Self Sponsored Students Hired?

[CPLHARRISON]

I am just trying to gauge my chances of getting picked up, by going pre-service.
Vote in the poll if you were at one point a Pre-service/Self Sponsored Recruit and are now hired, still trying or in the process. Go into detail if you would like, any comments would help me out. Thanks guys.

Cpl. H.

[ask80]

hired halfway through and paid/re-imbursed the rest of the academy...

[CAleo]

Hired the day I graduated. The hiring process was approximately 3 months long, and I didn't start the process until about 3 months into the Academy, worked out perfect.

[avalon42]

Definitely pre-service is going to help you. Like you, I had some unfavorable areas in my background (none of them disqualifying), but given how the economy is and the selection process being much more competitive, I got booted twice from hiring processes (1 DQ, 1 non-select) before deciding to go the self-sponsored route. I also decided to try the Reserve Officer route as most of the officers I have spoken to started out this way.

[JaySantos]

Hired, 3 weeks after starting the academy. Paid back for all expenses.

[CAleo]

Hired, 3 weeks after starting the academy. Paid back for all expenses.

That must’ve been nice.

[CPLHARRISON]

Definitely pre-service is going to help you. Like you, I had some unfavorable areas in my background (none of them disqualifying), but given how the economy is and the selection process being much more competitive, I got booted twice from hiring processes (1 DQ, 1 non-select) before deciding to go the self-sponsored route. I also decided to try the Reserve Officer route as most of the officers I have spoken to started out this way.

Yeah I don't have any thing DQ for life in my background, I have a clean nose for the most part, but competition right now is hard. I met a guy who had a MA and an Academy grad I can't compete with that. I have gotten DQ'ed from No agency, 4 have said non-selected. One because of my tattoo on my arm.

Cpl. H.

[hbliam]

Hired after but didn't apply until I had been a Reserve for over 4 years. From application to first day on job in 2.5 months and classified as a lateral when I got hired. Bumped me up a pay step.

[0341]

Yeah I don't have any thing DQ for life in my background, I have a clean nose for the most part,
Cpl. H.

You get your good cookie medal while you were in the Corps?

I'm in a similar position as you, prior USMC service but no four year degree (working on that now). Considering going the modular III & II approach as well, then get my foot in the door that way. If I'm not hired by the end of this year, then in Jan 2010 I'll be at Evergreen in San Jose doing the BAM Lvl III course on my own dime. I think with the way the economy is, it's going to get a bit worse before it gets better. I would say that come Fall, we won't see any departments hiring recruits. It'll be strictly Academy grad and lateral openings.

[CPLHARRISON]

ou get your good cookie medal while you were in the Corps?

I'm in a similar position as you, prior USMC service but no four year degree (working on that now). Considering going the modular III & II approach as well, then get my foot in the door that way. If I'm not hired by the end of this year, then in Jan 2010 I'll be at Evergreen in San Jose doing the BAM Lvl III course on my own dime. I think with the way the economy is, it's going to get a bit worse before it gets better. I would say that come Fall, we won't see any departments hiring recruits. It'll be strictly Academy grad and lateral openings.

Yes I do have my Good Cookie. I am paper clean as far as the Marine Corps goes, I was also a 0341 so to you Semper Fi! I am pretty decorated for just being in 4 years. Plus I've done all my MCI's and Sgt's Course ect..
I am doing to same as you mentioned the academy. I am enrolled at the Fullerton College Police Academy waiting to see if I get accepted into the class. If I graduate from FCPA its worth 52 Units then I just need to finish up two semesters worth of GE reqs and I'll have my AS degree.

[hbliam]

If I graduate from FCPA its worth 52 Units then I just need to finish up two semesters worth of GE reqs and I'll have my AS degree.


It's worth units there but not toward a 4 year degree at any 4 year institution.

[CPLHARRISON]

It's worth units there but not toward a 4 year degree at any 4 year institution.

I am only using academy units toward my AS in CJ. The General Education Units are what you have to transfer to a 4 year school. I am not going to have the same major so it wouldn't make sense to transfer my CJ units any way.

[hankido2000]

I think the hiring process here in California is different than in other parts of the country. There are some smaller agencies that will only hire you if you're an academy graduate -- so being self-sponsored isn't a hindrance. There are many agencies here, large and small, that accept self-sponsored people. Besides which, many agencies come through the academies to recruit.

[CAleo]

To add to that.

At least in my Academy we all had to pass the POST test which all agencies in Cali require before hire, and we all had to pass a basic background investigation. After the above two processes were passed by the self sponsored pre students, we all received a letter from the Academy verifying that we passed and were eligible to attend the program. If you didn’t pass those two pretests then you were sent a letter telling the pre student that they were ineligible to attend.

It is a nice prescreening process that prospective students have to go through before failing somewhere else and wasting agencies money. So basically any agency that an Academy student applied to knew that the applicant could pass a CA POST test and a basic background investigation. That is how it works in CA. The agencies are more reassured about Academy students due to those facts, besides saving the thousands of dollars on not having to train the applicant as well. It is a Win/Win for the agency.

[hankido2000]

There are several steps that a self-sponsored recruit has to go through for the academy that I will be attending. For example, you have to take and pass the California Basic POST written exam that's similar to the written exams given by agencies throughout the state in some for or another. Also, you have to be fingerprinted and receive a clearance letter from the California DOJ prior to entry to the academy. You also have to be cleared by a physician who can certify that you are physically able to endure the rigors of the academy. So it's a little more involved than just showing up at the registrar's office at a local community college and deciding to join the academy on a whim.

[DAL]

I have heard that departments in some areas of California will not sponsor reserve recruits. However, I do not personally know of any.

I think you are much better off being sponsored. You will go through the hiring process before going to the academy and will not waste your time if you cannot pass the background, physical or psych. You also won't have to pay the tuition.

[RNM]

I wish the second question was "hired withing 6 months of graduation', or at least some kind of time frame.

In all honesty, I don't give two poos about NYC or NY State. The post that set this whole thing off was dumb, in the wrong forum and designed to tick people off. Poor form. Poor form indeed. He probably voted in the poll to mess it up.

[nobodyjr]

None of the ones in my academy were hired. They were going preservice academy because they had background issues and weren't competitive. Having the academy done will make you more competitive, but it won't erase the background issues.

If you are willing to move to a remote area without an academy that might help (Imperial county etc).

[0341]

In CA, almost all the recruit jobs are closed now. Every week another agency closes recruit hiring and only accepts Academy Grad / Lateral applicants. Cities and Counties just don't have the funds to sponsor recruits these days, despite their org charts being short of what their allowed staff level. Thus, if an applicant were to self-sponsor to become an Academy grad...they can now choose from dozens more agencies to apply to. The odds are improved without a doubt.

[CPLHARRISON]

So my going through the academy self sponsored, and taking normal college classes and working at the same time is a good idea to help me hurtle my background issues?

Cpl. H.

[MagnumPI]

So my going through the academy self sponsored, and taking normal college classes and working at the same time is a good idea to help me hurtle my background issues?

Cpl. H.

Cpl H,

Are you at liberty to discuss exactly what are your background issues? It's kind of hard to give advice to someone if we don't know exactly what is wrong.

[nobodyjr]

So my going through the academy self sponsored, and taking normal college classes and working at the same time is a good idea to help me hurtle my background issues?

Cpl. H.

Maybe. Maybe not.

[hbliam]

Cpl H,

Are you at liberty to discuss exactly what are your background issues? It's kind of hard to give advice to someone if we don't know exactly what is wrong.


He has another thread going that pertains to his BG.

[hbliam]

So my going through the academy self sponsored, and taking normal college classes and working at the same time is a good idea to help me hurtle my background issues?

Cpl. H.


Self sponsoring isn't a delete key. If you can't get hired full time because of BG issues you won't get hired. Your issues concern moral turpitude and domestic violence. Two giant hot buttons these days.

Sadly, California may not be the place for you to try to get hired. With more news everyday of possible layoffs of experianced peace officers there simply is no reason for anyone to "give you a break". Why would they? There are hundreds of guys with clean BG's ready to go. My small department that had a hard time in the past filling spots now has a dozen laterals on a waiting list.

If you have been DQ'd 4 plus times (or whatever it is), self sponsoring is a waste of your time and money.

[avalon42]

So my going through the academy self sponsored, and taking normal college classes and working at the same time is a good idea to help me hurtle my background issues?

Cpl. H.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Self sponsoring isn't a delete key. If you can't get hired full time because of BG issues you won't get hired. Your issues concern moral turpitude and domestic violence. Two giant hot buttons these days.

Sadly, California may not be the place for you to try to get hired. With more news everyday of possible layoffs of experianced peace officers there simply is no reason for anyone to "give you a break". Why would they? There are hundreds of guys with clean BG's ready to go. My small department that had a hard time in the past filling spots now has a dozen laterals on a waiting list.

If you have been DQ'd 4 plus times (or whatever it is), self sponsoring is a waste of your time and money.

Exactly what they said. It isn't a delete option for your BG problems. However, as I mentioned to you before, you are giving ranked officers who teach the academy the opportunity to truly evaluate you as a person and future peace officer. You are showing growth, determination, and maturity by self-sponsoring yourself. You can only go one direction in life, that's forward and upwards. If you continue on that trend, you can successfully claim that you distanced yourself from your past. Does that always work? No, of course not. However, I have heard of officers who have WORSE backgrounds and STILL got the job.

I got the same raised eyebrows and weird looks when I was job hunting because I have some "similarities" with your BG (not all). After self-sponsoring through an academy, agencies are giving me a second glance/consideration. It is not set in stone that I am hired yet (just finished backgrounds--CLEARED :) ), but it is a dramatic improvement from the "get-out-before-we-kick-you-out" type response.

Good luck.

[CPLHARRISON]

Avalon gives me some type of hope. I mean out of all the Former Marines that are police officers how many do you think have done the same type of thing I have overseas?

And the DV I was not convicted, charged, or even in suspicion of being guilty, with that being said I wasn't even arrested at the scene. I was interviewed by military police and released 45 minutes later. I wen't back to normal day life and never heard from the MP's on the issues again, after I was let go. So that says to me that i did nothing wrong and it shouldn't be held against me. However i know its still on paper, but its a very explainable situation that the paper backs me up on.

So I have confidence that my background doesn't DQ me from LE all together for life, but I do also realize that I have to put some time and the academy in between me and all that crap. Please put more info in on my comments. Thanks guys.

Cpl. H.

[CPLHARRISON]

If you have been DQ'd 4 plus times (or whatever it is), self sponsoring is a waste of your time and money.

I have never been DQ'ed. I have only received non-selection letters due to the fact there are better qualified people then you. I forgot to mention I talked to a Officer at LAPD in the Hiring evaluation section, that my dad knows and he said the academy would be a good idea.

[nobodyjr]

I just read your post about your Bg issues. Straight up- you are not hireable right now. I think someone day you will be.

You are still very young. There were people in the good times without your background issues that got passed over.

You have two hurdles to pass, backgrounds then being competitive. Having military experience isn't that competitive alone anymore. Being competitive is much harder than passing a background. Especially right now with the economy.

I think going to the academy is a waste of your time. If I were you I would go get a 4 year degree, hold a steady job (and get your credit in order). Let a little time pass and the economy rebound... then apply in your mid to late 20's... which isn't that far off.

There are some agencies right now changing their retirement plans to make is so you can't retire until 55... which means there is no benefit to starting before you turn 26 years old anyways.

[hankido2000]

Cpl. H.--I know of someone who had a similar background as yours. He was in the military and paid for a prostitute while he was in Thailand. He disclosed this information on his background and was told by the backgrounder that it wouldn't be a problem because although it would have been a crime in this country, since it wasn't illegal in Thailand it wouldn't have been an issue. He was set to attend the academy, but the Friday before he was to start he received a phone call from LAPD. He was told that someone higher up had reviewed his background file, saw the disclosure and decided that he was out and that he shouldn't report to the academy after all.

Shortly after this incident he enrolled as a pre-service recruit and was picked up by a smaller agency before graduation.

[avalon42]

Cpl. H.--I know of someone who had a similar background as yours. He was in the military and paid for a prostitute while he was in Thailand. He disclosed this information on his background and was told by the backgrounder that it wouldn't be a problem because although it would have been a crime in this country, since it wasn't illegal in Thailand it wouldn't have been an issue. He was set to attend the academy, but the Friday before he was to start he received a phone call from LAPD. He was told that someone higher up had reviewed his background file, saw the disclosure and decided that he was out and that he shouldn't report to the academy after all.

Shortly after this incident he enrolled as a pre-service recruit and was picked up by a smaller agency before graduation.

Hankido is correct. A fellow recruit in my academy was a Marine, and he had a friend who got picked up by the CHP. He admitted to a little fiesta fest down in TJ a month prior to applying. They shrugged and said it was legal down there, so they were cool with it. This is all second-hand information, but comes from a very reputable source.

Maybe you should try CHP (and I am not saying their hiring standards are lax).

[CPLHARRISON]

I just read your post about your Bg issues. Straight up- you are not hireable right now. I think someone day you will be.


Right now I agree I am not. I have been getting the best advice on the issue from people here and all the officers i know personally from going up in a Cop family. Although you are the only one to say don't go to the academy, i still appreciate the insight.

I have to go though, for two reasons. One it counts as 52 units towards my Associate of Science degree and its completely paid for by Grants and the GI BILL. Most importantly if there is no other option for me. Not going is like giving up on myself and thats just some thing I can't do. The way I see it is if I ever want to be a LEO then I have to go and graduate. The certificate is good for 3 years, so If I have to wait two years before I get picked up which would make me 26 then so be it, but at least I will have completed the academy already.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gAwTMATXyBM/SgOtMzmqaKI/AAAAAAAAAAU/kVyyv2uFpTU/s320/david_spade_joe_dirt_001.jpg

Like this wise man above said, "Keep on Keepin On Brother" life's a garden, dig it man.. lol

[DLEE714]

Just remember certain agencies do not accept extended academies. I think they should accept any Basic CA POST certified academy. For some reason certain agencies do not favor the extended ones. I attended FCPA and enjoyed my time there. The FCPA is good if you work full-time, I would recommend a 6 month full-time academy if you are able to. Regardless, the good thing is you get 52 college units towards an A.S. degree. Goodluck!

[officerdotcomm]

ALL: I just cleaned out all of the "NY vs CA" posts. Let that argument die. Report any who revive it. This is a CALI thread, NOT NY.

Also, ALL BE WARNED: Reviving that debate in this thread, or recreating it in another will result in users being banned.

[nobodyjr]

Right now I agree I am not. I have been getting the best advice on the issue from people here and all the officers i know personally from going up in a Cop family. Although you are the only one to say don't go to the academy, i still appreciate the insight.

I have to go though, for two reasons. One it counts as 52 units towards my Associate of Science degree and its completely paid for by Grants and the GI BILL. Most importantly if there is no other option for me. Not going is like giving up on myself and thats just some thing I can't do. The way I see it is if I ever want to be a LEO then I have to go and graduate. The certificate is good for 3 years, so If I have to wait two years before I get picked up which would make me 26 then so be it, but at least I will have completed the academy already.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gAwTMATXyBM/SgOtMzmqaKI/AAAAAAAAAAU/kVyyv2uFpTU/s320/david_spade_joe_dirt_001.jpg

Like this wise man above said, "Keep on Keepin On Brother" life's a garden, dig it man.. lol

The academy is designed to get you ready for field training. Not designed to teach you to be a cop. Field training is much harder at most agencies than the academy now days. If you don't get hired after the academy (which I don't think you will for a while), you are going to forget a lot of what you learn in the academy.

Use your GI bill to go to a real college and get a degree. Put two or three more years between you and the stuff. And get hired and paid for it.

[MagnumPI]

I have never been DQ'ed. I have only received non-selection letters due to the fact there are better qualified people then you. I forgot to mention I talked to a Officer at LAPD in the Hiring evaluation section, that my dad knows and he said the academy would be a good idea.

Cpl H,

Let me see if I understand your three main background issues here:

1. After a successful enlistment in the Marine Corps, you worked at a few different construction jobs for a short period of time each, and went to where the work was in a troubled industry, in a terrible economy.

2. You paid for the services of a female one time in a foreign country where this is perfectly legal.

3. You talked to a couple of MPs about the subject of DV on one occasion. You were never held, arrested, booked, charged, or convicted of any DV. The MPs were so horrified that they never ever talked to you again about the subject.

Ok, maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake, but what is so terrible about these three items? Jesus, number 2 is so ridiculous....if they ever held that against military members, they would never be able to hire any veteran that served overseas.

I went through the entire process with SDPD back in 2003, and when the background detective asked me about "working girls" and services rendered for money overseas, I told her of course I've done it. When she asked how many times, I told her "a lot." I was still offered an academy date when all was said and done.

I know that times are a lot tougher now than they were in '03, and I know I may be in the minority here Cpl H, but I say go for it. For no other reason than to prove it to yourself, go for it. Semper Fi.

[CPLHARRISON]

Thanks Magnum P.I. Thats what all the officers I have talked to told me except one... but i understand also where he is coming from. I have also being getting PM from Orange County officer saying go for it, I am going to have to stick with the majorities oppinion on this one.

Thanks guys.