Executive Order S-09-09

[417Lt]

Got this earlier today. It will affect a lot of folks but no one will say just how- yet.
EXECUTIVE ORDER S-09-09by theGovernor of the State of California
WHEREAS due to developments in the worldwide and national financial markets, and continuing weak performance in the California economy, the General Fund deficit for the 2009-2010 fiscal year is estimated to grow to $24.3 billion; and

WHEREAS the State Controller projects that as of July 29, 2009, California will not have the cash needed to meet all of its payment obligations; and

WHEREAS the projected budget deficit will require critical cuts to State programs and services, and additional borrowing from local governments; and

WHEREAS immediate action is needed to address the budget and cash crisis facing the State of California; and

WHEREAS immediate action to reduce current spending must be taken to ensure, to the maximum extent possible, that the essential services of the State are not jeopardized and the public health and safety is preserved; and

WHEREAS State agencies and departments under my direct executive authority must take all available steps to reduce their expenses to achieve budget and cash savings.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, Governor of the State of California, in accordance with the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the statutes of the State of California, do hereby issue the following orders to become effective immediately:

IT IS ORDERED that except for projects funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, or projects funded by bonds, grants or projects specifically mandated by court orders, or public-private partnerships that require no direct state expenditures, any funds encumbered on or after March 1, 2009, for contracts entered into for which goods or services have not been provided or for contracts proposed to be entered into during the 2008-2009 fiscal year by State agencies and departments, regardless of funding source, are hereby disencumbered and the funds will revert to their original funding source if no legal liability will be incurred by the State. If a legal liability will be incurred by the State, approval to continue encumbering the funds must be obtained from the Agency Secretary and the Director of the Department of Finance.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that by 30 days after the passage of a revised budget for fiscal year 2009-2010, all State departments, regardless of funding source, shall submit a plan to their Agency Secretary that provides for a reduction of the amount of the department's appropriation to be encumbered by new contracts, extended contracts or purchases from statewide master contracts in the 2009-2010 fiscal year by at least 15 percent, whether the reduction results from cancellation, suspension, renegotiation or otherwise.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that effective immediately and until a State department's plan is approved by the Agency Secretary, a State department is prohibited from entering into any new contracts, amending existing contracts, issuing purchase orders for goods or services, or making purchases from statewide master agreements or leveraged procurement agreements for goods or services.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Director of the Department of Finance shall establish an exemption process regarding all contract cost reduction measures contained in this Order that Agency Secretaries and Cabinet-level Directors shall utilize to determine if an exemption is justified based on an emergent situation to preserve and protect human life and safety; avoiding significant revenue loss; achieving significant net cost savings; maintaining multi-year IT system and service contracts approved by the Office of the Chief Information Officer; or providing critical services and functions.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the services and functions of state government directly related to the preservation and protection of human life and safety, including but not limited to emergency and disaster response activities and the provision of 24-hour medical care, shall be deemed critical and exempt from this Order.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that all Agency Secretaries and Department Directors shall take immediate action to implement this Order to reduce state expenditures.

IT IS REQUESTED that other entities of State government not under my direct executive authority, including the California Public Utilities Commission, the University of California, the California State University, California Community Colleges, the legislative branch (including the Legislative Counsel Bureau), and judicial branch, implement similar or other mitigation measures to achieve budget and cash savings and additional transparency in state government.

This Order is not intended to create, and does not create, any rights or benefits, whether substantive or procedural, or enforceable at law or in equity, against the State of California or its agencies, departments, entities, officers, employees, or any other person.

I FURTHER ORDER that, as soon as hereafter possible, this Order shall be filed in the Office of the Secretary of State and that widespread publicity and notice be given to this Order.




IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Great Seal of the State of California to be affixed this 8th day of June 2009.



ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER
Governor of California

[CrossFit]

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the services and functions of state government directly related to the preservation and protection of human life and safety, including but not limited to emergency and disaster response activities and the provision of 24-hour medical care, shall be deemed critical and exempt from this Order.


Does this mean CHP hiring will be business as usual.?

[08duramax]

i hope so. i am finally in backgrounds

[417Lt]

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the services and functions of state government directly related to the preservation and protection of human life and safety, including but not limited to emergency and disaster response activities and the provision of 24-hour medical care, shall be deemed critical and exempt from this Order.


Does this mean CHP hiring will be business as usual?
With the CHP I would say yes. All others- hard to say.

[BigHouseGreen]

What do you think? The governator loves the CHP. They are his bodyguards after all.

[SgtCHP]

What do you think? The governator loves the CHP. They are his bodyguards after all.

The CHP is funded from the Motor Vehicle Account - registration and driver licensing fees - not from the General Fund. The order affects General Fund Agencies only.

CHP has cut back on some programs in an effort to retain the employees that are under GF. All other operations are being continued as funded for the 2009-10 budgeting. Additionally, the order pertains to those who are currently employed not those who may become employed. That means that academy classes could be reduced to meet attrition levels only in an attempt to maintain the status quo. Don't panic, there has been no action taken as yet.

Everyone needs to be calm. The economy is a nationwide issue and is not reserved for CA only.

[Doktor Rocket]

The CHP is funded from the Motor Vehicle Account - registration and driver licensing fees - not from the General Fund. The order affects General Fund Agencies only.

CHP has cut back on some programs in an effort to retain the employees that are under GF. All other operations are being continued as funded for the 2009-10 budgeting. Additionally, the order pertains to those who are currently employed not those who may become employed. That means that academy classes could be reduced to meet attrition levels only in an attempt to maintain the status quo. Don't panic, there has been no action taken as yet.

Everyone needs to be calm. The economy is a nationwide issue and is not reserved for CA only.
SgtCHP,

That is easy for you to say. You have not had to endure a 10% pay cut, lose two holiday's, no OT for working holiday's, can't take holiday time during the pay period because when you are then ordered to work OT it is paid as straight time until your hours equal the holiday hours that you took. You are still a state employee and all CHP's should have to endure the same pain that the rest of us are feeling. But that's right, you are the Governators bodyguards. The CHP did not want Corrections tied into their contract of 2001-2006. Maybe you didn't know that CCPOA carried your water to get that legislation passed. The CHP will always be $666.00 ahead of Correctional Officers but now you guys are way ahead of us. When we eventually get these reductions back the state will say that we got a raise. Why don't you guys step up and volunteer to help out the State tax payers by accepting a 15% pay cut. Remember you are a State employee. I remember when CCPOA deferred $108M to help out the state the last time we were in dire straights. Then we had to go to court to get it back. Don't talk the talk unless you're prepared to walk the walk!

[Blackavar]

The last people in LE who need to be complaining about pay are correctional deputies. You have the strongest LE union in the state, if not the nation.

[L-1]

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that effective immediately... a State department is prohibited from entering into any new contracts, amending existing contracts, issuing purchase orders for goods or services, or making purchases from statewide master agreements or leveraged procurement agreements for goods or services.


That means every General Fund agency is going to run out of paper in about five days and not be able to purchase any more.

Can you picture a government agency being able to operate without paper?

[SgtCHP]

SgtCHP, That is easy for you to say.

Funny, I don't see anything in my post that is degrading to other agencies. I have stated nothing but the truth! I will not resort to attacks on agencies - state, county, municipal or otherwise. The financial issues are a fact of today and tomorrow.

I am retired and have been for 17 years. My income has not kept up with any state agencies including the CHP. My choice of life's career was my choice. My retirement was my choice. I am resigned to suffer this economic issue just as anyone in the nation.

So, you would have me do what?

Complaining in these forums is not going to alter the facts at hand. I am thankful that God blessed my family and me with the ability to live a somewhat comfortable and rewarding life. Now, nearing the end of that period, I am resolved to allowing the younger men and women do their part.

Hope you have a better day!

[Doktor Rocket]

The last people in LE who need to be complaining about pay are correctional deputies. You have the strongest LE union in the state, if not the nation.

What is a Correctional Deputy? I think you know not what you are talking about. I guess you have never been in the position to take a 20% pay cut and belong to a bargaining unit that the state imposed an LBF (Last, Best, Final) after less than 10 hours of negotiations. All this after catching the Governator lying no less than 3 times during this short process. The Govenator has made it perfectly clear that he is trying to break our union. After you have walked the walk, you can talk the talk.

[BigHouseGreen]

The CHP is funded from the Motor Vehicle Account - registration and driver licensing fees - not from the General Fund. The order affects General Fund Agencies only.

CHP has cut back on some programs in an effort to retain the employees that are under GF. All other operations are being continued as funded for the 2009-10 budgeting. Additionally, the order pertains to those who are currently employed not those who may become employed. That means that academy classes could be reduced to meet attrition levels only in an attempt to maintain the status quo. Don't panic, there has been no action taken as yet.

Everyone needs to be calm. The economy is a nationwide issue and is not reserved for CA only.

Sarge, I know how the funds and all that go. Believe me if I worked for CHP I would be happy that we haven't been touched either. Its just us as a dept. we already have a 10% reduction in pay, some facing layoffs and now another possible 5% wage cut. This is a state wide problem not just a general fund problem. State parks are looking at being shut down and some park rangers facing lay offs also.

[KJB]

Don't blame the CHP. I know it sucks but the CHP's pay isn't the issue. They are still under paid just as CA DOC is, any pay cut they take will not be given back easily. The issue is a government trying to take care of those not willing to work for themselves. I say start cutting welfare in the name of public safety. The more social programs a government has the worse off it is.

[Blackavar]

What is a Correctional Deputy? I think you know not what you are talking about. I guess you have never been in the position to take a 20% pay cut and belong to a bargaining unit that the state imposed an LBF (Last, Best, Final) after less than 10 hours of negotiations. All this after catching the Governator lying no less than 3 times during this short process. The Govenator has made it perfectly clear that he is trying to break our union. After you have walked the walk, you can talk the talk.

If you prefer Correctional Officer that is fine by me. I'm not going to split hairs with you. Many people call my dept (Orange County Sheriff Department) OCSO. I don't care. Not that big of a deal. I worked 8 years in the jail so I have worked in your shoes. If you belong to what you perceive as a weak bargaining unit then blame them, not the CHP. Yes, that's me...talking the talk.

[Blackavar]

I know it sucks but the CHP's pay isn't the issue. They are still under paid just as CA DOC .


CA DOC is not comparitively underpaid. According to their own website (http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Career_Opportunities/POR/docs/payandbenefits.pdf) they top out at $6,144 per month. That's $74k a year not including OT and benefits.
If other DOC's are paying better I'm out of the loop.

I agree whole heartedly with the rest of your post though.

[KJB]

The Washinton State Patrol starts out ($46,704 after academy) at more than a WA DOC officer ($45288) tops out at. They top out at $70584. I know California has a higher cost of living but still.

[Blackavar]

The Washinton State Patrol starts out ($46,704 after academy) at more than a WA DOC officer ($45288) tops out at. They top out at $70584. I know California has a higher cost of living but still.

Ca does have a higher cost of living but it also depends on where you live in the state. I also understand (but could be wrong) that CADOC pay can fluctuate based on where you are assigned. And your post is confusing me a bit. Wa Patrol starts at $46,704 and WADOC starts at $45,288. Who tops out at what?
I also think comparing PD's/SO's to DOC is apples and oranges. DOC's should be compared to DOC's.

[KJB]

Ca does have a higher cost of living but it also depends on where you live in the state. I also understand (but could be wrong) that CADOC pay can fluctuate based on where you are assigned. And your post is confusing me a bit. Wa Patrol starts at $46,704 and WADOC starts at $45,288. Who tops out at what?
I also think comparing PD's/SO's to DOC is apples and oranges. DOC's should be compared to DOC's.

WA DOC TOPS out at $45,288. WSP TOPS out at $72,348

[Doktor Rocket]

Who's blaming CHP. And who said that I belonged to a weak bargaining unit? Don't remember ever saying that CCPOA was weak. All I said was maybe CHP could man up and be part of the solution. Voluntarily offer to give back their raise with the false promise from the state that they will get it back when times get better. Been there twice in my 20 + years with the state. Oh and I actually prefer Guard because that is what I am. My question was what is a Correctional Deputy. Never heard it expressed that way. In 12 years with Yuba County it was either Jail Deputy or Patrol Deputy. So how much of a pay cut have you had to endure? Probably nothing I'm thinking. That's what I mean by "talk the talk after you have walked the walk".

[L-1]

The CHP did not want Corrections tied into their contract of 2001-2006.

FWIW, tying one union's contract to that of another's can be suicide for both unions.

I believe CAHP represents around 6,000 members while CCPOA represents around 26,000. It's one thing for CAHP to negotiate (say) a 5% raise for 6,000 people. But if as an unintended consequence of granting that raise, it means 26,000 more people will also get a raise without further contract negotiations or concessions, DPA will shoot down CAHP in a heartbeat. CAHP will have failed in it's responsibility to represent its members and CCPOA will have failed in its responsibility to represent its members because it relied in CAHP to negotiate on its behalf in a no-win situation. Obviously, there would be hard feelings all around.

Similarly, let's assume the tables were turned and CAHP's contract was based on what CCPOA negotiated. Let's also assume CAHP had a unique contract need, but at the negotiating table, DPA said that in order for CAHP to get it, CCPOA would have to give up something in their contract. Would this be a fair request of CCPOA's membership?

While linking contracts may seem like a benefit, the drawbacks can be worse and management can even use it to pit unions against each other. In the long run, not linking CCPOA and CAHP together was a wise move for both.

[Doktor Rocket]

FWIW, tying one union's contract to that of another's can be suicide for both unions.

I believe CAHP represents around 6,000 members while CCPOA represents around 26,000. It's one thing for CAHP to negotiate (say) a 5% raise for 6,000 people. But if as an unintended consequence of granting that raise, it means 26,000 more people will also get a raise without further contract negotiations or concessions, DPA will shoot down CAHP in a heartbeat. CAHP will have failed in it's responsibility to represent its members and CCPOA will have failed in its responsibility to represent its members because it relied in CAHP to negotiate on its behalf in a no-win situation. Obviously, there would be hard feelings all around.

Similarly, let's assume the tables were turned and CAHP's contract was based on what CCPOA negotiated. Let's also assume CAHP had a unique contract need, but at the negotiating table, DPA said that in order for CAHP to get it, CCPOA would have to give up something in their contract. Would this be a fair request of CCPOA's membership?

While linking contracts may seem like a benefit, the drawbacks can be worse and management can even use it to pit unions against each other. In the long run, not linking CCPOA and CAHP together was a wise move for both.

By your post it's obvious that you know nothing of the negotiations that took place for the 2001-2006 Collective Bargaining Agreement. CHP did not have the bargaining power to get their contract passed by themselves. They came to CCPOA asking for CCPOA's help in pushing through legislation for the contract. Their raise, and CCPOA's was tied to the weighted average of 5 Departments statewide (can't remember all of them). Then when CCPOA and CHP were negotiating a new contract, CHP wanted nothing to do with CCPOA. They had already worked an under the table deal with the Governator. So see the contracts were tied together for 5 years.

[417Lt]

It sounds like the CHP was just smarter than the rest of us; or at least better at the game.:D
That's OK. I love my job and I'm happy to have it. I can work all day and not see another human being. I couldn't imagine having a beat that I could throw a rock across.
The CHP does need to remember however- The higher they put themselves on a pedestal, the bigger and easier a target they are.

[L-1]

By your post it's obvious that you know nothing of the negotiations that took place for the 2001-2006 Collective Bargaining Agreement. CHP did not have the bargaining power to get their contract passed by themselves. They came to CCPOA asking for CCPOA's help in pushing through legislation for the contract. Their raise, and CCPOA's was tied to the weighted average of 5 Departments statewide (can't remember all of them). Then when CCPOA and CHP were negotiating a new contract, CHP wanted nothing to do with CCPOA. They had already worked an under the table deal with the Governator. So see the contracts were tied together for 5 years.

I fear that you have lost me on that one. CHP's base salary, educational incentive pay, physical
performance pay, longevity pay, and retirement contributions are based on Government Code section 19827(1), which requires that they be the average of the Los Angeles Police Department, Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office, San Diego Police Department, Oakland Police Department, and San Francisco Police Departments. There was a problem in the early 2000's when the state was not adhering with that section of law and CAHP had to sue to gain compliance.

But I think you missed the point of my message as there are other things to be negotiated in the contract AS WELL. That point is that when you are negotiating for those other things for a small group, especially ones that cost money or set a precedent, DPA is not going to be willing to agree to them if they automatically roll over to a much larger group, without that group having to negotiate for them (and possibly give something up for them in return) as well. Consequently, the small group's likelihood of success in future negotiations is pretty much down the tubes when the two are tied together.

[SgtCHP]

Just a reminder that the CHP is the only agency in the State that had a firmed contract in force when all of the stuff began rolling down hill. All other bargaining units were overconfident in their negotiations and held out for more, more, more! The CHP officers and employees do not place themselves on any pedastal or put themselves above all others. In fact, there are few bargaining units in the state with so few employees.

When I entered the agency in 1966 from another agency, the CHP was the highest paid law enforcement agency in the state and all other agencies were wheeling and dealing to be equally paid. Well, they were successful. So successful in their negotiations that LAPD and LASD retirees are making more money than they were when they were working because the retirees' pay raises are predicated on the actives' pay raises.

During the 1970s, the CHP pay and benefits lagged sorely behind and that is when the foundation was laid for Government Code section 19827(1).

The CDCR did not "...carry (our) water..." They were tied to the CHP negotiations wrongly. The courts have ruled that in collective bargaining, all units must be involved in their own negotiations singularly; not, collectively. Especially when their funding is from two separate sources - CHP from the Motor Vehicle Fund and Corrections from the General Fund.

To sit back and cast aspersions towards any single agency does nothing to congeal the bargaining units into a cohesive group. It separates them and makes some to look like the forlorn child.

We all participate in creating our own future. We seek employment within the career of our abilities. As such, we hold a responsibility to represent that agency with professional comportment and pride. Putting down another state agency does nothing in that respect.

Prior to 1979 we all belonged to the "California State Employees Association" (CSEA) and there were no individual bargaining units. We were one and raises and benefits were predicated on who was able to get close to the legislature. Animosity and jealousy were still the ugly dragon in those days. I think it is time that all units gather as one. Care for their employees and negotiate thoughtfully and smartly - perhaps the state could then balance the issues.

Name calling, casting aspersions and jealousy do nothing but breed contempt.

[Garbage Man]

Who is responsible for what contract is really not the point. The CDCR is grossly overpaid, even with your cutback you make way more than you should, which is a result of the deal you guys signed with Davis which in the private sector is what they call a "Poison Pill."

Although I did find it funny hearing an OC Sheriff talking about being over paid. Your Dep's in the jail make an insane amount of coin for what they do. We had guys who were top step with a 5% rank pay on top go over and make the same amount of money as a Dep 1 jailer pushing buttons or saying "All rise in the court." We use a security company making $8.00 and hour to run our jail. Your special deputies ought to take over the whole business like they do in other counties but that would reduce your agency size by half.

Here's the deal, times were good for a while and many agencies got good contracts out of those times. Times suck now and there will be rollbacks.

What sucks is when you have an agency like mine. We have never been "Over funded." We have always had fewer cops than anyone else in the area and have never been a high paying department. We use lower paid civilians for anything we can to reduce our manpower and now, like everyone else, we are expected to cut back, but we have no where to cut. We looked at going sheriffs but could not afford it. If the Obama $$ doesn’t come through for us we are going to down size (Hopefully through attrition) and this town is gonna be a shooting gallery. Honestly I don’t know anyone who can take more of a load. Detectives work about 80 cases, patrol guys are swamped from beginning to end of their shift, we have nobody in any task force, we have no cushion.

And our retirement pension is toast. We will be lucky if they let us tier it off at 3 @55 for new hires.

[Blackavar]

GM, I can't disagree with your thought process on that. You department has always been underpaid and understaffed and I also think I know which GG you are talking about. Had one of your guys come over and I worked with him in the jails. He's a good guy and a Sgt. now.

I have been advocating sheriff special officers in the jails for years. It would cust costs and make it easier for deputies to go to the streets. The new sheriff has proposed something similar but our union is fighting it because it will lessen their membership numbers.

Now, you didn't hear me complain about my pay or the pay my compadres in the jail make. What you heard was me telling the DOC guy he shouldn't complain about his pay. I'm surely not complaining about mine.

Also, it is a bone of contention with patrol deputies that the jail deputies make the same pay.

[SoCalSheriff]

Also, it is a bone of contention with patrol deputies that the jail deputies make the same pay.
In my department, we have two types of employees working the jails. We have Correctional Deputies - they work corrections only. They are non sworn, can only work the jails, and start at $2781(gross) per month.

We also have Deputy Sheriffs - they usually start in the jails, spend 12-36 months there before going out to patrol. They are sworn, do the exact same job as a Correctional Deputy and start at $4411 per month.

Now the patrol guys are just happy to be out of the jails so there isn't really any animosity between them and the Jail deps. But If I was a Correctional Deputy, I would be pretty PO'd.

[Blackavar]

There's no animosity per se between jail deps and patrol deps in my department. Its just that there is so much more work to do on patrol vs. jail that it seems the two jobs are not comparable. Some guys on patrol feel there should be different pay scales for the two jobs because there is such a difference in the work load.

In your dept. deps spend 12-36 months in the jail before going to patrol. Our minimum jail time right now is 8 YEARS. This is another thing that could be alleviated by hiring non-sworn staff or SSO's to man the jails. Your deputies may be doing the same job as the non-sworn but they are only doing it for 12-36 months. In my opinion that is great training for the streets. The regular deputies go to the streets, carry guns, enforce the laws....yada yada yada.....they should get paid more. Now, if all they did for their career was sit in the jail turning knobs then they should not get paid the same.

[Garbage Man]

Blackaver in Green, me in Blue (get it?)
GM, I can't disagree with your thought process on that. You department has always been underpaid and understaffed and I also think I know which GG you are talking about. Had one of your guys come over and I worked with him in the jails. He's a good guy and a Sgt. now.

Doesnt narrow down too much, I think all our guys are SGT's now. One guy was a SGT on the Harbor Patrol Boat inside of 6 months, that triggered a mass exodus.

I have been advocating sheriff special officers in the jails for years. It would cust costs and make it easier for deputies to go to the streets. The new sheriff has proposed something similar but our union is fighting it because it will lessen their membership numbers.

Ok good I was afraid my opinion on this would tic you off, but really it's just common sense. Its agreat luxury if you can afford it but you cant.

Now, you didn't hear me complain about my pay or the pay my compadres in the jail make. What you heard was me telling the DOC guy he shouldn't complain about his pay. I'm surely not complaining about mine.

Right I know you would not complain about your pay, it was the irony that amused me. I see we agree here also.

Also, it is a bone of contention with patrol deputies that the jail deputies make the same pay.


I understand. It amazes me that people can spend their whole career in your agency in the jails. 8 years as a jailer then make SGT. 8 more years in the jail. I think it is mostly a question of how little area you patrol Vs. How big the county is. Look at some of of the LASD contrac cities, Lakewood, Bellflower, Carson, cities these size in the OC would have huge PD's all their own. I am waiting for some of the south OC cities to talk about their own PD's.

What you guys should really do is use special Deps and take over everybodies jail. Have regular Deps out in the field to pick up agencies arrest, even have one EMT crew in an ambulance for the medical arrests. Your agency would expand a whole lot and make the booking process in this county run smoothly. But nobody in management thinks like that.

[Blackavar]

I understand. It amazes me that people can spend their whole career in your agency in the jails. 8 years as a jailer then make SGT. 8 more years in the jail. I think it is mostly a question of how little area you patrol Vs. How big the county is. Look at some of of the LASD contrac cities, Lakewood, Bellflower, Carson, cities these size in the OC would have huge PD's all their own. I am waiting for some of the south OC cities to talk about their own PD's.

What you guys should really do is use special Deps and take over everybodies jail. Have regular Deps out in the field to pick up agencies arrest, even have one EMT crew in an ambulance for the medical arrests. Your agency would expand a whole lot and make the booking process in this county run smoothly. But nobody in management thinks like that.

It amazes me too. It is real easy to get complacent and comfortable in the jail. Guys get hired based on being told the jail time is much less. After so many years in the jail they have good pay, a family, a good schedule, seniority in the jail. In short they have a good gig. Part of me really doesn't blame some of them for stayin in the jail. Especially those who stay for family reasons. I say that because nothing comes before family. Many use it as an excuse though. I decided early on that I didn't want to retire as a jail deputy.

As far as going straight from the jail to sgt without any patrol experience....I only know two people who did that. One is retired and the other is.....well, that's PM material. As far as south OC cities talking about their own PD's....I can think of Laguna Beach and Irvine. There aren't any cities south of the 5/405 that have their own PD's. Unless your dividing line is further north.

Management doesn't think like us because they are management. The way the jails are run and who they will accept or not accept directly affects the quality of life for the people we serve as well as how we do our job. I feel sorry for the OC guys who work far south because of how far they have to travel to book someone in. I have heard there is a jail cell in a south city but they don't use it for some reason. Its all backwards.

[BigHouseGreen]

I don't remember who it was that said we are overpaid for what we do but I think they were thinking a non sworn jailer/correctional deputy is the same as a state correctional officer. This is the farthest thing from the truth. We are not just in pods turning knobs. We work in 100 man dorms or 200 man housing units not in any pod but around all the boys in blue. Work an exercise yard that may have upwards of 400 inmates on it at any one time. We have medical clinics and medical personnel to provide safety and security for, education/vocational education, work sites, kitchens, visiting areas and administrative segregation/shu/bmu and all this within a fingers length of all these knuckleheads. Not to mention an average of 9 assaults a day and an upper management that really don't give a rat's ***** about their employees. Yes we are also sworn unlike county correctional deputies/custody assistants or sheriff service officers.

I am not at all complaining about my pay just complaining keep my pay what it was when I took the job. That is all I care for. I am not putting down another state agency or any other law enforcement agency. CA cost of living is very high compared to other states as well as health care. I lived comfortably with the salary I was making and to have it taken away for just being a state worker who happens to be paid from the general fund and yet let lazy *** people keep their government benefits or watch these criminals in prison get better health care that the average person really ****es me off. So all I was saying is if state law enforcement agencies are going to take hits on pay then it should be all of them. Because like I said it is not just the general fund that is going broke it is the whole state.

Yes I do agree with whomever it was that said CHP puts themselves on a pedestal. They do. I'm not saying its a bad thing but I can see how it can create some animosity with other law enforcement agencies.

[Blackavar]

I don't remember who it was that said we are overpaid for what we do but I think they were thinking a non sworn jailer/correctional deputy is the same as a state correctional officer.

You are probably thinking of me. I said to not complain about the pay because it is still good pay. I never said they were overpaid.


This is the farthest thing from the truth. We are not just in pods turning knobs. We work in 100 man dorms or 200 man housing units not in any pod but around all the boys in blue. Work an exercise yard that may have upwards of 400 inmates on it at any one time. We have medical clinics and medical personnel to provide safety and security for, education/vocational education, work sites, kitchens, visiting areas and administrative segregation/shu/bmu and all this within a fingers length of all these knuckleheads. Not to mention an average of 9 assaults a day and an upper management that really don't give a rat's ***** about their employees. Yes we are also sworn unlike county correctional deputies/custody assistants or sheriff service officers.

I am not at all complaining about my pay just complaining keep my pay what it was when I took the job. That is all I care for. I am not putting down another state agency or any other law enforcement agency. CA cost of living is very high compared to other states as well as health care. I lived comfortably with the salary I was making and to have it taken away for just being a state worker who happens to be paid from the general fund and yet let lazy *** people keep their government benefits or watch these criminals in prison get better health care that the average person really ****es me off.

So all I was saying is if state law enforcement agencies are going to take hits on pay then it should be all of them. Because like I said it is not just the general fund that is going broke it is the whole state.

Great, then give all of the other agencies your benefits too. Seriously though, if counties and cities have run themselves in a proper manner and aren't in the same boat as the state who hasn't, you can not ask them to make a sacrifice because your employer (the state) is run by idiots. My county is trying to take away our 3@50 retirement and re-instate the 2@55. It is not going to happen because their legal argument is unsound but you don't see me out there pretending to be chicken little.

Yes I do agree with whomever it was that said CHP puts themselves on a pedestal. They do. I'm not saying its a bad thing but I can see how it can create some animosity with other law enforcement agencies.

Yes they do. I am sorry but as an agency they do this. The individual officers are good and I have a good working relationship with them. But between their brass, the media and the general citizenry they can almost do no wrong.

See we agreed on something :)

[417Lt]

I'm glad someone agrees with my pedestal comment because I know it is true. If they had real wisdom they would take their lumps with the rest of us to better protect the status quo, (which is way in their favor). What is at risk for many agencies is to have the whole State system looked at real close and take a chance at how things might end up.

[Garbage Man]

Im just throwing this out there, I have not seen the #'s but I know how much $$$ our motors make for us so I am thinkin' there might be something to this.

Maybe they dont want to tic off the CHP, not because they are the Gov's bodyguards, but because they make the state $$$ with citation revenues.

Again I have no idea what the revenue stream is, and would shut my mouth immediatly if someone like SGTCHP told me I was wrong, but I suspect a CHP citation slow down would be costly.

And yes they are very proud of their agency but I have never met an arrogant CHP officer..All the ones I have met have been very humble, usually because they had stepped off the freeway and were in a new realm without any clue how to resolve what they just stepped in, and I was helping them out. Thats not to say they were not good cops, if you dont deal with somethiing complicated every day then you dont know how to do it, thats all. Like me and long form TC's.

Now there is a certain other agency who I do think is arrogant without cause but that was another thread.

[SgtCHP]

Maybe they dont want to tic off the CHP, not because they are the Gov's bodyguards, but because they make the state $$$ with citation revenues.

Again I have no idea what the revenue stream is, and would shut my mouth immediatly if someone like SGTCHP told me I was wrong, but I suspect a CHP citation slow down would be costly.

Actually, fines and penalties from Tickets issued by the CHP go to the City and County wherein the violation took place. It is those cities and counties that suffer if there were a slow down - which there will not be.

I made it my goal to get along well with all of the allied agencies with whom I came in contact. I don't bad mouth an agency and will not. We all have our cross to bear and those who have a tendency to put down, or cast aspersions on any agency, do so because of misunderstanding, rumor, jealousy or envy. As I stated in my previous post, we all made our career choice and attacking another agency is just plain wrong.

I know of no CHP officer who places him/herself above another agency officer. They will stand, and have stood, shoulder to shoulder with a number of agencies in this state in the times of need, mutual aid, support and honor.

I take a personal affront to some of the unnecessary statements made by a few and suggest that they reflect on their own backgrounds and experiences.

The issues we face as a state are not caused by the CHP. If they do any suffering in these times, I don't imagine you will see any of them in these forums, or any other, complaining that another agency is being favored over them or blaming those agencies for the economy as it stands today.

I am sorry for your issues but, unless you take another road - retirement or lateral to another agency - I don't see your problems resolving without the passage of time. We all suffer together as one irrespective of state, county or city. Do the best you can with what you have and things will eventually work out and the economy will recover. If not, consider practicing using the word "Comrade" when you address anyone.

[1Deputy1Riot]

At our agency we just deferred raises for an agreement of no gets laid off. The way I see it is, I would take a bullet for damn near any cop out there going through a door with you, yet I am not supposed to be willing to take a pay cut to keep you employed? If you are in law enforcement for money quit now. CHP, I love those guys, I hate traffic. Yet each time I have a traffic question all I have to do is ask. CDC, over paid? I hated my jail time and those guys have nowhere to go. God bless them....And you guys, who speak of PERS, ha must be nice. I go to work each day and love my job, I love what I do and when pay day comes around I don’t get into my BMW and drive to the bank. I get in my Chevy pickup and drive to the bank thinking, man life could be worse.

[Doktor Rocket]

I don't remember who it was that said we are overpaid for what we do but I think they were thinking a non sworn jailer/correctional deputy is the same as a state correctional officer. This is the farthest thing from the truth. We are not just in pods turning knobs. We work in 100 man dorms or 200 man housing units not in any pod but around all the boys in blue. Work an exercise yard that may have upwards of 400 inmates on it at any one time. We have medical clinics and medical personnel to provide safety and security for, education/vocational education, work sites, kitchens, visiting areas and administrative segregation/shu/bmu and all this within a fingers length of all these knuckleheads. Not to mention an average of 9 assaults a day and an upper management that really don't give a rat's ***** about their employees. Yes we are also sworn unlike county correctional deputies/custody assistants or sheriff service officers.

I am not at all complaining about my pay just complaining keep my pay what it was when I took the job. That is all I care for. I am not putting down another state agency or any other law enforcement agency. CA cost of living is very high compared to other states as well as health care. I lived comfortably with the salary I was making and to have it taken away for just being a state worker who happens to be paid from the general fund and yet let lazy *** people keep their government benefits or watch these criminals in prison get better health care that the average person really ****es me off. So all I was saying is if state law enforcement agencies are going to take hits on pay then it should be all of them. Because like I said it is not just the general fund that is going broke it is the whole state.

Yes I do agree with whomever it was that said CHP puts themselves on a pedestal. They do. I'm not saying its a bad thing but I can see how it can create some animosity with other law enforcement agencies.

Actually it was Garbage Man who said that CDC was "grossly" overpaid. I don't remember anyone from CDC saying that the OCSD was overpaid. I think that we in law enforcement earn every dime that we are paid, no matter what agency you work for. I came from an S.O. where pay at the time was terrible. I came to the state for the benefits for my family. I have no shame in telling you that my first week in a prison scared the absolute s**t outta me. County jail was nothing like the "Big House". If Garbage Man wants to learn to read and write, he can come over and take our test. If he can pass it, he can be one of us and also be "grossly overpaid".

[Blackavar]

Actually it was Garbage Man who said that CDC was "grossly" overpaid. I don't remember anyone from CDC saying that the OCSD was overpaid. I think that we in law enforcement earn every dime that we are paid, no matter what agency you work for. I came from an S.O. where pay at the time was terrible. I came to the state for the benefits for my family. I have no shame in telling you that my first week in a prison scared the absolute s**t outta me. County jail was nothing like the "Big House". If Garbage Man wants to learn to read and write, he can come over and take our test. If he can pass it, he can be one of us and also be "grossly overpaid".

And no one from OCSD said CDC was overpaid either.:)

[hbliam]

You guys need to chill a bit. If you want to discuss the issues, discuss the issues. Insulting remarks just make you look immature and unprofessional.

[FPenCo]

as a law enforcement community we all stand together, and we always will. it just seems like cdc has been targeted by GAS to take the most heat. Have a safe shift every one. From a csp-lac C.O.

[Garbage Man]

Actually it was Garbage Man who said that CDC was "grossly" overpaid. I don't remember anyone from CDC saying that the OCSD was overpaid. I think that we in law enforcement earn every dime that we are paid, no matter what agency you work for. I came from an S.O. where pay at the time was terrible. I came to the state for the benefits for my family. I have no shame in telling you that my first week in a prison scared the absolute s**t outta me. County jail was nothing like the "Big House". If Garbage Man wants to learn to read and write, he can come over and take our test. If he can pass it, he can be one of us and also be "grossly overpaid".

Yes I did say they were grossly over paid and sorry, but if you compare their salary with other states they are. They took a huge raise as Gray Davis left office and their lobby is probably the 2nd most powerful in the state. That said I know how to read and write just fine thank you, but I don't think I would want that job and would have to take a pay cut to get it. that's right, I said they are over paid and yet I make more than them. How controversial.

Every other agency in the state experienced 3 to 5% raises over the last few decades, your union earned you a huge raise that increased the states budget 1 Billion Dollars over the last 10 years. And bumping you up to full 3 @ 50 PERS is one of the primary reasons PERS may not survive.

I get that you are state "Peace Officers," but your still just prison guards regardless of title and the recent pay increases by your huge membership is statistically one of the many reasons our state is going belly up.

As far as learning how to read then transferring, is there a single member of the CDC who wouldn't lateral to ANY PD if they could? But you cant because you are not trained like we are, you only graduated a correctional academy that has one weekend of PT and the simplest state test of any state employees.

The reason you are taking cuts and the CHP is not is that they are real cops and you're not. You are overpaid and they are not.

As far as why attack brother officers? The CDC started the attack on my brother officers in the CHP suggesting they should take a pay cut so the guards could make more $$. My brothers are cops not guards.

[DCH]

You guys need to chill a bit. If you want to discuss the issues, discuss the issues. Insulting remarks just make you look immature and unprofessional.

bump

[SHU]

Yes I did say they were grossly over paid and sorry, but if you compare their salary with other states they are.

I use to be a C/O in NYC and Raleigh, NC. I'd say that all the other states grossly under pay their Correction Officers. CA is one a the few states that pay them appropriately.

[BigHouseGreen]

Blackavar, we actually on more than you think. I agree the state should not take from the cities and counties. And I agree the state is ran by idiots. I also agree that I don't think your retirement will be set back to the 2.5@55 because us in CDCr have seen the arguments because ours was also being looked at to.

Garbageman, you are like alot of the media out there blaming our union and our pay and benefits the reason for the woes in the state. If our union was so powerful why is that we were slapped with a LBFO, 10 paycut in the form of furloughs and looking at the layoff of over 1000 officers when we are already down officers up and down the state? Also, the reason why CDCr's budget is so huge is because of the federal receivership of our medical care. Nothing to do with custody.

I really don't care whether you want to call us prison guard, correctional officers or anything else because I am comfortable with what our classification is. I don't know what agency you work for nor do I care but CDCr does not just include correctional officers but also parole agents.

I also don't remember putting down any other agency. All I was saying was that if the state is in a bind then ALL state agencies need to pull the weight and that the state shall not favor one agency over the other. I also said that when I applied there was certain pay and benefits that I agreed to when i applied and all I want is to keep that pay and those benefits. I am all for taking a pay cut to keep brother officers employed but how much more is the state going to ask of us (CDCr). We already have a 10% pay cut, lost two holidays, lost holiday pay on holidays and some officers looking at layoffs. Now if there is no state budget we may be looking at making minimum wage.

I also stand by what I said when I said CHP puts themselves on a pedestal. I have met alot of good officers in CHP and cannot complain about them especially since they have shown professional courtesy but when you have a recruiter put down the LAPD and LASD because they didn't send anyone out to New Orleans during Katrina but the CHP did then turn around and say they are the premier law enforcement agency in the state then yes they put themselves above other agencies.

[pulicords]

This infighting and fingerpointing is not only stupid, it's exactly what those who oppose providing reasonable pay and benefits to LEOs want. I don't know what agency you work for GM, but I'm sure someone on another department could claim you're overpaid too (no I don't believe that to be true). There's LE agencies out there that might be busy, but have "cushy" assignments within them, and other departments that might be generally quiet, until the stuff hits the fan and then those officers earn every penny paid. We all face risks and corrections officers certainly earn their dollars.

Personally, I wouldn't want to work in corrections because I'd prefer the variety of "customers" who weren't all convicted felons. Dealing with the occasional "law abiding" citizen, not worrying about being "gassed" at any time, and taking a lunch break outside a secure facility made my "regular" LE position a bit more bearable, but that's just me. CDC had a very difficult time filing positions when the state's economic situation was doing better and they needed increased pay and benefits to attract and retain qualified personnel just like 830.1 PC departments did.

I don't begrudge them a bit for doing everything they could to improve their situation and the peoples' elected representatives signed on to those contracts. If the public didn't want those politicians making the deals they did, then the electorate could/should have made their feelings known at the polls. CalPERS will survive (it's seen tough times before) and if it (and government generally) didn't, I hope you have a large stash of ammunition to defend you and your family with, because a state without the ability to provide public safety would be a very nasty place to live. I got into this profession because I knew that:
1) The most important reason for government to exist is to provide for basic public safety (via police/fire/judicial services).
2) Without public safety being provided, anarchy is the only alternative.
3) Citizens in this country now expect and demand professional public safety employees.
4) Citizens aren't going to get the kind of services they demand without paying for them and meeting the obligations they agreed to.

No matter what kind of LE you might be a part of, we're all interdependent. Regular police and sheriff's deputies, specialized agencies, and CHP all rely on corrections personnel and facilities to handle their defendants (arrestees) once the case is adjudicated. If there are insufficient personnel to deal with the in-custodies, or insufficient locations to place prisoners (due to closures or money lost due to civil suits) our enforcement efforts will be meaningless. We can arrest the meanest SOBs in the state, but if the Federal Courts close down our prisons because inmates are "abused", "poorly supervised" or "negligently attended", they will be on the street sooner rather than later, whether we like it or not.

The problems we have in this state arise from a huge number of illegal aliens and others, who take but don't give (taxes) into the system and because legislators spend money without a set of priorities. Now is the time for them to understand what the public really wants from it's employees. Safety is and always has been the first concern. When crime rates increase due to a poor economy and a lack of jail/prison space, the people will hurt and expect us to clean up the mess. We will do so, and they will appreciate the price they pay for the piper to get the rats out of town. ;)

[IE Copper]

"Prison guards" are law enforcement officers just like local or state Police officers. We all have different jobs, working towards the same mission. Every parolee I violate, or every 11379 or 245 arrest I make adds one more dirtbag for a state correctional Officer to have to babysit.

Just because other states dont pay their guys enough does not mean the correctional Officers in CA are over paid. Correctional Officers have a very dangerous job and i give them props for working in such an environment. Yes, my academy may have been 26 weeks opposed to their much shorter academy, but the job they do is no less important just because they went through less training. Registered nurses go to school for longer than police Officers...does this mean their role in public service is better than mine? I dont think so.

[CriminalKillJoy]

After reading all of GarbageMan's posts regarding this topic it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I don't know you or ever had a conversation with you but the negative attitude you have toward us CO's isn't needed. Some of us do a damn good job not because we are "overpaid" but because we take pride in our profession.

Sure if you compare our salary with other states we may look overpaid. But the obvious thing here is the high cost of living in California.

We may not carry guns on the inside of our walls but some of us do perform routine parole sweeps in your neighborhoods, working side by side with your agencies dealing with the same dirtbags that you do.

Can we just agree that the law enforcement community as a whole is taking deep cuts right now and stop with the ridiculous finger pointing.

[KJB]

I use to be a C/O in NYC and Raleigh, NC. I'd say that all the other states grossly under pay their Correction Officers. CA is one a the few states that pay them appropriately.

I agree. When you factor in the cost of housing there compared to other state they are pretty underpaid (as are the other LEO's in CA). Tthe average cost of housing in California is (201.3% of US average) to the maximum salary of a CDCR (73K) officer you get a ratio of 36:1. When you compare that to the COH (103.8%) in Washington State to the maximum Salary of a WA DOC C/O (45K) you get a ratio of 43:1. In order for a maxed CDCR C/O to have the equivalent rate as a maxed WA DOC C/O they will need to make 87K a year.

[District B 13]

:DGeez...I was excited by this thread for a moment, I thought there would be less Chippies on the street and I could speed again...damn!

[BigHouseGreen]

:DGeez...I was excited by this thread for a moment, I thought there would be less Chippies on the street and I could speed again...damn!

LOL...no even the Chippies are undermanned I would hate to see anyone in law enforcement lose their jobs due to the bad economy.

[Blackavar]

I hate to see anyone lose their job in this bad economy.