OC Spray

[Fritz1363]

What type of OC spray do you use? Do you use the stuff that only has OC in it, or do you use the stuff that has CS and OC, like "Freeze +P"? I have been carrying "5.5% Pepper Mace" from Gall's but I wasn't too impressed with it the last time I sprayed someone. It made him close his eyes for about 30 min, but it didn't have any effect on his mucous membranes (i.e. no snot rockets and trouble breathing http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ). I just bought some "Punch III" after reading reviews of it and talking to officers at my department that do/have carried it. I guess I will see what happens the next time I'm in a situation that warrants the use of OC.

Fritz

[cajuncop]

I use Freeze + P and love it. I have only a very few instances where it didn't work. Usually on drunks it doesn't work too well, be other than that, no complaints.

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Without the support of our fellow officers, sometimes we have no support at all.

[Traffic Dog]

When any less-lethal option is used there is always the possibility it will have little or no effect on a subject. Studies have proven that OC has little or no effect on 14% of the population. Apply the factor that a lot of people we deal with, in an a OC warranted situation, are drunk and/or drug impaired that percentage may jump up as high as 20%.
What you may want to try is a higher concentration of OC, I carry 10%. The other option you already mentioned is the CS/OC combination. This combination works well because of the reaction temperatures they have with air. CS have a very low reaction temperature making it work instantly. OC has a higher reacting temperature but a longer lingering effect. When you combine the two you have the immediate kick of the CS with the lingering effect of OC.

[TasTrooper]

My department use BEACON O/C SPRAY. It's 5% oleoresin capsican and contains a flurescent die.
It is just great. There have been a few times when it hasn't worked that well (less than 10%) but that is usually when your crook is on speed. Then you just have to club em down.

Note; before you put your spray in it's pouch, hold the can as if you are going to deploy it, then place it in the pouch, so that way it is in the right position when you grab for it.

[nickg]

try giving "Phase IV" a test.

10% OC

13.3% major capsaicinoid content

2 million SHU

non water base (not diluted)

non alchohol base (not diluted or flammable)

no UV dyes (once again, not to dilute...and besides, if you need a UV dye in a product so you can identify and apprehend a perp after he has run off, then the product isnt that good to begin with...any good OC should put the guy DOWN for the count)

4 dispersions -- stream, foam, cone, and fog (crowd control unit)

coptop (thumb trigger w/positive safety lock) and quicktop (fliptop) actuators

variety of sizes from 3/4 oz. undercover unit, 2.5 oz., 3 oz, 4 oz., and 1 lb. crowd control unit

can be used in ANY position (inverted) because it has the largest diptube of any product on the market

does not have to be activated (shaken) before use

$10 million dollar product liability insurance

certified training programs

just my 2 cents, for what it's worth after taxes!



[This message has been edited by nickg (edited 03-28-2001).]

[John from Maryland]

We've used Bodyguard 5% for several years with good success. We have experimented with different spray patterns and cannisters. Our next purchase will be the "Quick-Top" cone spray.

You actually should look for the Scoville Heat Units rather than the percentage of OC itself. The percentage of OC does not tell you exactly how hot the product is as the pepper extract may vary in its "heat".

As Traffic Dog suggests, a higher percentage OC may work if you're staying with the same brand. The higher percentages may,however, increase decontamination time.

[mp200901]

Unfortuantely in England we are only allowed to carry 1 brand of CS that is licenced by the government for police use. Its drawbacks are 1: Immunity of approx 10% of population to cs 2: doesn't work on Dogs. 3: Aggressive/drugged up/****heads are often able to resist the effects. These are the people you most want to stop.
4:Another associated problem with CS spray, is the cross contamination of officers especially in confined areas. Trial statistics show that 78% of officers using CS spray were affected by cross contamination in varying degrees. This may lead to the situation where an officer is injured or the situation escalates out of control, due to the fact that the CS irritant has incapacitated the officer rather than the suspect who may be unaffected.

mjp

[This message has been edited by Michael J Pannell (edited 03-29-2001).]

[nickg]

quote:
"You actually should look for the Scoville Heat Units rather than the percentage of OC itself. The percentage of OC does not tell you exactly how hot the product is as the pepper extract may vary in its "heat".

not neccessariy true...some products claim to have a higher SHU rating, but if it has a lower percentage of extract per volume AND a lower over all capcaicinoid content then you are going to have a lesser quality product. its the proverbial "the sum is greater than its parts" scenario. you have to look at the overall product and not just one particular feature that may stand out. if you have an OC that rates itself at 3 million SHU but is refined down to a 1% pepper content after water, alcohol, and dyes have been added to the forumla it is not something i would be confident in. SHU ratings and hotness are are the same no matter what....a hot pepper is still a hot pepper. its just a matter of how potent and concentrated the overall formula is. as an example...take a package of Kool-Aid and put it in a 4 ounce glass and put the same ammount in a one gallon jug....you still have the same ammount of Kool-Aid, but by the time it has been diluted with the added water and other by-products, the concentration level is diminished considerably! as i said before, take a look at the total product formulation and not just one aspect of it.

[John from Maryland]

You're right, nickg. I was on my way out when I posted and didn't put enough thought into it. You're absolutely right about looking at the overall product rather than just one aspect of it. You obviously know your way around a cayenne pepper.

Has anyone had experience with the 10% Bodyguard? It's supposed to be the current NYPD OC spray. We're having problems locating the 5% in Quick Top.

By the way, nickg, I assume Phase IV is made by Guardian Products. I noticed you use the same terms for the trigger mechanisms that Bodyguard has.

Be safe and keep the wind at your back.

[nickg]

john from maryland

you are correct -- the Guardian plant manufactures Phase IV according to the specs I mentioned. the NYPD spray is a private label product for NYPD made by Guardian but based on Deftec specs and NOT Phase IV specs.

[Glockarmorer]

Originally posted by Fritz1363:
What type of OC spray do you use? Do you use the stuff that only has OC in it, or do you use the stuff that has CS and OC, like "Freeze +P"?

I am an OC instructor for my agency. We issue and carry the Punch III M3 made by Aerko Int. It is at least as effective as any other OC that I have had experience with. We also issue the "Deep Punch" crowd control fogger cannisters. Comes out like a jet exhaust!

I have been carrying "5.5% Pepper Mace" from Gall's but I wasn't too impressed with it the last time I sprayed someone. It made him close his eyes for about 30 min, but it didn't have any effect on his mucous membranes (i.e. no snot rockets and trouble breathing http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ).

This can usually be attributed to the delivery system, not necessarily the "strength" of the OC itself. A fog or mist delivery system is much more likely to involve the suspect's upper respiratory tract (snot rockets http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) than a stream or foam type delivery system. There are pro's and con's to all of the delivery systems. Some are more accurate and less susceptible to cross contamination. Some take effect more rapidly but are more susceptible to wind.

I just bought some "Punch III" after reading reviews of it and talking to officers at my department that do/have carried it. I guess I will see what happens the next time I'm in a situation that warrants the use of OC.

Again, this is the spray issued by my agency. It's stream format is less likely to cause the respiratory effects you are looking for, but a solid hit to the eyes will most likely have the desired effect on the suspect.

Just like Traffic Dog said, there is ALWAYS the possibility of little or no effect on certain subjects. There have been documented cases of suspects taking multiple hits with .45 ACP and not going down, so we're only kidding ourselves if we believe that OC is a magic death ray.

Like I tell my students in OC classes, it is merely another tool, another option, as with most things in life, there are no guarantees.

For what its worth, I have been hearing lots of good things about the products made by Fox Labs but I don't have any personal experience with it.

Good luck,
G.A.



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