Suggestions for the 50 yard line...

[towncop]

Ok, so here's the deal. We normally shoot a 48-round course from the 3 yd up to the 25 yd line. Normally I shoot from 234 to 238 out of 240. Well, I've asked to go to firearms instructor school and to qualify for the course, gotta shoot the normal course and...12 rounds from the 50 yd line. Gotta average 285 out of the three strings of fire, 300 being max points each string.

Today...I sucked rear-end. I shot 234 and a 227 out of that 300 points for the firearms inst. qualifier. Didn't even go for the 3rd string to see what I would do. I have until Aug 7th to get it together at that damn 50 yd line. Some info, I noticed that the dropped rounds at the 50 (kneeling 6 rds supported, barricade) are low and left and the other 6 (standing, supported, barricade) are high and to the left. WTF gives? I'm using a Glock 22. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated as I'm REALLY wanting to get this course.

[FJDave]

I have no suggestions. I know that my Glock 22 as issued out of the box is pretty dead-on as far as accuracy. Maybe put more finger on the trigger to cure the "left side" thing. I had to do that, and put the first knuckle on the trigger to solve that problem, As far as up/down, I have no clue....maybe better breath control?

[LA DEP]

towncop,

Are you right or left handed?......and are the barricade shots weak side or strong side?.....

It sounds like (if you are right handed, and shooting strong side) you are 'slapping' the trigger slightly (which makes the rounds go low/left)....at 50 yards, any slight error on trigger pull is going to be more pronounced than at the 25 yard line.......when you are shooting at 25 yards, where is the majority of your grouping?.....if you are getting the occasional 'flyer' in the 9 ring at 25 yards, that same round is going to probably be way out in the 7 or 6 ring at 50 yards......

As far as the standing shots, are you maybe leaning on the barricade, putting slight pressure on the backstrap of the weapon (making the muzzle go up a fraction)?

That is all I can think of off the top of my head.....the only other solution I can offer is to get rid of that Austrian POS and buy a HK......:D just kidding

[Maciej]

Right Hand Correction Target

http://www.maciejrogozinski.com/private/RightHandCorrections.jpg

Left Hand Correction Target

http://www.maciejrogozinski.com/private/LeftHandCorrections.jpg

Hope that helps..

[fdkay]

Frequently those high shots are the result of 'looking up" as the shot breaks to see where the round falls.
It has been my experience that many times you shoot low when kneeling because you tend to bring your head down to the sight line instead of bringing the sight line up to your eyes.

[Outshined]

All good ideas. 50 yard line use your sights. Do not look up after you shoot. Do not lean on barricade. Some people use both eyes open to line up sights, and I found in my case it is more accurate. Always use your strong eye, even if both eyes open.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

I do the same thing with my Glock 22. Mine does come from squeezing with the fingertips as the chart indicates (I'm a righty.)

High and to the left sounds like you're not following through on the shot. Are you taking a shot and then looking at the target to see where it impacted? If so, KNOCK IT OFF!

Breathe, focus on the front sight and slowly curl the trigger to the rear until the shot breaks. When it does, keep your eye focused on the front sight while you release the trigger until it resets. Once the trigger resets, THEN you could look at the target IF and only if it's required by the course of fire. If you gotta bust 6 rounds, front sight all the time until you're through firing. THEN look at the target.

[David Hineline]

I find the Glock factory sights poor at best. I would change them out for some aftermarket. I like the TruGlo TFO sights.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

David, many departments do not allow swapping of the sights. I have Trijicon night sights on my Glock 22 and have no problem hitting what I need to. If I do MY job, the gun will do the same. Not "surgical precision" with the Glock, but I'm fair t' middlin'. ;)

[Sac Law Man]

Since your already handicapped shooting a Glock and not a Sig (Just Joking), Dry Fire and work on re-setting the sear. Its all about trigger squeeze and front sight focus.

Shooting from 50 yards requires practice and mental discipline.

I shoot a Sig 226, 40 cal. What works great for me is placing a penny on the front sight and dry firing strong hand only, double action without causing the penny to fall. Single action is too easy.. Really wont be as beneficial with a Glock.

[lesnper]

Right Hand Correction Target

http://www.maciejrogozinski.com/private/RightHandCorrections.jpg

Left Hand Correction Target

http://www.maciejrogozinski.com/private/LeftHandCorrections.jpg

Hope that helps..

Excellent advise.

[ddurkof]

Have you considered placing a 3.5 lb connector in the Glock? It takes about 5 minutes to install. You could practice with the 3.5 and see if it works for you. If your department requires that you carry the 5.5 connector on duty you can replace it prior to going back on duty.

[towncop]

towncop,

Are you right or left handed?......and are the barricade shots weak side or strong side?.....

It sounds like (if you are right handed, and shooting strong side) you are 'slapping' the trigger slightly (which makes the rounds go low/left)....at 50 yards, any slight error on trigger pull is going to be more pronounced than at the 25 yard line.......when you are shooting at 25 yards, where is the majority of your grouping?.....if you are getting the occasional 'flyer' in the 9 ring at 25 yards, that same round is going to probably be way out in the 7 or 6 ring at 50 yards......

As far as the standing shots, are you maybe leaning on the barricade, putting slight pressure on the backstrap of the weapon (making the muzzle go up a fraction)?

That is all I can think of off the top of my head.....the only other solution I can offer is to get rid of that Austrian POS and buy a HK......:D just kiddingI'm right handed. Barricade shots are strong side. 25 yd line, majority of grouping is 8 and 9 ring, toward the right. And as far as getting rid of the Glock, lol, I love Glock's, but would much rather go back to a Sig!

[towncop]

I do the same thing with my Glock 22. Mine does come from squeezing with the fingertips as the chart indicates (I'm a righty.)

High and to the left sounds like you're not following through on the shot. Are you taking a shot and then looking at the target to see where it impacted? If so, KNOCK IT OFF!

Breathe, focus on the front sight and slowly curl the trigger to the rear until the shot breaks. When it does, keep your eye focused on the front sight while you release the trigger until it resets. Once the trigger resets, THEN you could look at the target IF and only if it's required by the course of fire. If you gotta bust 6 rounds, front sight all the time until you're through firing. THEN look at the target.

Sounds like something my PMI told me in boot camp! LOL. Maybe I should listent to this advice, served me well as the Company high shooter. :D

[towncop]

I find the Glock factory sights poor at best. I would change them out for some aftermarket. I like the TruGlo TFO sights.

I agree. Glock factory sights suck. All our dept. guns are Trijicon. Like I said, 25 yds and up, I'm really, really good with it. That 50 yd just kicked my crack!

[towncop]

Have you considered placing a 3.5 lb connector in the Glock? It takes about 5 minutes to install. You could practice with the 3.5 and see if it works for you. If your department requires that you carry the 5.5 connector on duty you can replace it prior to going back on duty.
I'm going to try this exact thing. See what that'll do for me. For everyone else, thanks for all the suggestions and words of wisdom! :D

[FiremanMike]

Ok, so here's the deal. We normally shoot a 48-round course from the 3 yd up to the 25 yd line. Normally I shoot from 234 to 238 out of 240. Well, I've asked to go to firearms instructor school and to qualify for the course, gotta shoot the normal course and...12 rounds from the 50 yd line. Gotta average 285 out of the three strings of fire, 300 being max points each string.

Today...I sucked rear-end. I shot 234 and a 227 out of that 300 points for the firearms inst. qualifier. Didn't even go for the 3rd string to see what I would do. I have until Aug 7th to get it together at that damn 50 yd line. Some info, I noticed that the dropped rounds at the 50 (kneeling 6 rds supported, barricade) are low and left and the other 6 (standing, supported, barricade) are high and to the left. WTF gives? I'm using a Glock 22. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated as I'm REALLY wanting to get this course.


Work on your trigger pull. Sit at home on your couch (clear your damn weapon, check it repeatedly before you start, or buy some snap caps) and just work at slowly pulling the trigger over and over and over. The motion from FRONT TO BACK should be fluid and smooth, not jerky at all.

Get to the point where you can dry fire while looking down the sights and your sights don't move at all. Then take that method with you to the range and you'll be amazed.

[firebirdconv92]

I agree. Glock factory sights suck. All our dept. guns are Trijicon. Like I said, 25 yds and up, I'm really, really good with it. That 50 yd just kicked my crack!

towncop,

use some black sight paint and black out your sights so that you are lining up the sights and the sights only. Sometimes we subconciously line up the three dots on the night sights instead of getting the proper sight picture.

The sight paint cleans easily w/ Hoppes and I think you can get it at most outdoor shops.

Just a suggestion, it helped me when I went through the pre-qual...

[towncop]

towncop,

use some black sight paint and black out your sights so that you are lining up the sights and the sights only. Sometimes we subconciously line up the three dots on the night sights instead of getting the proper sight picture.

The sight paint cleans easily w/ Hoppes and I think you can get it at most outdoor shops.

Just a suggestion, it helped me when I went through the pre-qual...
You know what....funny you mention this because I caught myself doing just that. I was trying to line up the 3 dots. OK, another trick I'll have to try. Thanks for that. You would think that a former Marine Corps marksmanship coach wouldn't have these problems! Good grief!

[towncop]

Well, went back out on the range this week. Worked on my trigger control, and proper sight picture. Did a heck of a lot better with the .40, however, I tried a buddy's Glock 17, and OMG. I shot an average of 280 with it. WTH is the deal with me and the .40????? Arggggghhhhhh!!! :mad: I'm so ticked off with my G22. Killin' me at the 50 yard line.

From the 3 to the 25, I can knock the hell out of the target, but for some reason at the 50 with that .40, still isn't falling into place.

[RJMan12]

if you can w/o violating some policy, you might look at trying different types of ammo and see if there's a brand/grain/powder that your particular Glock 22 likes better. Just a thought

[oneoldcop]

get some snap caps and have someone load your mags for you; 2 or 3 rounds hot, then a snap, just randomly done. Let your partner observe what you are doing wrong.
I do believe it's trigger pull. Had the same problem and my firearms instructor had me line the sights while he pulled the trigger...dead on each time.

[Resq14]

towncop,

use some black sight paint and black out your sights so that you are lining up the sights and the sights only. Sometimes we subconciously line up the three dots on the night sights instead of getting the proper sight picture.

The sight paint cleans easily w/ Hoppes and I think you can get it at most outdoor shops.

Just a suggestion, it helped me when I went through the pre-qual...

I've never heard this suggested before. We did daytime quals last week (shot well), but now I realize that I was focusing on the dots and not the actual sights. At the very least, it's something to keep in my mind now... thanks.

[towncop]

Just an update. Been doing some practice on my trigger control and breathing. Went out to the range today and shot an average of 291 out of 300. I can't believe what a difference the above and truely FOCUSING on the front site (as was taught in the Marine Corps) has made. :D 2 weeks 'til my test!

[Sgt. Slaughter]

I can't believe what a difference the above and truely FOCUSING on the front site (as was taught in the Marine Corps) has made. :D

It's amazing what those crazy jarhead bastards know, eh? Well over 200 years of killing generally makes the organization proficient in doing what they do. ;)

Good luck on qual day.

[towncop]

It's amazing what those crazy jarhead bastards know, eh? Well over 200 years of killing generally makes the organization proficient in doing what they do. ;)

Good luck on qual day.
Ain't that the truth!? I remember my PMI in boot camp, Sgt. Davis. Hell of an instructor. I also remember going to the coaches course when I got back to the Fleet at Camp Lejeune. Those guys, ESPECIALLY the CWO4 and the Gunner, could shoot the pooooh out of any weapon there!

Thanks for the well wishes too...

[Kieth M.]

Are you comfortable kneeling? I didn't wear one, I just added a foam pad to the ground where I put my knee down. That made a tremendous difference for me.

Edited to add: Hate to ask, but how's your vision? In my late 30's I noticed that I had to hold my fish hooks further away while trying to get them on my line. Adding eyeglasses while shooting assisted my attaining my former department's highest shooting level, Distinguished Expert...maintaining a six-month high of 385 out of 400...my best was a one-time 392/400.

Best of luck...Bobby Knight would be proud of you!

[towncop]

Alright boys, the results are in.....................I averaged 289 out of 300 today!! I'm pumped man. My practice round I shot a 281. I was like, well ok. First qual target...272!!! :(( I WAS ****SSED. I think I let my nerves get the best of me 'cause I came back with qual target 2 and 3 shooting a 296 and a 299, respectively. Range LT was like, "WTF man?? What happened the first time?" Oh well, I made it.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. That 50 yrd line is no freaking problem now!

[Sgt. Slaughter]

You GO boy! Good job on a marked improvement.

[firebirdconv92]

Range LT was like, "WTF man?? What happened the first time?" Oh well, I made it.

Kipper will do that!!

Congrats brother, now you get to go to Pistol instructor school. HELL of a good time! Spend a week shooting your pistol on the state's dime.

Good shooting! :cool:

[willbird]

Just an update. Been doing some practice on my trigger control and breathing. Went out to the range today and shot an average of 291 out of 300. I can't believe what a difference the above and truely FOCUSING on the front site (as was taught in the Marine Corps) has made. :D 2 weeks 'til my test!

What kind of targets do you shoot at when you are shooting the course your working on ??

And what kind of targets do you practice on ??

One thing you can do to try to isolate if the issue is a mechanical one or an optical one is to shoot in practice at a BLANK target, this encourages focus on the front sight. This is a tactic to remember when working with new shooters because we TELL them to focus on the front sight but we cannot see through their eyes to make sure they ARE doing so. Often a new shooters groups will be dramatically smaller if they shoot at the blank reverse side of the target than if they shoot at the front.

Also important to remember is that each shot is an individual event, the one before it or after it has no influence on where it goes :-).

Bill