR-218 or did the State Trooper give him sound advice? Thanks in advance.

[NYPD13]

My brother recently retired after 28 years of honorable service as a Police Officer in California. He just moved back to New York. He has his retired agency identification and he was range qualified by his former agency only two months ago. He was told by a member of the New York State Police that since he is now a resident of New York he must get a pistol license. He was also told that he must surrender his handguns until such time he gets a pistol license and if he failed to do so he could face felony charges of criminal possession of a weapon (unregistered handgun(s). The question is, isn't he protected by HR-218 or did the State Trooper give him sound advice? Thanks in advance.

The State Trooper gave him good advice. To my understanding of HR-218. A retired law enforcement officer has to carry a photo ID of the agency from which he retired from AND a certification issued by the state he resides in which is New York.

[DAL]

The State Trooper gave him good advice. To my understanding of HR-218. A retired law enforcement officer has to carry a photo ID of the agency from which he retired from AND a certification issued by the state he resides in which is New York.

That is not correct.

Your father does not need a current qualification from the state in which he resides if he has a current qualification from the agency from which he retired. "Current" means a certification that he qualified within the last 12 months. See 18 USC § 926C(d)(1), below.

§ 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers
How Current is This?
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
(c) As used in this section, the term “qualified retired law enforcement officer” means an individual who—
(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;
(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;
(3)
(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or
(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;
(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;
(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State’s standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;
(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
(d) The identification required by this subsection is—
(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
(2)
(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and
(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.
(e) As used in this section, the term “firearm” does not include—
(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

[dadyswat]

Dal is correct but they would probably lock him up anyway as NY isn't part of the counrty.

[Xjarhead]

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State

He needs a permit from the county he lives in.

[DAL]

(

He needs a permit from the county he lives in.

I think you need to read the rest of sentence. What you do is like stopping in the First Amendment where it says "Conress shall make no law . . . " concluding that Congress cannot make no laws. Your interpretation would also make the entire statute meaningless.

[nasa808]

Dude.. best bet is to contact you local NYSP barracks and basically advise them of the situation, that way you can get the answer you are looking for. Everyone here is going to say what the believe is the correct answer. Just cut the middle person out and go straight to the source. Let us know what you find out!

[EnWhyPeeDee]

Dal is correct but they would probably lock him up anyway as NY isn't part of the counrty.

NY cops, especially in NYC, always looked the other way when an Out of State LEO was carrying well before HR218....

[EnWhyPeeDee]

Retired Police Officers in NY are not charged for pistol permits and they are good for life. All you need to pay is the DCJS fingerprinting fee. Might as well just get one.

[aikido kid]

unless its Erie County, they wont even give working cops a CC permit! Haha.

[DAL]

As I recall, permits issued outside of New York City are not valid in New York City, so carry under HR 218 is much better.

[deputyjrp55]

I beleive you are wrong... Qualification must be in the jurisdiction you currently reside in... Once you move, it is up to that jurisdition what type of qualification must be achieved to carry under HR....

Well atleast this is what I was told by the local agency I currently work for...

That is not correct.

Your father does not need a current qualification from the state in which he resides if he has a current qualification from the agency from which he retired. "Current" means a certification that he qualified within the last 12 months. See 18 USC § 926C(d)(1), below.

§ 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers
How Current is This?
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
(c) As used in this section, the term “qualified retired law enforcement officer” means an individual who—
(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;
(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;
(3)
(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or
(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;
(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;
(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State’s standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;
(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
(d) The identification required by this subsection is—
(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
(2)
(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and
(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.
(e) As used in this section, the term “firearm” does not include—
(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

[deputyjrp55]

Case in point....

(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State’s standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

I beleive you are wrong... Qualification must be in the jurisdiction you currently reside in... Once you move, it is up to that jurisdition what type of qualification must be achieved to carry under HR....

Well atleast this is what I was told by the local agency I currently work for...

[EnWhyPeeDee]

As I recall, permits issued outside of New York City are not valid in New York City, so carry under HR 218 is much better.

NYS Permits stamped Retired Police Officer or Retired Federal Agent/Officer are valid anywhere in NYS including NYC. Anyone who has an unrestricted carry permit issued outside of NYC (ie: Retired Corrections Officer [peace officer] from Rockland County) needs to have a Special Carry Endorsement/Permit from NYC in order to carry their firearm concealed in NYC.

[EnWhyPeeDee]

unless its Erie County, they wont even give working cops a CC permit! Haha.

Why would an active Police Officer want a Pistol Permit anyways??

[DAL]

The Los Angeles Sheriff's Department qualifies its retirees even if they live out of state. Some agencies do not qualify their retirees at all.

from http://www.grandlodgefop.org/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf:

I am a retired officer—how do I qualify to carry under the provisions of this bill?

The legislation requires retired law enforcement officers to meet the active duty standards for
qualification with a firearm in the State where they reside or with their former agency. Retired
officers must qualify at their own expense and, once they do, will be able to carry the firearm
with which they have been qualified under the provisions of this Act.

While each State or agency may adopt different procedures (see below), the F.O.P. envisions that
retired officers will be able to qualify at the very same facilities used by active duty officers.
The State or agency will issue retired officers who have qualified with their firearm a document
certifying that the officer has met the State or agency’s requirements. Retired officers must carry

from http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/getdoc/357fc6f4-a4f1-484e-8918-4bb0efc0665d/HR218QA_102008.aspx :

3. How does the process work for retired law enforcement officers?

• HR 218 gives retired officers two options for demonstrating firearms proficiency. Under
the first option, a retiree may return to the agency from which he or she retired in good
standing, and shoot the firearms regimen that agency requires of its active officers. The
agency’s standards may be more demanding than a state’s minimum qualifications. For
example a Florida agency may require its active officers to show greater proficiency on
the range than is required as the mandatory minimum under state guidelines. If that is
the case, an agency retiree who has returned to that agency to “shoot the course” will
have to meet the enhanced requirements since that is what is applied to the agency’s
active officers. A retiree living in Florida using this option would have to return to the
agency from which he or she retired in good standing, even if that agency is out of state.

A second option is to find a training center, agency or other venue within Florida that has
opened its range to allow retirees to fire the state’s minimum firearms course as applied
to active officers. This option is available only for retirees who now reside in Florida.
The range master administering the firearms regimen must be an authorized CJSTC
firearms instructor. Only CJSTC-certified firearms instructors will be issued the official
state confirmation cards and they are the only ones authorized to issue such cards.
A retiree will go to the range, and shoot under the conditions imposed by the range host
(including, as allowed by HR 218, paying for any costs to the host). Upon successful
completion of the shooting requirements, the retiree will be issued the official CJSTC
verification card. The date of the “shoot” is on the card.