I'm sorry that handcuff key is for what now?

[KJB]

Here is the scenario:

You take an inmate to the ER at your local hospital, as you have done several times. During the course of the medical staff coming and you notice one of them has a handcuff key clipped to their ID card. Knowing that the hospital's soft restraints do NOT use any kind of key, you come to the conclusion that there is only one possible reason for having it. You pull said medical staff aside and ask her why she has a handcuff key clipped to her ID and she says "Oh that's in case I have to take the handcuffs off." You then tell her that it is illegal and she responds with. "Well I never said I was GOING to do that." and gives you this "What did I do wrong" blank stare.

Here are the questions:

1) How fast can you call your LT, Master Control, Dispatch, etc?

2) Do you bar her access from the room or merely tell her to secure the cuff key somewhere?

3) You find out she is a Emergency Room PHYSICIAN, doesn't that make it worse?

4) How long does it take you to write the incident report when you back to your facility?

I guess it just goes to show you that even doctors can be brain dead.

[Iowa #1603]

Here is the scenario:

You take an inmate to the ER at your local hospital, as you have done several times. During the course of the medical staff coming and you notice one of them has a handcuff key clipped to their ID card. Knowing that the hospital's soft restraints do NOT use any kind of key, you come to the conclusion that there is only one possible reason for having it. You pull said medical staff aside and ask her why she has a handcuff key clipped to her ID and she says "Oh that's in case I have to take the handcuffs off." You then tell her that it is illegal and she responds with. "Well I never said I was GOING to do that." and gives you this "What did I do wrong" blank stare. .

You are present to assure the inmate does not escape. You are in control of that inmate and his/her restraints.
Possession of a handcuff key is not illegal in itself in most jurisdictions so there is not much you can do about her having the key.

You have already told the Doctor that she is not allowed to remove any restraints unless she has your permission. You have done your job so far.



Here are the questions:

1) How fast can you call your LT, Master Control, Dispatch, etc?

We carry cell phones on all prisoner transports…………………..how fast can I hit the pre-programmed number? Almost as fast as I can dial the institution number direct!. I don't care that cell phones are usually "banned" in the ER setting............OFFICER SAFETY trumps that -----CALL

Since I have called the institution and talked to my shift supervisor………………..all of my following responses would be driven by the advice/directions given by my superior.

Absence of the advice of a supervisor………………………common sense and SECURITY should drive your response to any situation while you are transporting an inmate outside of your secure perimeter.

2) Do you bar her access from the room or merely tell her to secure the cuff key somewhere?

I wouldn’t bar access because we really don’t have that authority. At this point we are at “their house” and for the most part have to obey “their” rules and regulations.

Your presence should be enough security to assure that the inmate is not released from his/her restraints.

I would however take physical measures against the staff member should she attempt to release your inmate after being told not to. NOW she has committed a crime. The hospital visit would be terminated IMMEDIATELY should she attempt to release the inmate.

3) You find out she is a Emergency Room PHYSICIAN, doesn't that make it worse?

A doctorate does not equal intelligence …..just knowledge of the subject matter of that doctorate

4) How long does it take you to write the incident report when you back to your facility?

Since I have had the entire trip to formulate my wording…………as soon as I have dropped off the prisoner I would be typing.

I guess it just goes to show you that even doctors can be brain dead.

99.999% of the general population have absolutely NO IDEA what the type of individuals we work with on a daily basis are capable of. Heck just look at all the CORRECTIONS staff that get ducked by inmates, much less outside people.


My warden would be having a talk with the hospital administrator before the day was out.

[wakeislander]

I'd make sure that if she's in that room that cuff key ain't.

Without a doubt thats a reportable incident.

[UnJustBaton]

I would imeadiatley ask for this person to leave the room and call my watch commander in addition to talking with the nurse administrator. Simply her having possesion of said key represents an imediate threat to civilian safety and the security of the inmate. The inmate could eaisly over power the nurse and take the key. If the trip papers do not say remove restraints or a judge didnt order them removed then they aint coming off.

[ACS1719]

Here is the scenario:
...Here are the questions:

1) How fast can you call your LT, Master Control, Dispatch, etc?

2) Do you bar her access from the room or merely tell her to secure the cuff key somewhere?

3) You find out she is a Emergency Room PHYSICIAN, doesn't that make it worse?

4) How long does it take you to write the incident report when you back to your facility?

I guess it just goes to show you that even doctors can be brain dead.

1. Call central and immidialy advise of the new increased escape risk. Request and additional member if available for security purposes.

2. Tell her to secure her cuff key and that if she at any point motions or attempts to release your prisoner from his restraints or provides him with means to that end that you will arrest her for abetting an escape (or whatever is appropriate).

3. I dont give a **** if the bitch is the hospital administrator or regional CEO!! My prisoner, my policies, my safety and security! If they refuse to treat then we leave and either return to the jail or try another facility and file a complaint.

4. I get as detailed as possible to CYA my butt. so it could take a while...

[lawdog30]

Here is the scenario:

You take an inmate to the ER at your local hospital, as you have done several times. During the course of the medical staff coming and you notice one of them has a handcuff key clipped to their ID card. Knowing that the hospital's soft restraints do NOT use any kind of key, you come to the conclusion that there is only one possible reason for having it. You pull said medical staff aside and ask her why she has a handcuff key clipped to her ID and she says "Oh that's in case I have to take the handcuffs off." You then tell her that it is illegal and she responds with. "Well I never said I was GOING to do that." and gives you this "What did I do wrong" blank stare.



Here are the questions:

1) How fast can you call your LT, Master Control, Dispatch, etc?
I can call my supervisor as fast as I can dial the phone or get on the radio.
2) Do you bar her access from the room or merely tell her to secure the cuff key somewhere?
no do not bar access and you secure her key for her till either she leaves or you leave.3) You find out she is a Emergency Room PHYSICIAN, doesn't that make it worse? in our policies and only in a emergency a doctor or a physician can order that restraints be removed

4) How long does it take you to write the incident report when you back to your facility? my report will only take a few minutes

I guess it just goes to show you that even doctors can be brain dead.

[Rottie299]

We use BOA's on all of our escorts so she can have whatever she wants.. the cuffs don't come off until I take 'em off... :D

[srq screw]

3. I dont give a **** if the bitch is the hospital administrator or regional CEO!! My prisoner, my policies, my safety and security! If they refuse to treat then we leave and either return to the jail or try another facility and file a complaint.


absolutely. When I am doing the hospital, I don't care what the sign on the front door says - the Inmate is in jail, and inside that hospital room runs by my rule. Security is #1.

[VtCO84]

we have an inmate at our facility who is constantly going to the hospital due to self harm. his lower arms look like grand canyons of destruction, massive amounts of scare tissue and he will rip them open, bite it open and then shove whatever he has handy into it. the local hospitals know him very well, and basically dislike him alot, even though he is very well behaved on the hospital trips.

the last time I took him to the hospital a young nurse said "well if it isn't our favorite psycho" to a co-worker as we walked by. He heard it, and asked me what she said. I calmed him down him down and spoke to the nurse. she said "i can say whatever i want" i agreed, but i informed her that it was 3 in morning and i didn't feel like wrestling with him in the ER because she has no tact. she then stated again that she could say whatever she wants, i asked her if she wanted to say it to his face from about a foot away. she declined. i then spoke to her supervisor before we left. and i had to write a brief report when we got back to the facility.

i agree i'm not the boss of anyone in the ER, with the exception of my inmate. but when comments made by nurses, doctors, ETC. may aggravate my prisoner and cause a use of force i get pretty ****y. i'm not sure if i was in the wrong or not.

[Iowa #1603]

i agree i'm not the boss of anyone in the ER, with the exception of my inmate. but when comments made by nurses, doctors, ETC. may aggravate my prisoner and cause a use of force i get pretty ****y. i'm not sure if i was in the wrong or not.
You did good. The incident report and talking to the nurses supervisor will be used by both your and her administration to make sure those types of comments are not repeated (hopefully)

[glock17guy]

Having done both jobs, albeit Juvenile corrections.. I have two responses. First, I have worked in an Trauma center for 2 years and I carry a handcuff key every day. It is not illegal and it is very handy at times, just last night we had a GSW to the head that was handcuffed and could not get acess to his arms for an IV site, did anyone have a key? was PD in route? the answer to both is no... While the guy still died, without having a key, we would have had major issues.. I can think of many situations like this, where PD cuffs someone up and then makes it the the ER an hour later... On the other side of things, If in correctional custody, its your game and I am watchful (just like any other patient) of my situational security and personal security.
It really seems like you feel that ER staff doesnt understand the dangers you face.. fact is we face those types of threats every day.. While I understand your concern about the loose key, remember that most of us ( atlest were I work) will back you up in a second if things go south in that room and we dont have use of force guidelines:)

[srq screw]

...just last night we had a GSW to the head that was handcuffed...

ok, I am missing something here. how did the GSW get handcuffed in the first place?

[VtCO84]

You did good. The incident report and talking to the nurses supervisor will be used by both your and her administration to make sure those types of comments are not repeated (hopefully)

everyone is entitled to their opinion. I mean i've called that guy worse things out in the parking lot after shift. it's all about where and when you voice your opinions, that's all i was trying to express to that nurse but she just didnt get it.

[glock17guy]

good question... that ran through my head too.. he was also tased... I wasnt there so I dont question

[FiremanMike]

ok, I am missing something here. how did the GSW get handcuffed in the first place?

I know this is the corrections area, but I'll give some input as a street ghetto medic and a patrol officer. While I would certainly not pin that key to my badge to make it obvious to the prisoner who'd just looking for a reason to escape, there are quite a few times in medicine where people get extremely sick and/or die while handcuffed. At that point it's generally a massive cluster-**** to get them unhandcuffed (everyone is scrambling to do their thing, everyone bumps into everyone, no one is really at fault, it's just a cluster..).

If said hospital is the primary hospital for caring for your prisoners, I imagine this nurse has had that experience from time to time and was just trying to prepare for the next one. While bad form to carry it open and obvious, I'd say it's very responsible for those experienced providers..

Sorry if I ruffle feathers, just trying to give a different perspective.