PR-24

[Wannabe2000]

Which baton style is "better"? The PR-24, ASP, or the old straight baton.

[cajuncop]

It's hard to say which style is better. My department only allows us to carry what we are certified in.

I am certified in straight sticks, including all expandable batons. My department issues Monadnock, so thats what I carry on my duty belt.

The PR-24 is nice, but I'm not allowed to carry it.

Now for me, what I like to use, is what is known as a "Speed Stick". It is a polycarbonate straight stick. There's nothing like seing the end of it wrapping around someone's arm of leg, or anywhere on them for that matter.

One reason I like the "Speed Stick" is that its virtualy impossible to mess it up. With the Monadnock, my first time using it, it bent in the middle. I then had to get another one issued, but haven't used it since.

[Niteshift]

I've carried PR-24's (2 piece, one piece and expandable), straight sticks and ASP's. When given the choice, I go with the ASP.

The PR can do some real funky stuff, but I never seem to remember it in real-time. Not a whole lot I can do with a PR that I can't manage with an ASP.

------------------
Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[unhappycop]

I recall posting on this B4.

My dept (NSWP) uses the straight 26" long baton as a standard vehicle issued item, and are in the (slow) process of issuing all police statewide with 24" expandable batons.

I was originally trained in the modified lam method (cross hand) but with the transition to exp batons the NSWP are now adopting the UK open handed method.

We do not use PR24's.

My cousin is in the New Zealand Police and they use PR24's and a small wooden baton about 12" long.

The issue with why NSWP don't use PR24's was explained to me by an OS insetuctor at the academy as being one of logistics and training, as it takes more time and $$$ to train officers to CORRECTLY and SAFELY use a PR24 than a straight baton.

Also the reason for the change in method (apart from baton length) is that (according to a number of studies) when in a confrontatoin most people just revert to swinging the baton like a baby seal club and all technique goes out the window, ie; just thwack whatever presents itself.

Given this, it is most appropriate to train police in a method that most closely resembles and BUILDS UPON the instictive response of an untrained person. This also has the added benefit of "sanctioning" the most instinctive way of using a baton (ie; club 'em till they drop! http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif)

As for use of the baton, I've used the 26" aluminium baton a number of times and found it very effective. I've carried an expandable for nearly 2 years and have never had to use it (just lucky in that respect).

I would consider there to be advantages to both, in that the expandable is able to be carried at all times and you are not going to leave it in the car when in a foot pursuit. Then when you have shot someone who pulled a knife, bottle etc, when the coroner asks you "did you have your baton", you can say "YES, and I chose the most appropriate level of force", rather than being left with the unanswered question of "Could this situation have been resolved with a baton". Also helps with OH&S and insurance issues.

On the other side, I have always believed that in certain situations, a cop carrying a long baton is a wonderful VISIBLE deterent to the average knucklehead on the street. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif Obviously in other situations it can inflame a situation, and this is where I guess you could carry an ASP and a baton ring, and take the big bugger if you want to, but still never get caught short.

------------------
The harder I work, the luckier I get...

[This message has been edited by unhappycop (edited 02-09-2001).]

[John from Maryland]

The PR24 is a great baton. It is certainly more cumbersome than an expandable straight baton, but it is much more versatile. It does require discipline to either consistently ring the baton upon dismounting the cruiser or to deal with the expandable PR24 on the belt. Discipline is, however, part of being a cop.

Like all batons, the PR24 does require practice. Much of your skill with the PR24 can be maintained by consistently having the baton with you. If you routinely grab and ring the baton on exiting the cruiser, you'll become natural with the baton's heft and feel. Part of the discipline is to always bring the baton,even on nonsense calls--occurred earlier burglaries, notifications, vandalism reports.

While the PR24 can be used for some pretty fancy techniques, as with most weapons, the simplest techniques work best. The armlocks are great (and I used them a couple of times), but the PR24's strength lies in jabs, thrusts, and chops. Monadnock preaches power swings, but the close=in work is where the PR24 is at its best.

The advantage of an expandable straight baton is that it is always with you. Even the most disciplined baton fighters will occasionally opt to not carry the stick in close quarters or find the need to bail out of a cruiser outweighed their need for the baton (a decision often regretted shortly thereafter).

The constant presence of the expandable baton on an officer's belt offers a force option between hands-on or OC and deadly force. I'm not sure how many police administrators consider the expandable an especially effective weapon, but it offers court defensibility if an officer is forced to shoot an unarmed offender. It's tough to explain that an officer couldn't be bothered to carry a baton and thus had to shoot someone. It's much easier to explain that the suspect's assault was so overwhelming that deadly force was the only option.

Whatever baton they foist upon you, you owe it to yourself to develop proficiency with it. Be certain to check your agency's policy on flashlights as impact weapons. We authorize and train our officers in their use (which is good, as few people have any faith in the expandable PPCT baton that is issued).

If you have a choice in the matter, don't use the baton. Step back and deliver two half second bursts of oleoresin capsicum. Be safe.

[DMS 525]

I maintain proficiency with both the PR-24 and the straight baton. The ASP is a new thing with me. It is nice for being able to have it with you at all times without being in the way, or for having an impact tool if you have to bail out of the cruiser in a hurry.
I would wear an ASP(21"; the 26" is just too clunky for what I like). On those calls, where physical confrontations are likely, I would ring the PR-24 on exiting the cruiser. For one thing, it shows you mean business, and for another, a PR-24 is great for blocking swings from pool cues and beer bottles! Not to mention armlocks for taking belligerant buggers out the door!

It doesn't matter what piece of equipment it is; you need to maintain proficiency in it's use, so when the time comes you have to utilize it, it will be second nature.

Be safe out there.