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C.O.Man
05-10-2009, 09:21 PM
Lasik will be available Jan. 1, 2010. There is a network of participating opthalmologists. The list is being drawn up. It will cover the preliminary exam, the surgery & 2 follow-up visits. Copayment will 10% or $200. max. You are eligible every 5 years. This can be waived if there is injury or illness.

Family members get 25% discount, but members are covered 100%, copayment applies.

wow that is good news, i have been waiting to do lasik, thanks for the info

CO1989
05-10-2009, 10:26 PM
Looks like we got pretty damned close to what the other unions got, we just had to wait a couple years to get it. There wasn't enough soft money (like reinstating the uniform allowance and security diff) for me to say arbitration was well worth it - but then again the State originally offered us SH*T so at least he gave us more than that.

josemv78
05-10-2009, 10:29 PM
I like how you left the p out.

It's time for NYSCOPBA to drop the p. Just like the memo we received with our pay this week. We are not Police Officers so don't act like one.

Hey 25:

Although we are not Police Officers and in the NYSCOPBA union, it would be insulting for the other LEO's that is in the union to drop the "P" as it will only acknowledge CO rather than others like us. Not to pick any arguments here, but it would be insulting to us and my collegues as we are Peace Officers and do some duties like PD. Such as enforcements on PL & MVT. We perform arrest on civilians at state grounds and on our patients.

I guess they decided to leave the P on to make us feel better since we have no Binding Arbitration and the bill has been vetoed every other year.

That's all..... Good Luck on the next round of negotiations.. I know we are going to get $hitt@d on as the state will give what ever they want to us...

25YearsToGo
05-11-2009, 08:21 AM
Although we are not Police Officers and in the NYSCOPBA union, it would be insulting for the other LEO's that is in the union to drop the "P" as it will only acknowledge CO rather than others like us. Not to pick any arguments here, but it would be insulting to us and my collegues as we are Peace Officers and do some duties like PD. Such as enforcements on PL & MVT. We perform arrest on civilians at state grounds and on our patients.
Maybe real Police Officers think it's insulting to them?

Change the "P" to "PO"

New York State Correction Officer Peace Officer Association.

NYSCOPOA

25YearsToGo
05-11-2009, 08:25 AM
Looks like we got pretty damned close to what the other unions got, we just had to wait a couple years to get it. There wasn't enough soft money (like reinstating the uniform allowance and security diff) for me to say arbitration was well worth it - but then again the State originally offered us SH*T so at least he gave us more than that.


Most people I've talked to are just happy that it's finally over. Thing is while we receive the 3%, 3% that we should have received 3 and 2 years ago, other unions are now enjoying their third 3% and will be getting their next 4% in April. While we wait another 3 years to hope to get what they received and then we can say what a wonderful job our million dollar lawyers did getting us the same thing. So who's really better off?

josemv78
05-11-2009, 11:20 AM
Maybe real Police Officers think it's insulting to them?

Change the "P" to "PO"

New York State Correction Officer Peace Officer Association.

NYSCOPOA

Maybe. PO is good too. Like I said no arguing here.. "NYS Correction & Peace Officer's Association"-NYSCPOA Sounds good to me.... hehehheehehehe! I should make a complaint to the union then and see what they say.. they'll probably laugh their @$$es of at me.

MSICF
05-11-2009, 06:02 PM
Most people I've talked to are just happy that it's finally over. Thing is while we receive the 3%, 3% that we should have received 3 and 2 years ago, other unions are now enjoying their third 3% and will be getting their next 4% in April. While we wait another 3 years to hope to get what they received and then we can say what a wonderful job our million dollar lawyers did getting us the same thing. So who's really better off?

3 + 3 = 6
With the enhancements your raises will equal 9.3%
I dunno, who's better off?

cnyjeepr
05-11-2009, 07:48 PM
Is the 1500 EDP only for 2007 and 2008, or does it continue until changed.

MSICF
05-11-2009, 07:55 PM
Is the 1500 EDP only for 2007 and 2008, or does it continue until changed.

It does not sunset.

25YearsToGo
05-13-2009, 10:15 PM
3 + 3 = 6
With the enhancements your raises will equal 9.3%
I dunno, who's better off?


Actually it's 8.8% without deducting the % of Pre-Shift briefing that we lost.

3+3+3= 9%, plus another 4% next April = 13%


NYSCOPBA

3 + 3 = 6
Plus another 3 year wait to hope to get what the other unions received.

Not to mention Pre-Shift briefing going down $650.
I like how the union fails to mention that with the 41.25 hour work week now, we will not be receiving time and half for pre-shift briefing.

Last year I made $2600 in Pre-shift Briefing. The new formula will lower that to around $1950. $650 less than, I wonder what % that is?

Smoke and Mirrors.

Let's see some spin.

MSICF
05-14-2009, 06:03 AM
Actually it's 8.8% without deducting the % of Pre-Shift briefing that we lost.

3+3+3= 9%, plus another 4% next April = 13%


NYSCOPBA

3 + 3 = 6
Plus another 3 year wait to hope to get what the other unions received.

Not to mention Pre-Shift briefing going down $650.
I like how the union fails to mention that with the 41.25 hour work week now, we will not be receiving time and half for pre-shift briefing.

Last year I made $2600 in Pre-shift Briefing. The new formula will lower that to around $1950. $650 less than, I wonder what % that is?

Smoke and Mirrors.

Let's see some spin.

13% over 4 years.
9.3% over 2 years.
Duh.
There is no new formula for preshift briefing.
Proposed formula would have no adjustments and guaranteed 1.25 OT a week.

FKD1013
05-14-2009, 02:34 PM
wow that is good news, i have been waiting to do lasik, thanks for the info

I paid out of pocket for Lasik in December 2007..if the Dr. I went to is on the list, think there's a chance they'll reimburse me?

MSICF
05-14-2009, 07:29 PM
I paid out of pocket for Lasik in December 2007..if the Dr. I went to is on the list, think there's a chance they'll reimburse me?

No.

MSICF
06-20-2009, 10:49 AM
Most people I've talked to are just happy that it's finally over. Thing is while we receive the 3%, 3% that we should have received 3 and 2 years ago, other unions are now enjoying their third 3% and will be getting their next 4% in April. While we wait another 3 years to hope to get what they received and then we can say what a wonderful job our million dollar lawyers did getting us the same thing. So who's really better off?

The State NEVER offered us the same contract as CSEA and PEF. The State's offer was 2% and 2%.

Again NYSCOPBA was NEVER OFFERED 3% and 3%.

jalen4eva
06-20-2009, 07:45 PM
does anyone know when nycdoc expects to start hiring? I heard there was a class this summer, i think july is that true?

redstoy
06-21-2009, 01:11 AM
this is ny"s" docs you ma find better answers in ny"c" docs

The Gladiators
06-24-2009, 10:22 AM
Anyone Know when a list of particapating Dr's. who do the lasic procedure will be out?
If its going to be a small list, I would think the They're going to be backed up come January

MSICF
06-24-2009, 04:22 PM
Anyone Know when a list of particapating Dr's. who do the lasic procedure will be out?
If its going to be a small list, I would think the They're going to be backed up come January

The list is presently being drawn up. That's one of the reasons for the 1/1/10 date. Once it is drawn up NYSCOPBA (Sharon Smith) will inform membership.

NYSJAILER2008
06-24-2009, 04:44 PM
Hey MSICF

WHAT DOES THE NEW MEMO ON THE NYSCOBPA WEBSITE ABOUT (RIF) AND (DNRL) AND (ARTL) MEAN TO OFFICERS?? ARE LAYOFFS FOR OFFICERS BACK ON FOR JULY 1ST??

MSICF
06-24-2009, 05:25 PM
Hey MSICF

WHAT DOES THE NEW MEMO ON THE NYSCOBPA WEBSITE ABOUT (RIF) AND (DNRL) AND (ARTL) MEAN TO OFFICERS?? ARE LAYOFFS FOR OFFICERS BACK ON FOR JULY 1ST??

Those Officers that chose not to transfer from the 3 closure-affected facilities and those Officers that don't choose to transfer from the upcoming annex closures are the ones addressed in that memo. If an Officer didn't use the "Wish List" to leave a closed facility then he is subject to the Civil Service transfer. That means the State isn't obligated to send that Officer to a facility of his choice...the State can move him anywhere. If he refuses then he's laid off.

DOCS OCT
06-24-2009, 06:53 PM
Those Officers that chose not to transfer from the 3 closure-affected facilities and those Officers that don't choose to transfer from the upcoming annex closures are the ones addressed in that memo. If an Officer didn't use the "Wish List" to leave a closed facility then he is subject to the Civil Service transfer. That means the State isn't obligated to send that Officer to a facility of his choice...the State can move him anywhere. If he refuses then he's laid off.

Regardless of seniority?

MSICF
06-24-2009, 06:55 PM
Regardless of seniority?

Yes. Article 24 no longer in effect. Civil Service Law now applies.

MSICF
06-24-2009, 07:16 PM
Nothing accomplished today.
Just a lot more bitching.

Paterson did threaten to withold pay but can't do so unless a law is passed allowing him to.

NYSCOsoon
06-25-2009, 01:00 AM
Kind of off topic but does anyone know if the expanded duty is a lump sum or split up between our 26 pay periods?

MSICF
06-25-2009, 05:37 AM
Kind of off topic but does anyone know if the expanded duty is a lump sum or split up between our 26 pay periods?

Split up into 26 pay periods.

DOCS OCT
06-25-2009, 10:41 AM
Split up into 26 pay periods.

And taxed like crazy too.:rolleyes:

Redsox Sgt
06-26-2009, 10:14 PM
June 25, 2009 - NYSCOPBA & GOER met today to discuss unresolved contract issues (monetary for Law Enforcement and non-monetary for both groups). There was some discussion on time frames to be covered - 2 year or the 4 year that was the States original proposal. This will be discussed further at our meeting scheduled for July 15, 2009.


Can anybody expand on the above statement? I cut and pasted it from the union website.

There should be NO talk of a 4 year contract unless the State isgiving back things we have lost over the years.

MSICF
06-26-2009, 10:38 PM
June 25, 2009 - NYSCOPBA & GOER met today to discuss unresolved contract issues (monetary for Law Enforcement and non-monetary for both groups). There was some discussion on time frames to be covered - 2 year or the 4 year that was the States original proposal. This will be discussed further at our meeting scheduled for July 15, 2009.


Can anybody expand on the above statement? I cut and pasted it from the union website.

There should be NO talk of a 4 year contract unless the State isgiving back things we have lost over the years.

This doesn't affect CO's. The non-arbitration units (Law Enforcement) are without a contract. Once we got our award NYSCOPBA requested that the non-arbitration eligible units enter back into negotiation. The Law Enforcement units willingly sat back while we were in arbitration. If they hadn't the State wouldn't have allowed arbitration. They are now negotiating for the same period of time we just did. The State requested that those units consider a 4 year contract so they can catch up. Remember those units can't go to arbitration.
Also NYSCOPBA, at the same time, is negotiating the non-monetary articles that haven't been settled yet. This does not affect the payout.

Redsox Sgt
06-26-2009, 11:34 PM
We also have to sit down and finish negotiating the NON-Arbitation articles. That is how the State got us to agree to a 4 year contract last time. and we gave up
1) 4 hr sick days no notes
2) Call back in 8 hours before shift.

I'll never say we got a good contract until the State makes up for all the 0's, 0's, o's we recieved in the 90's. When they either give us a 30% raise or move our grade up 3 steps, then I'll be happy. Until then, I say No to all contracts.

By the way, Redsox won. Redsox won.

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 12:11 AM
We are never going to make up for the Zero's that you guys voted for.

If you feel you don't make enough money, people could always quit and find another job. How much do you feel you should be paid?

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 01:22 AM
A Trooper Zone Sgt. makes $105,000 per year. And that's with 10 years on the job.
With my 27 years as a CO, I should be making at least $70,000 per year.

The Gladiators
06-27-2009, 04:50 AM
We are never going to make up for the Zero's that you guys voted for.

If you feel you don't make enough money, people could always quit and find another job. How much do you feel you should be paid?

You sound like one of the guys who get 'we' and 'you'. mixed up

'We' also started at less than 18- 20k, 20 some years ago, now 'you' are starting at a much higher rate.

So let us that went through them years, along with the rest of the BS worry and complain about the zeros.

You get to btch about the contracts you went through...if you have been through any yet

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 08:38 AM
A Trooper Zone Sgt. makes $105,000 per year. And that's with 10 years on the job.
Take the test to be a Trooper.

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 08:47 AM
You sound like one of the guys who get 'we' and 'you'. mixed up I thought we were all brothers and sisters?


'We' also started at less than 18- 20k, 20 some years ago, now 'you' are starting at a much higher rate.That's right,"20 some years ago", are you really trying to compare 20 years ago to now? I started at $24, should I complain guys are starting higher now? Good for them.

Facts are is that we make very good money. Most of the people I've seen quit over the years come back within a year begging for their jobs back. I wonder why that is.


'So let us that went through them years, along with the rest of the BS worry and complain about the zeros.We also took the ZERO's that you guys voted for. So we had no control over your yes votes but yet we have to live through what you guys voted yes for. It's certainly not my fault that the majority of people voted themselves a 0 raise. Im sure it's not your fault either. So far I haven't met anyone who voted "yes" for the zero's. And people wonder why we get treated so poorly. Thanks for the Zero's.:rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 08:52 AM
With my 27 years as a CO, I should be making at least $70,000 per year.

Salary: $65183
Shift Dif: $1800
Pre-Shift: Approx $2500
Location Pay $3210
Expanded Duty pay: $1500


Total Approx: $74193, you can make more than $70,000.

The Gladiators
06-27-2009, 10:54 AM
[QUOTE=25YearsToGo;1872681]I thought we were all brothers and sisters?

That's right,"20 some years ago", are you really trying to compare 20 years ago to now? I started at $24, should I complain guys are starting higher now? Good for them.

Facts are is that we make very good money. Most of the people I've seen quit over the years come back within a year begging for their jobs back. I wonder why that is.

We also took the ZERO's that you guys voted for. So we had no control over your yes votes but yet we have to live through what you guys voted yes for. It's certainly not my fault that the majority of people voted themselves a 0 raise. Im sure it's not your fault either. So far I haven't met anyone who voted "yes" for the zero's.




25..I have looked @ some of your past posts.....I have worked with guys like you.
My conversation usually stops when those guys approach. Does that happen to you?

UnJustBaton
06-27-2009, 11:28 AM
There's nothing wrong with a little bickering. What brothers or sisters dont?

UnJustBaton
06-27-2009, 11:33 AM
20k 20 years ago was ok 40k now is ok. More is always better. Think about how upset the officers with 20 years on the job were when you started 20 years ago. Whens it gonna stop? When the cost of living goes up so does starting pay. Thats how it works.

UnJustBaton
06-27-2009, 11:46 AM
NY State Trooper Starting Salary (April 2006)

Effective April 1, 2006

•$50,374 - Starting salary (during Academy training)

•$61,525 - Upon graduation from the Academy

•$65,358 - After one year

•$77,218 - After five years

We are less than 20,000 below I think that’s more than fair. We're not troopers, were not required to have a college degree. We don’t even have to have a high school diploma, just a GED. Yes we are in a very dangerous work environment, and at any moment things can go really wrong but still.

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 01:19 PM
Take the test to be a Trooper.

I'm too old to take that test.

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 01:25 PM
Salary: $65183
Shift Dif: $1800
Pre-Shift: Approx $2500
Location Pay $3210
Expanded Duty pay: $1500


Total Approx: $74193, you can make more than $70,000.

You remind me of some of the people (both men and women) who had a hot year on the job during the Challenge. Saying how they got screwed by Council 82. I laughed in their faces because they haven't even voted on a contract yet and they convinced themselves that they were screwed. I stopped talking to them not long after that.
And I haven't spoken to them since. Because it's a waste of my time.
I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, hoping that you might learn something from us guys with time on the job.
The only thing that you've learned is how to snivel about something that you have no control over.

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 01:26 PM
NY State Trooper Starting Salary (April 2006)

Effective April 1, 2006

•$50,374 - Starting salary (during Academy training)

•$61,525 - Upon graduation from the Academy

•$65,358 - After one year

•$77,218 - After five years

We are less than 20,000 below I think that’s more than fair. We're not troopers, were not required to have a college degree. We don’t even have to have a high school diploma, just a GED. Yes we are in a very dangerous work environment, and at any moment things can go really wrong but still.
And you forgot the one distinct advantage that we have over the Troopers.

We already know who the bad guys are.
They have to find that out for themselves.

redstoy
06-27-2009, 02:16 PM
as a guy with not much time on, im happy to have a job with advancement opportunity. i'm happy to get each step and any new contract that comes up. i'm happy to get retro money when it comes. i'm happy to have health benefits.

all this is a lot more than what i had in 05 and 06. i just spoke to one of the guys i worked with at my old job. they were given a 16% pay cut, take it or quit and i worked for an a hole that diddnt care about anyone but himself.

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 02:20 PM
You remind me of some of the people (both men and women) who had a hot year on the job during the Challenge. Saying how they got screwed by Council 82. I laughed in their faces because they haven't even voted on a contract yet and they convinced themselves that they were screwed. I stopped talking to them not long after that.
And I haven't spoken to them since. Because it's a waste of my time.
I used to give you the benefit of the doubt, hoping that you might learn something from us guys with time on the job.
The only thing that you've learned is how to snivel about something that you have no control over.


I never got screwed by Council 82, the only people who have screwed me so far is my fellow officers. I didn't complain about the pay when I started and I am certainly not complaining about what we make now.

Some people have forgotten what it's like to work in the real world, if they ever did.

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 02:22 PM
20k 20 years ago was ok 40k now is ok. More is always better. Think about how upset the officers with 20 years on the job were when you started 20 years ago. Whens it gonna stop? When the cost of living goes up so does starting pay. Thats how it works.

Excellent post.

Agreed. It's common sense that people 30 years ago were making less than people 25 years ago, people 20 years ago making less than people 25 years ago, etc...

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 02:27 PM
as a guy with not much time on, im happy to have a job with advancement opportunity. i'm happy to get each step and any new contract that comes up. i'm happy to get retro money when it comes. i'm happy to have health benefits.

all this is a lot more than what i had in 05 and 06. i just spoke to one of the guys i worked with at my old job. they were given a 16% pay cut, take it or quit and i worked for an a hole that diddnt care about anyone but himself.

Another excellent post.

Some people really need a wake up call. We make excellent money. All this contract was was icing on the cake.

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 02:35 PM
25..I have looked @ some of your past posts.....I have worked with guys like you.
My conversation usually stops when those guys approach. Does that happen to you?

Nope.

Redsox Sgt
06-27-2009, 04:40 PM
I was around with council 82. and yes everybody I talk to voted Including myself NO for the contract with 0's. It seems nobody voted for them, but somehow they still passed. That is why NYSCOPBA won dureing the challenge. Council 82 passed anything they wanted no matter how the votes added up. I have every right to Bitch because I was there. If you think you make excellent money great for you. I don't.

When I started state troopers made $3,000 more then Prison Guards. They got theirs, I want mine. pretty simple.

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 04:44 PM
If you think you make excellent money great for you. I don't. The fact that you still work for the department makes me think that you don't really believe what you posted.


When I started state troopers made $3,000 more then Prison Guards. They got theirs, I want mine. pretty simple. We are not State Troopers, real simple.

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 08:24 PM
I never got screwed by Council 82, the only people who have screwed me so far is my fellow officers. I didn't complain about the pay when I started and I am certainly not complaining about what we make now.

Some people have forgotten what it's like to work in the real world, if they ever did.
I had a factory job before I got this job. So, yes, I remember well what it was like to have to work for a living. When I started with Corrections, the starting pay was $11,920. I took a $6,000 pay cut hoping that I would be able to make up for it via benefits, OT, etc... which I have and then some. So, don't lecture me on what it's like to have to work in the real world.
Chances are, I was doing that before you were even born.

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 08:25 PM
as a guy with not much time on, im happy to have a job with advancement opportunity. i'm happy to get each step and any new contract that comes up. i'm happy to get retro money when it comes. i'm happy to have health benefits.

all this is a lot more than what i had in 05 and 06. i just spoke to one of the guys i worked with at my old job. they were given a 16% pay cut, take it or quit and i worked for an a hole that diddnt care about anyone but himself.
At least you appreciate what you have, unlike so many others.

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 08:32 PM
Chances are, I was doing that before you were even born.Looks like we know what it's like in the real world.

We make excellent money. Who ever says different is a fool.

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 08:45 PM
Salary: $65183
Shift Dif: $1800
Pre-Shift: Approx $2500
Location Pay $3210
Expanded Duty pay: $1500


Total Approx: $74193, you can make more than $70,000.

You can subtract the Location Pay from my check because I live Upstate.
And I work the Day Shift, so subtract that too.
And we haven't gotten the raises yet, so subtract that as well.
Oh, and we don't have the Expanded Duty Pay yet either. Subtract that too.
Now you get where we are at this moment.

The Gladiators
06-27-2009, 09:05 PM
I was around with council 82. and yes everybody I talk to voted Including myself NO for the contract with 0's. It seems nobody voted for them, but somehow they still passed. That is why NYSCOPBA won dureing the challenge. Council 82 passed anything they wanted no matter how the votes added up. I have every right to Bitch because I was there. If you think you make excellent money great for you. I don't.

When I started state troopers made $3,000 more then Prison Guards. They got theirs, I want mine. pretty simple.

Exactly, we were always a little behind the Troopers, which was acceptable for me, but over the last twenty some years due to their binding awards and soft money they skyrocketed and we became stagnent. we had to stay in line w/ pef and csea whe 82 was our bargaining unit.

We went independant 10 years ago for a reason

We're doing a little better, but this attitude I hear around of ....'thanks for letting us take care of the worst of the worst dregs of society...just pay us what you think is fair needs to stop

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 09:42 PM
We are not Troopers.

The Gladiators
06-27-2009, 09:46 PM
We are not Troopers.

We are not CSEA

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 10:04 PM
We are not CSEA
Or PEF

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 10:20 PM
We are not CSEA

Agreed, they already received 3 years of their raises and this April will receive another 4%, what did we get so far?

MSICF
06-27-2009, 10:29 PM
I didn't complain about the pay when I started and I am certainly not complaining about what we make now.

Something is wrong about this part.

MSICF
06-27-2009, 10:31 PM
I had a factory job before I got this job. So, yes, I remember well what it was like to have to work for a living. When I started with Corrections, the starting pay was $11,920. I took a $6,000 pay cut hoping that I would be able to make up for it via benefits, OT, etc... which I have and then some. So, don't lecture me on what it's like to have to work in the real world.
Chances are, I was doing that before you were even born.

Excellent post.

MSICF
06-27-2009, 10:34 PM
Agreed, they already received 3 years of their raises and this April will receive another 4%, what did we get so far?

So you wanted the 2% the State offered. WE WERE NEVER OFFERED THE CSEA AND PEF CONTRACT.
Interesting.

DOCS OCT
06-27-2009, 10:52 PM
So you wanted the 2% the State offered. WE WERE NEVER OFFERED THE CSEA AND PEF CONTRACT.
Interesting.
Some guys just don't get it.:rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
06-27-2009, 11:14 PM
Something is wrong about this part.What's that?

You won't find any of my posts complaining about the money we receive or about the money we received in the contract. I am very happy with both. Realistic CO's like myself realize how well we are compensated. It's the malcontents that are not.

DOCS OCT
06-28-2009, 12:58 AM
What's that?

You won't find any of my posts complaining about the money we receive or about the money we received in the contract. I am very happy with both. Realistic CO's like myself realize how well we are compensated. It's the malcontents that are not.

You're a future Dep.:rolleyes:

MSICF
06-28-2009, 07:14 AM
You're a future Dep.:rolleyes:

I told ya...Bldg. 2.

DOCS OCT
06-28-2009, 08:58 AM
I told ya...Bldg. 2.
Nah.
A Minimum or Camp at best.
If there's any left when Patterson & Fisher get done with them.:rolleyes:

redstoy
06-28-2009, 10:50 AM
while i understand the way we compare ourselves to troopers for pay and bennies we will never catch up with them on pay, they do a different job than we do.

NYSCOPBA is the best shot we have at staying anywhere near them though, the previous union diddnt have any interest in getting us binding arb which is why the state has given us anything in this economy, otherwise we would be getting more 0's. so it takes time to happen, i am not going anywhere in this economy.if it means i get a retro check every few years till the state will negotiate in good faith i'm ok with that.
there are definitely things that could be done better and things that i consider a waste of money being done but overall i think NYSCOPBA has been doing a good job

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 12:21 PM
while i understand the way we compare ourselves to troopers for pay and bennies we will never catch up with them on pay, they do a different job than we do.
MSICF thinks being compared to Troopers is more accurate than being compared to other correction officers. :rolleyes:

MSICF
06-28-2009, 12:48 PM
MSICF thinks being compared to Troopers is more accurate than being compared to other correction officers. :rolleyes:

As does the arbitrators. Your comparison was to COUNTY COs. During the arbitration the State wanted to compare us also to COUNTY COs. Thankfully the arbitrators thought otherwise. The argument of the comparison was won in arbitration. Live with it.

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 01:39 PM
As does the arbitrators. Your comparison was to COUNTY COs. During the arbitration the State wanted to compare us also to COUNTY COs. Thankfully the arbitrators thought otherwise. The argument of the comparison was won in arbitration. Live with it.

And that got us the same 3% and 3% CSEA and PEF received, well done.

County CO's in my area received 4% and 4% for raises. What % are we still waiting for?

Like I've said numerous times though, I'm happy with the raise. I just bitch because some people are making it sound like we got this great contract when in fact it's basically the same as everyone else's. We just had to wait 2 extra years to get it.

MSICF
06-28-2009, 01:56 PM
And that got us the same 3% and 3% CSEA and PEF received, well done.

County CO's in my area received 4% and 4% for raises. What % are we still waiting for?

Like I've said numerous times though, I'm happy with the raise. I just bitch because some people are making it sound like we got this great contract when in fact it's basically the same as everyone else's. We just had to wait 2 extra years to get it.

You could have had 2% and 2%. You intentionally miss that point. Without arbitration you would have had less and waited even longer.

Trooper4985
06-28-2009, 03:05 PM
A Trooper Zone Sgt. makes $105,000 per year. And that's with 10 years on the job.
With my 27 years as a CO, I should be making at least $70,000 per year.

A 10 year Zonie is not very common... A slightly more real situation is a 7 year Trooper... my base is now $90k and in April it jumps to $97k ;)

Do I think you guys deserve more... sure.... You'd never catch me wearing that uniform. Ok... I did for the majority of my academy but that didn't really count ;)

The Gladiators
06-28-2009, 04:49 PM
What's that?

You won't find any of my posts complaining about the money we receive or about the money we received in the contract. I am very happy with both. Realistic CO's like myself realize how well we are compensated. It's the malcontents that are not.

Please, Please never get on the negotiating team....If they had your attitude we would be making 20k

It's because of us "malcontents" fighting through contracts and union challenges long before you even digested your first accadamy meal, that you are in the blissfull position you're in.

And since you like giving others career advice, why don't you look into that county job and get yourself a couple of 4s

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 05:13 PM
And since you like giving others career advice, why don't you look into that county job and get yourself a couple of 4sLike I said, I know how lucky we have it.

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 05:19 PM
You could have had 2% and 2%. You intentionally miss that point. Without arbitration you would have had less and waited even longer.I don't miss that point because that is not what we would have accepted. Just like NYSCOBA didn't get the 7 and 7 percentages they were original seeking. It's called negotiations.

ne⋅go⋅ti⋅a⋅tion
  /nɪˌgoʊʃiˈeɪʃən, -si-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ni-goh-shee-ey-shuhn, -see-] Show IPA
Use negotiation in a Sentence
–noun
1. mutual discussion and arrangement of the terms of a transaction or agreement: the negotiation of a treaty

The Gladiators
06-28-2009, 05:27 PM
Like I said, I know how lucky we have it.

What about the guys coming up behind you? I'll be done in a few years, I want to fight for every penny we deserve so the guys with 5 yrs. will have a better career.

What are you going to tell the new guys 10 years from now?

'Sorry I was thankful for what they gave me, and I didn't want to make waves and get the bosses mad at me, you see, it was all about me'

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 05:46 PM
What about the guys coming up behind you? I'll be done in a few years, I want to fight for every penny we deserve so the guys with 5 yrs. will have a better career.


Welcome to Tier V.

It's not right but it's always been screw the new guy, doesn't matter if it's CSEA, PEF, NYSCOBA etc...

There are things officers before us screwed us on and there will be things that the officers below us will get screwed on.

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 05:47 PM
What are you going to tell the new guys 10 years from now?



Can I use the term "get some time on the job" which I hear so often when it comes to justifying something?

The Gladiators
06-28-2009, 05:54 PM
Just get enough time to get a locked in PC bid so no one has to count on you
for anything important

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 06:00 PM
'Sorry I was thankful for what they gave me, and I didn't want to make waves and get the bosses mad at me, you see, it was all about me'Wow, your facility is like that too?

MSICF
06-28-2009, 08:41 PM
I don't miss that point because that is not what we would have accepted. Just like NYSCOBA didn't get the 7 and 7 percentages they were original seeking. It's called negotiations.

ne⋅go⋅ti⋅a⋅tion
  /nɪˌgoʊʃiˈeɪʃən, -si-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ni-goh-shee-ey-shuhn, -see-] Show IPA
Use negotiation in a Sentence
–noun
1. mutual discussion and arrangement of the terms of a transaction or agreement: the negotiation of a treaty

The State was not going to offer us the same. Hence the impasse and arbitration. In fact when impasse was declared the State asked for a meeting to make another offer. Thought was it would be the pattern contract. However, the State canceled the meeting and no offer was made. The 2's remained the State's last offer. WE WERE NEVER OFFERED THE SAME. WE WERE NEVER GOING TO BE OFFERED THE SAME. Using your own definition of negotiation implies mutual discussion. Now you can look up impasse and arbitration.

25YearsToGo
06-28-2009, 09:02 PM
The state was offering 2 & 2, NYSCOBA was asking for 7 & 7, who got closer to what they wanted?

MSICF
06-28-2009, 09:07 PM
The state was offering 2 & 2, NYSCOBA was asking for 7 & 7, who got closer to what they wanted?

Why are you using our 1st offer and the State's final offer?
Wouldn't it make more sense to compare the offers in the proper sequence?
The State's 1st offer was zeroes. Our 1st offer was 7's. That should be the comparison.
It's like adding a 4 year contract and comparing it to a 2 year contract.

redstoy
06-29-2009, 12:19 PM
25yearstogo you are getting annoying already the states final offer was 2&2.

we want, they dont want to give .....capiche? closer isnt what its about. its about getting something even when the other side doesnt want to give. that is why we have arbitration. face it we are the red headed stepchildren of law enforcement. dont believe it? look at our uniforms. ive seen schoolbus drivers with better quality stuff. once theyre locked away and they are not seen and so are we.

Willard_DTC
06-29-2009, 12:43 PM
I, for one, am happy that we have arbitration because without it I'm quite sure the states offer would have been 0's and since they captain the ship they could afford to sit back and "negotiate" until the cows come home. Nobody will ever be completely happy with whatever award we happen to get but at least we will receive something. The biggest problem is that "something" very seldom....if ever.......equals or exceeds the cost of living increases we see every year in this state.

My biggest complaint isn't about the money we make....it's about how the state reaches back into our pockets with higher taxes, fees, co-pays and then we have to sit back and watch the fools in the Senate fight like actors in a badly dubbed kung-fu movie. This state is rapidly approaching the point where people won't be able to afford the taxes levied on them and be able to survive on whatever is left of their paychecks....a point which is proven whenever you pick up a newspaper and read a headline that bemoans the number of people and businesses leaving the state. Sooner or later the fools in Albany are going to have to pay attention to the mess this state has become..........:rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
06-29-2009, 04:24 PM
25yearstogo you are getting annoying already the states final offer was 2&2.

They never had a chance to offer 3% and 3% because the union was seeking 7% and 7% and then declared impasse. Do you not think if we continued to negotiate that we wouldn't have been offered the 3%/3% that everyone else, including us, received?

Both parties are to blame for dragging the contract on.

Like I've said numerous times also, I am happy with the contract. What ****es me off, as it should everyone else, is the time it takes to get a contract done.

How come we are not in negotiations for another contract, seeing as how the one we were awarded already expired? We already know what the pattern is and what we hope to receive, 3%/4%. Let's pay the lawyers millions to try and get what everyone else got and then say what a wonderful job they did. :rolleyes:

MSICF
06-29-2009, 04:30 PM
They never had a chance to offer 3% and 3% because the union was seeking 7% and 7% and then declared impasse. Do you not think if we continued to negotiate that we wouldn't have been offered the 3%/3% that everyone else, including us, received?

Both parties are to blame for dragging the contract on.

Like I've said numerous times also, I am happy with the contract. What ****es me off, as it should everyone else, is the time it takes to get a contract done.

How come we are not in negotiations for another contract, seeing as how the one we were awarded already expired? We already know what the pattern is and what we hope to receive, 3%/4%. Let's pay the lawyers millions to try and get what everyone else got and then say what a wonderful job they did. :rolleyes:

Negotiations were over. Look up "final" in your handy, dandy dictionary. As in FINAL OFFER. Negotiations were over.
You aren't paying attention. They are in negotiations for the non-monetary articles. That has to be settled first. Try and keep up.
You DID NOT get what everyone else got.

25YearsToGo
06-29-2009, 05:17 PM
Negotiations were over. Look up "final" in your handy, dandy dictionary. As in FINAL OFFER. Negotiations were over.

Because impasse was declared. Look up "impasse" in your handy, dandy dictionary. You can spin it any way you want. Maybe some of the sheep will believe it.


You aren't paying attention. They are in negotiations for the non-monetary articles. That has to be settled first. Try and keep up.Dragging it on is all it is. It's been what 3 months?


You DID NOT get what everyone else got.

you are right, they already got theirs while we wait with our hand on our ***.

MSICF
06-29-2009, 07:14 PM
Because impasse was declared. Look up "impasse" in your handy, dandy dictionary. You can spin it any way you want. Maybe some of the sheep will believe it.

Dragging it on is all it is. It's been what 3 months?



you are right, they already got theirs while we wait with our hand on our ***.

You leave no doubt as to what your agenda is.

DOCS OCT
06-29-2009, 07:47 PM
Definitely DSS Material. :lol:

MSICF
06-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Definitely DSS Material. :lol:

I was thinking Senate material.

DOCS OCT
06-29-2009, 08:36 PM
I was thinking Senate material.

All of his Correctional experience should help him exponentially.:rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
06-30-2009, 01:35 AM
Definitely DSS Material. :lol:Because I am tired of the excuses and the spin? Don't you want your money in a timely manner?

Do you feel that it was ok for the union to donate $25,000 of our dues money to Patterson?

Do you feel that it's ok that the union spends $35,000 of our dues money on a "nothing special" apartment?

Do you think the $2.9 million dollars of our dues money the union spent on lawyers was well spent?

How about the DVD and popcorn, was that well spent dues money?

How many CO's are sitting up at Hackett Blvd. doing nothing?

What did that rally accomplish and how much dues money was wasted on that?

MSICF can try and spin it any way he wants. Only the sheep follow.

DOCS OCT
06-30-2009, 04:43 AM
Because I am tired of the excuses and the spin? Don't you want your money in a timely manner?

Do you feel that it was ok for the union to donate $25,000 of our dues money to Patterson?

Do you feel that it's ok that the union spends $35,000 of our dues money on a "nothing special" apartment?

Do you think the $2.9 million dollars of our dues money the union spent on lawyers was well spent?

How about the DVD and popcorn, was that well spent dues money?

How many CO's are sitting up at Hackett Blvd. doing nothing?

What did that rally accomplish and how much dues money was wasted on that?

MSICF can try and spin it any way he wants. Only the sheep follow.

A lot less than what's sitting around in Bldg. #2. And for a lot less money too.

UnJustBaton
07-01-2009, 01:03 PM
25 years, you a very disgruntled and I don’t understand why. I have been satisfied with how the union has worked. Sometimes you have to play politics if you want to get something. Maybe if the union had a membership that worked better together they could do more. When we start to act and behave like troopers maybe our pay will start to be in line with theirs. We should be mad at the CO’s that go out and act like scum bags in public and give the rest of us a bad rap. We don’t get anything because John Q Public thinks we’re all just a bunch of scum bags that beats inmates like in the movies. Why can’t we sue the movies who slander us in their portrayal of Correction Officers?

25YearsToGo
07-01-2009, 01:53 PM
25 years, you a very disgruntled and I don’t understand why. I have been satisfied with how the union has worked. Speaking out against things that are wrong is not being "disgrunted". Do you feel the things I asked DOCS are justified?



When we start to act and behave like troopers maybe our pay will start to be in line with theirs. We should be mad at the CO’s that go out and act like scum bags in public and give the rest of us a bad rap. We don’t get anything because John Q Public thinks we’re all just a bunch of scum bags that beats inmates like in the movies. We'll never get paid like Troopers because 1) There's alot more of us than there is them, 2) They generate income for the state. Plus there really is no comparison between the 2 jobs. The Union just uses that comparison because the Troopers make more than us. Did you read where MSICF said we shouldn't be compared to other correction officers? lol

Also, every department has bad employee's. There has been quite a few Troopers in the news lately.

UnJustBaton
07-01-2009, 02:12 PM
I wouldn’t expect to get paid like Troopers but In line with I would. If we started out X amount below them then we should still be X amount below them 10, 20, or 30 years later. It would be absolutely fair to be compared to other CO's nationally. I fail to see how numbers make a difference, so what you’re saying is (if there were 5,000 of us and 20,000 of them we would be paid more than them)? Disgruntled, yes I don’t believe I've ever heard you say something positive. Like how many Officers jobs that have been saved. Corcraft does'nt generate revenue for the state???

MSICF
07-01-2009, 05:58 PM
Speaking out against things that are wrong is not being "disgrunted". Do you feel the things I asked DOCS are justified?


We'll never get paid like Troopers because 1) There's alot more of us than there is them, 2) They generate income for the state. Plus there really is no comparison between the 2 jobs. The Union just uses that comparison because the Troopers make more than us. Did you read where MSICF said we shouldn't be compared to other correction officers? lol

Also, every department has bad employee's. There has been quite a few Troopers in the news lately.

Why do you insist on fostering lies?

Trooper4985
07-01-2009, 06:47 PM
2) They generate income for the state.

I know somoene pays for all the crappy Corcraft furniture that we have at the barracks... somoene is making money somewhere.

CO1989
07-01-2009, 11:37 PM
Man, this is starting to read/sound like The Hack Net!!!

DOCS OCT
07-01-2009, 11:49 PM
I know somoene pays for all the crappy Corcraft furniture that we have at the barracks... somoene is making money somewhere.

For the record, Inmates make that junk, not C.O's.
But, if you must blame someone, blame the Industrial Supervisors.
They're the ones that teach the inmates how to put the stuff together.

DOCS OCT
07-01-2009, 11:50 PM
Man, this is starting to read/sound like The Hack Net!!!

Oh no.
This is far and above worse than the HackNet.:rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
07-02-2009, 08:07 AM
Why do you insist on fostering lies?
Yeah, fostering lies. :rolleyes:
The lies fostering are coming directly from the NYSCOBA website. :rolleyes:

$55,000 for a "nothing special" apartment.
$2.9 million for lawyers.
$25,000 donated to Patterson.
How much that DVD and Popcorn cost?

UnJustBaton
07-02-2009, 10:01 AM
Really 25yearstogo, your argument is getting old. It’s always the same talking points you’re worse than liberal talk radio. If the union didn’t want you to know about it you wouldn’t, you’re not a super investigator who uncovered some secret. Just because in your opinion you don’t like something doesn’t make it wrong. If you don’t like how things are done then perhaps you should run. If you’re so well liked by everyone and half as smart as you want people to think you are then you should be a shoe in. I for one am sick of hearing you talk down about the union. I hope you realize you could have gotten 2 ½ months of union dues back had you just went to the rally and voiced your opinion. The point about Corcraft is that DOCS does in fact generate revenue for the state. Without security the inmates don’t come out to work, it really is that simple.

25YearsToGo
07-02-2009, 01:30 PM
The point about Corcraft is that DOCS does in fact generate revenue for the state.I noticed how both you and DOCS avoided the questions. Why is that? Because you agree with me? ;)

LMAO, so you think the state making stuff and selling the over priced stuff to the state is generating income?

How about you go in your shed and make a nice bird house. Then put it up for sale and buy it from yourself. How much money did you make?

Everyone knows Corcraft crap is overpriced so that the state can say they saved X amount of money by producing and buying the crap from themselves.

UnJustBaton
07-02-2009, 01:41 PM
Different branches of state goverment have different budgets. So if one branch buys something from another branch it makes money!

DOCS OCT
07-02-2009, 03:13 PM
Different branches of state goverment have different budgets. So if one branch buys something from another branch it makes money!

And it not only sells products to other state agencies, but it also sells to various municipalities. At my town clerk's office, it's all Corcraft stuff. So, yes, Corcraft makes money for the state.

DOCS OCT
07-02-2009, 03:18 PM
I noticed how both you and DOCS avoided the questions. Why is that? Because you agree with me? ;)

LMAO, so you think the state making stuff and selling the over priced stuff to the state is generating income?

How about you go in your shed and make a nice bird house. Then put it up for sale and buy it from yourself. How much money did you make?

Everyone knows Corcraft crap is overpriced so that the state can say they saved X amount of money by producing and buying the crap from themselves.
Out of curiosity, how much time have you got on the job? I noticed that in your profile, you left that out. I'm guessing that you've got maybe two years? Maybe slightly more? From someone who was probably doing this job since before you were born, try listening? Back up your statements with cold hard facts. Provide links to your proof (if possible).
One of the worst things that you can do is to shoot from the lip. Because it shows ignorance. I was once like you. I knew everything and then some. Nobody could tell me nothin'. But, the older I got, the wiser I became. I listened to the guys (and gals) with time on the job. And I gained from the knowledge that I was provided by them. And no, I still don't know everything.
And until the day that I die, I still won't.

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 07:56 AM
Out of curiosity, how much time have you got on the job? I noticed that in your profile, you left that out. I'm guessing that you've got maybe two years? Maybe slightly more? From someone who was probably doing this job since before you were born, try listening? Time on the job really has nothing to do with anything, all it really means is you are older than me. But fyi, 12 years.


Back up your statements with cold hard facts. Provide links to your proof (if possible).
One of the worst things that you can do is to shoot from the lip.I already explained where the facts came from, NYSCOPBA.org. So far neither you or Baton have answered the questions. Why is that?

The Gladiators
07-03-2009, 09:49 AM
Time on the job really has nothing to do with anything, all it really means is you are older than me. But fyi, 12 years.

I already explained where the facts came from, NYSCOPBA.org. So far neither you or Baton have answered the questions. Why is that?

Time on the job means a lot, It's called seniority, something we have fought hard for...The State tries to go after our seniority every contract, and counts on attitudes like yours to help them take it from us.

Thats something you should have learned after 12 yrs.

Do you have a bid?
Do you work the shift you requested?
Thank seniority.

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Time on the job means a lot, It's called seniority, something we have fought hard for...The State tries to go after our seniority every contract, and counts on attitudes like yours to help them take it from us.

Thats something you should have learned after 12 yrs.

Do you have a bid?
Do you work the shift you requested?
Thank seniority.
It still sounds like he's a two-year wonder.
And I have another question. Has he run for Union Office yet?
If not,why not?
FWIW; I was a Steward during the Council 82 Days at my facility.

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 10:47 AM
Time on the job really has nothing to do with anything, all it really means is you are older than me. But fyi, 12 years.
Then why hide this? If you have 12 years, then say so.


I already explained where the facts came from, NYSCOPBA.org. So far neither you or Baton have answered the questions. Why is that?
Why? You seem to have all of the answers already.:rolleyes:

toughco60
07-03-2009, 10:54 AM
It still sounds like he's a two-year wonder.
And I have another question. Has he run for Union Office yet?
If not,why not?
FWIW; I was a Steward during the Council 82 Days at my facility.

Hey I wouldn't be putting it out there about C-82 there chief. They made alot of mistakes themselves

The Gladiators
07-03-2009, 11:35 AM
I was a steward for 82 also, no it wasn't perfect but its what we had. There is absolutely no shame there.
I concentrated on the local.
You do what you can for the members.

redstoy
07-03-2009, 12:24 PM
i have 2 years now.ive seen a lot of stuff that isnt perfect but perfection isnt what we expect to get. i expect good and so far ive seen good efforts and good results. we got more than the state was willing to give from binding arbitration, it took some time, so what? i have 23 years more to go before i can lay mysellf out to pasture.

will we get more binding arbitration awards? you bet and an award is better than a zero which is what the state gave when we werent entitled to arbitration.

toughco60
07-03-2009, 01:17 PM
I was a steward for 82 also, no it wasn't perfect but its what we had. There is absolutely no shame there.
I concentrated on the local.
You do what you can for the members.

No disrespect Gladiator.All the unions should do the best they can for their members at all times.That being said,does that always happen NO.Thats why we have are elections for union people.If you don't like the way they are handling things you have that right,that simple.I always say when this comes up all the time.Put yourself in their shoes and what would you do.Easier said then done my friend.There is alot of temptations down in Albany,just look at the politicians,need I say more.

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 01:37 PM
Then why hide this? If you have 12 years, then say so.
How did you know I had 12 years if I hid it. :D

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 01:40 PM
Time on the job means a lotTime on the job means nothing on this message board. That is what I meant.

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 01:42 PM
Why? You seem to have all of the answers already.:rolleyes: I already have your answer in post 355. ;)

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 02:01 PM
How did you know I had 12 years if I hid it. :D
Because you said it in an earlier post.

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 02:05 PM
Hey I wouldn't be putting it out there about C-82 there chief. They made alot of mistakes themselves
All unions make mistakes. I wasn't in Albany during 82's negotiations with the State. I was representing CO's in my facility. FWIW, During 82's reign, I never once voted "YES" on any contracts. And with Binding Arbitration, we won't even get that chance.
Why did I vote "NO", you ask?
Because I felt that every contract could have been better.
And I still feel that way.

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 02:07 PM
I already have your answer in post 355. ;)
You might want to re-read Post #355.
I never once said anything in it.

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 02:38 PM
All unions make mistakes. I wasn't in Albany during 82's negotiations with the State. I was representing CO's in my facility. FWIW, During 82's reign, I never once voted "YES" on any contracts. And with Binding Arbitration, we won't even get that chance.
Why did I vote "NO", you ask?
Because I felt that every contract could have been better.
And I still feel that way.Oh come on, there had to be something special about voting yourself and future 0% raises.

Maybe it's a good thing with binding arbitration that we don't get to vote anymore.:D

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 02:43 PM
Oh come on, there had to be something special about voting yourself and future 0% raises.

Maybe it's a good thing with binding arbitration that we don't get to vote anymore.:D

Now I see why MSICF gets frustrated with you.
Read what I posted again. I said that I never voted YES on any contract.
Never, as in "NEVER". I did not vote yes on any contract that had zeroes in it.
How hard is it for you to understand?
You're definitely a future Asst. Comm.:rolleyes:
I wish that we had mandatory urine testing.
Because you'd be at the top of the test list.

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 03:42 PM
Now I see why MSICF gets frustrated with you.
Read what I posted again. I said that I never voted YES on any contract.
Never, as in "NEVER". I did not vote yes on any contract that had zeroes in it.


I was adding on to what you original said. I was referring to the people who voted "YES" when they voted themselves and future CO's a 0% raise. It's called sarcasm.

Funny how in 12 years I haven't met a single person that voted "Yes". :rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 03:44 PM
I wish that we had mandatory urine testing.
Because you'd be at the top of the test list.Me too. I'd love to move up in seniority.

BSOdeputy
07-03-2009, 06:43 PM
I wish that we had mandatory urine testing.
Because you'd be at the top of the test list.

What? You mean NYSDOCS dosent drug test its officers after the pre-employment process? Not even randomly?

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 07:27 PM
What? You mean NYSDOCS dosent drug test its officers after the pre-employment process? Not even randomly?
Not even randomly. It's been done, but only with probable cause.
Which isn't very often.

BSOdeputy
07-03-2009, 10:00 PM
Not even randomly. It's been done, but only with probable cause.
Which isn't very often.

Wow that must be some law in NY state or something because I have never heard of a LE agency that does not partake in random drug screening of its staff.

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Wow that must be some law in NY state or something because I have never heard of a LE agency that does not partake in random drug screening of its staff.
I don't know of any departments in NYS that do.

DOCS OCT
07-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Me too. I'd love to move up in seniority.
If you pass it, you might move up.

25YearsToGo
07-03-2009, 11:47 PM
If you pass it, you might move up.
There's no doubt I'd do both.

DOCS OCT
07-04-2009, 06:24 AM
There's no doubt I'd do both.
For your sake, I hope you do pass.
But, if you didn't, there's still State Government to fall back on.

25YearsToGo
07-08-2009, 03:03 PM
Any word on when we are getting our money?

YAWN

The comptroller should have it figured out by now and should only be waiting on the Senate.

MSICF
07-08-2009, 06:39 PM
Any word on when we are getting our money?

YAWN

The comptroller should have it figured out by now and should only be waiting on the Senate.

Comptroller can't figure out everyone's salary without first having a date. Overtime needs to be computed and to do so you need an effective date.

25YearsToGo
07-08-2009, 09:16 PM
Comptroller can't figure out everyone's salary without first having a date. Overtime needs to be computed and to do so you need an effective date. The formula they will be using should be figured out by now. They should only be waiting on the date to implement that formula.

They know the 3%/3% and the soft money, only thing they should be waiting for is the date.

Hack4NYS
07-09-2009, 12:13 PM
LOL...I am gonna guess next year. Right before tax time is when we will see the money. But that's Ok in my book. I am stockpiling the Overtime.

On a side note...how is everybody? I have been down for a few months, due to a complete computer overhaul, and life in general. But, I'm back none the less.

DOCS OCT
07-09-2009, 05:16 PM
Actually, we're probably looking at September now. I'd really like to impeach the entire bunch in Albany and hold a general election on January 1st to elect an all new State Government.

MSICF
07-09-2009, 06:03 PM
The formula they will be using should be figured out by now. They should only be waiting on the date to implement that formula.

They know the 3%/3% and the soft money, only thing they should be waiting for is the date.

Not true. Not every Officer worked the same number of OT hours. The retro 3% is also applied to the OT worked. That has to be computed individually.

MSICF
07-09-2009, 06:05 PM
Actually, we're probably looking at September now. I'd really like to impeach the entire bunch in Albany and hold a general election on January 1st to elect an all new State Government.

Espada has jumped ship once again. It looks like the stalemate may be over. One Senator was missing (Doctor's appointment) and he's reported going to be back this evening. Supposedly there will be an evening session. We'll see but it's the most promising outlook in a very long time.

MSICF
07-09-2009, 07:40 PM
Espada has jumped ship once again. It looks like the stalemate may be over. One Senator was missing (Doctor's appointment) and he's reported going to be back this evening. Supposedly there will be an evening session. We'll see but it's the most promising outlook in a very long time.

Update: this Senator is under State Police transport to Albany so the Senate can meet tonight. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have said all week that Thursday would be the day things would be resolved. But they were ****ed at Paterson for interfering by naming a Lt. Gov. I guess it's still "wait-and-see."

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 09:34 AM
Not true. Not every Officer worked the same number of OT hours. The retro 3% is also applied to the OT worked. That has to be computed individually.

It's easy to figure out OT. All this time they been waiting on the Bill they could have been calculating that also. There is no reason not to have everything up to date. The only thing they should be waiting on is the pay date.

Most of your officers would be easy to figure out, 3%, 3%, $1500, $1500, done.
All you need to add now is the officers that have OT, 25 year step, and location pay.

MSICF
07-10-2009, 09:52 AM
It's easy to figure out OT. All this time they been waiting on the Bill they could have been calculating that also. There is no reason not to have everything up to date. The only thing they should be waiting on is the pay date.

Most of your officers would be easy to figure out, 3%, 3%, $1500, $1500, done.
All you need to add now is the officers that have OT, 25 year step, and location pay.

Resource Officers on shifts with inconvenience pay, Officers downstate and then transferred North etc. It's not as easy as you claim. Plenty of reasons.

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 11:34 AM
Resource Officers on shifts with inconvenience pay, Officers downstate and then transferred North etc. It's not as easy as you claim. Plenty of reasons.

I do believe inconvenience pay is not part of our salary, so the 3% raise does not apply to it.

I already mentioned Location Pay.

It's the Comptroller job to figure these things out, his office has had 2 months to get it started, they should not be waiting on a pay date to start figuring things out. If they want to use a pay date they can use July 1, 2009, then all they would need to do is add the retro that comes after that. It's pretty simple.

MSICF
07-10-2009, 11:46 AM
I do believe inconvenience pay is not part of our salary, so the 3% raise does not apply to it.

I already mentioned Location Pay.

It's the Comptroller job to figure these things out, his office has had 2 months to get it started, they should not be waiting on a pay date to start figuring things out. If they want to use a pay date they can use July 1, 2009, then all they would need to do is add the retro that comes after that. It's pretty simple.

You miss the point. Some Officers have worked the shifts w/ inconvenience pay intermittently. Some Officers worked downstate for only part of the contract. These are just some of the variables. I'm not going to argue with you. But it's not simple like you claim. DiNapoli would like to talk to you if you think you can do it. After all he recently met w/ us and explained exactly what I told you. I believe him over you.

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 12:40 PM
You miss the point. Some Officers have worked the shifts w/ inconvenience pay intermittently.You missed the point. Inconvenience pay is not part of salary and is not subject to any retro. There's no point bringing that up.


Some Officers worked downstate for only part of the contract.

The number of hours OT people worked, Location Pay, and 25 Year step for those 2 years numbers will not change. So that makes it even easier to figure out. The only thing we are getting retro on after April 1, 2009 is the 3% and 3% increase. All those other things are only retro for those 2 years prior.

Please try not to make something out to harder than it is.

MSICF
07-10-2009, 12:42 PM
You missed the point. Inconvenience pay is not part of salary and is not subject to any retro. There's no point bringing that up.



The number of hours OT people worked, Location Pay, and 25 Year step for those 2 years numbers will not change. So that makes it even easier to figure out. The only thing we are getting retro on as of April 1, 2009 is the 3% and 3% increase. All those other things are only retro for those 2 years.

Please try not to make something harder than it is.

DiNapoli is wrong?

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 12:45 PM
DiNapoli would like to talk to you if you think you can do it. There's probably 300 CO's in my facility that don't get Location pay, nor do they have 25 years, and also don't work overtime.

Yeah that's real hard to figure out 3%, 3%, and $3000 in Expanded Duty pay. :rolleyes:

For somebody who's job it is to figure those things out, it should be real simple. Especially since they already had 2 month to do so.

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 12:46 PM
DiNapoli is wrong?
cite?link?

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 12:47 PM
DiNapoli is wrong?
One thing I do know that is wrong is you. We don't get retro on inconvenience pay, so why are you even bringing it up?

MSICF
07-10-2009, 12:53 PM
One thing I do know that is wrong is you. We don't get retro on inconvenience pay, so why are you even bringing it up?

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/contact.htm

MSICF
07-10-2009, 12:56 PM
cite?link?

http://www.nyscopba.org/0906Comptroller

DOCS OCT
07-10-2009, 01:40 PM
I do believe inconvenience pay is not part of our salary, so the 3% raise does not apply to it.

I already mentioned Location Pay.

It's the Comptroller job to figure these things out, his office has had 2 months to get it started, they should not be waiting on a pay date to start figuring things out. If they want to use a pay date they can use July 1, 2009, then all they would need to do is add the retro that comes after that. It's pretty simple.

You keep mentioning Location Pay.
I take it that you get this?

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 02:00 PM
You keep mentioning Location Pay.
I take it that you get this?

No, but some officers do.


There's probably 300 CO's in my facility that don't get Location pay, nor do they have 25 years, and also don't work overtime.

For the most of us it will be...


Yeah that's real hard to figure out 3%, 3%, and $3000 in Expanded Duty pay. :rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 02:01 PM
http://www.nyscopba.org/0906ComptrollerA picture is proof of what?

DOCS OCT
07-10-2009, 02:02 PM
No, but some officers do.



For the most of us it will be...

The last quote wasn't from me.

DOCS OCT
07-10-2009, 02:03 PM
A picture is proof of what?
That he has met with the union (twice that I am aware of) and will be meeting with us again when Patterson signs the bill and hopefully, we will get a date on when we can expect to get our money.

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 02:04 PM
The last quote wasn't from me.I fixed it. Sorry, copy and pasted wrong name.

DOCS OCT
07-10-2009, 02:11 PM
I fixed it. Sorry, copy and pasted wrong name.
Thank you.:cool:

MSICF
07-10-2009, 02:37 PM
That he has met with the union (twice that I am aware of) and will be meeting with us again when Patterson signs the bill and hopefully, we will get a date on when we can expect to get our money.

Aye. I know what he said at the meeting at NYSCOPBA's offices. And I choose to believe him. He won't do 2 calculations like some want. Waste of time. Calculating from Point A to Point B and from Point B to Point C is utterly stupid.

25YearsToGo
07-10-2009, 04:22 PM
He won't do 2 calculations like some want. Waste of time. Calculating from Point A to Point B and from Point B to Point C is utterly stupid.
Yeah because sitting back doing nothing waiting for a date is so smart.:rolleyes:

The retro on overtime, the location pay, and the 25 year step won't change no matter what date they put. Seems to me the smarter thing would be to do what you can now and then wait for the final date. But I'm just a stupid hack, what do I know.

25YearsToGo
07-13-2009, 08:03 AM
I wouldn't pretend to know which way is easier but I do know that they are doing at least two different calculations for us. From the way I understand it they will be getting our OT back pay at a later date than the normal back pay. I heard a rumor that they will be doing that with us as well.

25YearsToGo
07-13-2009, 01:51 PM
Well I really didn't want to pick sides here in your ongoing battle with MSICF but it is primarily based on what you said. The back pay is a simple formula based on your start date and the location you worked at the time and yes they easily could and may have started that before the bill is signed. LOL, it's not picking sides, it's just common sense. It's not very hard to figure out 3%, 3%, 25 year Step, Location Pay, and $3000 Expanded Duty pay.

toughco60
07-13-2009, 05:35 PM
Well did gov. bonehead sign the bill or what.All of a sudden he's not in any big hurry.....go figure:eek:

MSICF
07-13-2009, 06:00 PM
LOL, it's not picking sides, it's just common sense. It's not very hard to figure out 3%, 3%, 25 year Step, Location Pay, and $3000 Expanded Duty pay.

Does your common sense tell you how they will compute the retro for those that retired during the arbitration period? Just another one of those variables. And there are more.

Trooper4985
07-13-2009, 06:03 PM
Well did gov. bonehead sign the bill or what.All of a sudden he's not in any big hurry.....go figure:eek:

What is your paybill #? Plug it in here (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/) to check on it's status.

As for Albany's motivation to move... check out this contract. (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A08254)

From experience... I will say that he will sign it at the last minute to make it look like he is doing you a favor but in reality... unless he vetos it (and the veto is upheld), it becomes law even without his signature.

DOCS OCT
07-13-2009, 08:09 PM
Well did gov. bonehead sign the bill or what.All of a sudden he's not in any big hurry.....go figure:eek:
He was in Syracuse today pimping some crap program of his.
He might get to it by week's end. :mad:

DOCS OCT
07-13-2009, 08:11 PM
What is your paybill #? Plug it in here (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/) to check on it's status.

As for Albany's motivation to move... check out this contract. (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A08254)

From experience... I will say that he will sign it at the last minute to make it look like he is doing you a favor but in reality... unless he vetos it (and the veto is upheld), it becomes law even without his signature.
It's S5966. All it says is that it was delivered to the Governor.

toughco60
07-13-2009, 09:49 PM
I don't know about you,but I'm wondering what the union is doing about it ! I mean what the hell are they doing.Are they sitting around patting each other on the back at the bar or what.Finish the JOB!!!

DOCS OCT
07-14-2009, 12:40 AM
I don't know about you,but I'm wondering what the union is doing about it ! I mean what the hell are they doing.Are they sitting around patting each other on the back at the bar or what.Finish the JOB!!!

They should be in his office, putting the bill right under his nose so that he can find it to sign. And this needs to be done yesterday. Although he made the Senate work over the weekend doesn't mean that he was willing to get all of the bills signed over the weekend as well. Each day that this isn't signed is another day without our money going where it needs to go.
In our pockets.

Willard_DTC
07-14-2009, 06:42 AM
Paterson probably won't make it back from Syracuse. In all likelihood he has Stevie Wonder as his personal driver...........:D

25YearsToGo
07-14-2009, 07:54 AM
Come on now those checks could already be done as their retirement date is what matters not the date the contract is signed. I'm not arguing with you that there is work involved I am simply saying that a lot of this stuff can be started before the Gov's signature w/o creating extra work for anyone. Common sense.


I swear you two would argue over the color of the sky. I swear he would. He follows me around just to start an argument.

25YearsToGo
07-14-2009, 07:57 AM
I don't know about you,but I'm wondering what the union is doing about it ! I mean what the hell are they doing.Are they sitting around patting each other on the back at the bar or what.Finish the JOB!!!They are to busy in negotiations with the next contract.

4 months late already.:rolleyes:

25YearsToGo
07-14-2009, 08:02 AM
Does your common sense tell you how they will compute the retro for those that retired during the arbitration period? Just another one of those variables. And there are more. And that would be one of the easiest to figure out seeing as how they already have their end date. Keep trying to make things sound harder than they really are. No one believes you.

25YearsToGo
07-14-2009, 08:27 AM
I mean what the hell are they doing.Are they sitting around patting each other on the back at the bar or what. They are figuring out the retro dues money they will be getting and figuring out what they can waste it on.

toughco60
07-14-2009, 09:05 AM
Working on the next contract!Drop two guys behind or more to finish this contract.All you need to do is have the idiot sign the bill ,how hard is that ?

25YearsToGo
07-15-2009, 09:20 AM
As for Albany's motivation to move... check out this contract. (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A08254)




Section 1 of the bill would repeal Executive Law S 215(2) and replace it
with new provisions that would increase the salary schedules for members
of affected units. Basic annual salaries for members of affected units
will increase by 3 percent, effective April 1, 2007; 3 percent, effec-
tive April 1, 2008; 3 percent, effective April 1, 2009; and 4 percent
effective April 1, 2010.
Must be nice to have schedule raises for 2009 and 2010 already in place. We'll spend $5 million dollars on lawyers to hope to get the same thing in 3 years.

JailCopNY
07-15-2009, 12:10 PM
The Gov Has Signed The Paybill!

From the email from NYSCOPBA:

July 15, 2009
Arbitration Eligible Members:

I take great pleasure to inform you that the Governor has signed our pay bill into law. We
have already met several times with the State Comptroller’s office to discuss a timeline for
payment and the other issues surrounding implementation of the award. We will meet again
today and keep you informed as the payment process moves forward.

In Unity,
Donn Rowe,
NYSCOPBA President

toughco60
07-15-2009, 12:16 PM
Well as Mel Allen used to say"Well How About That"

DOCS OCT
07-15-2009, 02:57 PM
It's about freaking time.
This should have been done five days ago.
More lost time that the Comptroller could have used to get the money into out checks.
Where it belongs.

25YearsToGo
07-15-2009, 03:43 PM
07

Made $53,320
Should have made: 54,918

Difference $1598 + $1500 EDP + $74 PSB = $3172

08

Made $53,320
SHM: $56,568

Difference $3248 + $1500 EDP + $81 PSB = $4829

Retro Total: $8001*

*Does not include whatever retro there is on the 8 paycheck so far this year or the back dues the union will be taking. If my calculations are right there is approximately $1000 in retro so far for this year. Around $125 per paycheck more.

Total $9001 and counting.

Trooper4985
07-15-2009, 04:06 PM
07

Made $53,320
Should have made: 54,918

Difference $1598 + $1500 EDP + $74 PSB = $3172

08

Made $53,320
SHM: $56,568

Difference $3248 + $1500 EDP + $81 PSB = $4829

Retro Total: $8001*

*Does not include whatever retro there is on the 8 paycheck so far this year or the back dues the union will be taking. If my calculations are right there is approximately $1000 in retro so far for this year. Around $125 per paycheck more.

Total $9001 and counting.

Make sure you bring your own KY when you open that check... here is what we are being told for our (non OT) retro pay.

"This check will be taxed at the maximum tax rate because they are treating this check as if it were the amount you would receive as your bi-weekly salary. These rates are as follow; Federal Tax 35%, State 6.85%, Medicare 1.45%, and Social Security 6.2%."

25YearsToGo
07-15-2009, 05:57 PM
Make sure you bring your own KY when you open that check... here is what we are being told for our (non OT) retro pay.

The last time we got retro they put it in with our regular pay and I grossed $9211 and bought home $5149.

$2402 in federal tax :eek:

That's ok though, just means more I'll get back at tax time. ;)

naze69
07-15-2009, 06:33 PM
This being an award , it should be seperate checks . Correct ?

DOCSatTheGunk
07-15-2009, 06:34 PM
I'm glad to hear that Governor Patterson decided to do the right thing and sign our contract into law. I still will not be voting for him come election time. But its nice to know they didnt drag this out anymore than he could have.

DOCS OCT
07-15-2009, 07:21 PM
This being an award , it should be seperate checks . Correct ?
I can't remember if it was or not.
I think that we got it in a regular check.

DOCS OCT
07-15-2009, 07:22 PM
I'm glad to hear that Governor Patterson decided to do the right thing and sign our contract into law. I still will not be voting for him come election time. But its nice to know they didnt drag this out anymore than he could have.
Unless he runs as an Independent, he won't even be on the ballot.
Andrew Cuomo will get the Dems' nod.

naze69
07-15-2009, 07:57 PM
The last one we got was with check , but that was a negotiated contract . I think because this was an arbitrated award , it will be separated .

DOCS OCT
07-15-2009, 08:11 PM
The last one we got was with check , but that was a negotiated contract . I think because this was an arbitrated award , it will be separated .
Umm...according to the union, the last one was an award too.
Either way, they're gonna tax the crapola out of it.

25YearsToGo
07-15-2009, 09:14 PM
I think that we got it in a regular check.That would be correct.

The last time we got retro they put it in with our regular pay and I grossed $9211 and bought home $5149.

Hack4NYS
07-16-2009, 01:09 AM
Well, it's about time. So what kind of a timeline are we looking at for our money?? 3 months? October? November? I am not too worried about it being taxed to high heaven, though. I figure we have been this patient, we can be a little more patient and get the rest next tax season!!

Maybe Gov. H. Keller signed it quick...hoping to get our votes for next year! Ummm, I vote we kick his a** out. Anyone agree??

Willard_DTC
07-16-2009, 01:40 AM
Maybe Gov. H. Keller signed it quick...hoping to get our votes for next year! Ummm, I vote we kick his a** out. Anyone agree??

I think he has done an excellent job of kicking HIMSELF out of office. As DOCS said.....I highly doubt that we will even see him run. It's gonna be a Cuomo vs Giuliani race for the Governors office I'm thinking.

toughco60
07-16-2009, 09:07 AM
Cuomo a bad choice,anyone remember his old man when in office?Holy crap lag pay a couple of big Fat OOO's in the contract.The apple doesn't fall far from the tree my friends.This clown was the head of HUD in Washington and bailed out when things got rough.Can anyone say Freddy Mac.In this case anyone is not better.

MSICF
07-16-2009, 09:29 AM
That would be correct.

The last time we got retro they put it in with our regular pay and I grossed $9211 and bought home $5149.

No. Last time you got a $7500. advance on the award in a seperate check. It didn't arrive all at once.

MSICF
07-16-2009, 09:31 AM
Well, it's about time. So what kind of a timeline are we looking at for our money?? 3 months? October? November? I am not too worried about it being taxed to high heaven, though. I figure we have been this patient, we can be a little more patient and get the rest next tax season!!

Maybe Gov. H. Keller signed it quick...hoping to get our votes for next year! Ummm, I vote we kick his a** out. Anyone agree??

More info on website.
Tentative date for payout will be given end of this month.

MSICF
07-16-2009, 09:35 AM
Umm...according to the union, the last one was an award too.
Either way, they're gonna tax the crapola out of it.

A case of "you can pay me now....or you can pay me later." Some Officer's changed dependent count in order to get a larger lumpy. You got $ upfront but at tax time you suffered. Some used Deferred Comp. Not sure how that plays out.
Our lawyers researched tax laws in an effort to lessen the burden but there are no loopholes. It's salary, plain and simple. Income and subject to taxing. One of the "pleasures" of living in NY.

25YearsToGo
07-16-2009, 12:35 PM
No. Last time you got a $7500. advance on the award in a seperate check. It didn't arrive all at once.More lies. My pay stub sitting right in front of me would say different. You might want to recheck your misinformation.

Try checking the 8/03/06 to 8/16/06 pay check that has the $7500 lump sum included in your pay check.

There was also retro money included in the pay checks 9/14/06-9/27/06 and 9/28/06 to 10/11/06.

MSICF
07-16-2009, 12:44 PM
More lies. My pay stub sitting right in front of me would say different. You might want to recheck your misinformation.

Try checking the 8/03/06 to 8/16/06 pay check that has the $7500 lump sum included in your pay check.

There was also retro money included in the pay checks 9/14/06-9/27/06 and 9/28/06 to 10/11/06.

Bldg. 2 pay differently?

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/agencies/pbull/agencies/2005_2006/bulet648a.htm

25YearsToGo
07-16-2009, 12:47 PM
Bldg. 2 pay differently?

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/agencies/pbull/agencies/2005_2006/bulet648a.htm
Once again, check your pay stubs. The facts are in black and white.

25YearsToGo
07-16-2009, 12:49 PM
You might want to learn to read.

The Cash Advance Payment (CAP) will be processed in Pay Period 10L, paychecks dated 8/31/06 (Institution) and 9/6/06 (Administration).

Did you even read the link your posted? :rolleyes:

DOCSatTheGunk
07-16-2009, 12:49 PM
You know how they settled disputes back in the day? The had a sword fight or better yet..A DUEL!! Why not just meet behind the monkey bars after school and scrap?? I won't tell the principal..

25YearsToGo
07-16-2009, 12:51 PM
You know how they settled disputes back in the day? The had a sword fight or better yet..A DUEL!! Why not just meet behind the monkey bars after school and scrap?? I won't tell the principal..He just can't live with the fact I'm right. The dude just argues to argue. Even when he proves himself wrong.

NYSCOsoon
07-19-2009, 01:42 AM
This may have already been answered but I was just re-reading the interest arbitration award on union website. It tells how to figure out complete salary but makes no mention of pre-shift briefing so did we lose that or not?

MSICF
07-19-2009, 05:42 PM
This may have already been answered but I was just re-reading the interest arbitration award on union website. It tells how to figure out complete salary but makes no mention of pre-shift briefing so did we lose that or not?

Pre-shift remains as it was, for now. It was a sticking point in arbitration so Selchick had NYSCOPBA and the state agree to overhaul it during labor-mgt. meetings. Selchick wanted the award ASAP. A committee will be formed soon to start the process. Recent Sector elections has held up the formation of the committee.

Hack4NYS
07-23-2009, 11:06 PM
You know how they settled disputes back in the day? The had a sword fight or better yet..A DUEL!! Why not just meet behind the monkey bars after school and scrap?? I won't tell the principal..

You better not tell the principal....'cause in NY jails, we all know what happens to snitches!! LOL!

DOCS OCT
07-24-2009, 03:08 AM
You better not tell the principal....'cause in NY jails, we all know what happens to snitches!! LOL!
Yeah.
They get promoted.:rolleyes: