Fresno PD OIS

[Sig4U]

http://www.kcra.com/news/19039460/detail.html



KCRA.com
Fresno Police-Involved Shooting Fatal
Police: 23-Year-Old Man Refused To Put Gun Down

POSTED: 9:26 am PDT March 29, 2009
UPDATED: 10:03 am PDT March 29, 2009
FRESNO, Calif. -- Two Fresno police officers shot and killed a 23-year-old man who refused to put down a handgun then allegedly pointed it at them and may have fired, Police Chief Jerry Dyer said Saturday.

Stephen Willis, 23, was killed at about 1.am. outside an apartment complex where the officers were investigating a disturbance. Dyer said a vehicle drove erratically past them and when the officers caught up with it, a suspect was standing near the trunk, holding a gun and holster.

"The officers immediately told the individual to put the gun down while drawing their firearms," Dyer said. "However, the suspect refused to drop the gun and in fact pulled the gun out of the holster while stepping back and at the same time pointed that gun in the direction of the officers."

The officers fired off 35 rounds, killing Willis, according to Dyer. The .38-caliber revolver found next to him was missing a round, he said.

Willis' parents held a separate news conference with their lawyers to condemn their son's death as unprovoked.

"He was a good boy. He would not have done what the police said he did," said Willis' father, Chris Willis, who is chief of security at Saint Agnes Medical Center. "It doesn't make any sense. It is murderous."

Willis was the fifth person this year to be shot by Fresno police officers, and the second to be killed during a confrontation with police, Dyer said. Earlier this week, the Fresno City Council voted to establish an independent police auditor to monitor the police department.

Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


He refused to put the gun down, drew it, pointed it, and he got smoked. Clean shoot. End of story. He obviously wasn't the "good boy" his father speaks of. Notice the quote from the father, "It is murderous." :rolleyes:

[Hi-Def]

Gosh darn 35 bullets with what sounds like a clean line of sight. Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots. With that many shots at least one of them had to reload. Is it just me or is there a serious increase in shooting deaths in America over the last month?

[IE Copper]

Gosh darn 35 bullets with what sounds like a clean line of sight. Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots. With that many shots at least one of them had to reload. Is it just me or is there a serious increase in shooting deaths in America over the last month?


35 seems a bit excessive, but we don't know all the facts, only the shooting team and the officers do. We can't make that determination unless we were in their shoes. The shooting team will have to try to decide with the information presented to them.

I have been involved in two OISs. In both incidents, multiple shots were fired to stop the threat. Both were found to be justifiable homicide. I see things from a different view now.

[McGruff]

Gosh darn 35 bullets with what sounds like a clean line of sight. Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots. With that many shots at least one of them had to reload. Is it just me or is there a serious increase in shooting deaths in America over the last month?

You will hear/learn that most officers who are involved in OIS cannot recall exactly how many rounds they fired, let alone a magazine change. Also you'd be lucky getting half of those rounds to hit the suspect.

[BklynsFinest347]

Good job to the officers involved. May the perp burn in hell for all eternity...

We owe it to our family & loved ones to come home safely at the end of every tour.

[Hi-Def]

You will hear/learn that most officers who are involved in OIS cannot recall exactly how many rounds they fired, let alone a magazine change. Also you'd be lucky getting half of those rounds to hit the suspect.

Yeah thanks, I don't start my academy for another 3 weeks and have worked with many officers/deputies who say the same thing. So I well be learning to see it from your POV soon enough. Thats just seems weird to me because I grew up in a neighborhood where shots rang out all the time, and the couple shootings I was unlucky enough to witness either by sight or sound I always knew how many shots were being fired. Hell sometimes what gun they were using. But they weren't shooting at me, well at least I don't think they were so that could make a difference.

But like someone said thank goodness the officers made it home safely, and like another poster said we don't know the details. So we should remember that someone is dead and a family is grieving a loved one. We shouldn't ask they burn in hell until we know the facts. What if he was mentally ill or something. If its one thing this forum has taught me is don't jump to conclusions.

[pulicords]

I don't start my academy for another 3 weeks and have worked with many officers/deputies who say the same thing. So I well be learning to see it from your POV soon enough.

......we should remember that someone is dead and a family is grieving a loved one. We shouldn't ask they burn in hell until we know the facts. What if he was mentally ill or something.

The above post as well as your previous post clearly indicate your lack of knowledge and experience (ignorance ?) about what happens in real police shootings. They also seem to show you're pretty quick at making false assumptions (ie: "Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots.").

I'd suggest that upon entering the academy, you spend more time listening and learning, than spouting off opinions you aren't experienced enough to base on facts.

FWIW: Some studies have shown that those discharging firearms during real life and death situations might only be capable of achieving 50% of the level of accuracy they achieve during practice. Additionally, shooting a living/breathing persons doesn't always provide "feedback" to show you have hits or that they were placed in vital areas. Unlike TV, the movies, metallic silhouettes, or paper targets (where hits can be seen), people often won't react immediately to being shot.

[avalon42]

+1 pulicords.

Hi-Def, during our range training at my academy, the instructors always reminded us, "Who is most important?" The correct answer is "me". It is sad and tragic for the loss of life, but you go home at night, no matter what. Settle that issue in your mind right now, because your hesitation may kill you. We were talking about the OIS's and also how officers can be ambushed (like the Oceanside PD officer that was shot dead with a rifle while on a TS).

Now if you were Secret Service, you may have to dive in front of that bullet for the dignitary that you are protecting...but that's another story.

[Ranger Hoot]

The above post as well as your previous post clearly indicate your lack of knowledge and experience (ignorance ?) about what happens in real police shootings. They also seem to show you're pretty quick at making false assumptions (ie: "Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots.").

I'd suggest that upon entering the academy, you spend more time listening and learning, than spouting off opinions you aren't experienced enough to base on facts.

FWIW: Some studies have shown that those discharging firearms during real life and death situations might only be capable of achieving 50% of the level of accuracy they achieve during practice. Additionally, shooting a living/breathing persons doesn't always provide "feedback" to show you have hits or that they were placed in vital areas. Unlike TV, the movies, metallic silhouettes, or paper targets (where hits can be seen), people often won't react immediately to being shot.

Add to that lighting effect (or lack of), a portion of the target behind concealment (say from the chest down), frame of mind, contagious fire...and much more.

I have not been involved in an OIS, but from my training in the military coupled with my LE training, 30 rounds between two coppers is about right, IMO. Obviously there are a million variables for every situation, but given the right ones, 30 rounds is good to go.

I know I am going to be emptying my mag, followed by a reload.

[ateamer]

What does the number of rounds being fired have to do with anything? One shot is deadly force and 35 shots is deadly force. There are no varying levels of deadly force.

[pulicords]

What does the number of rounds being fired have to do with anything? One shot is deadly force and 35 shots is deadly force. There are no varying levels of deadly force.

You use the amount of force needed to eliminate the threat. When the threat is dealt with, the shooting should stop. No more, no less.

[Hi-Def]

The above post as well as your previous post clearly indicate your lack of knowledge and experience (ignorance ?) about what happens in real police shootings. They also seem to show you're pretty quick at making false assumptions (ie: "Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots.").

I'd suggest that upon entering the academy, you spend more time listening and learning, than spouting off opinions you aren't experienced enough to base on facts.

FWIW: Some studies have shown that those discharging firearms during real life and death situations might only be capable of achieving 50% of the level of accuracy they achieve during practice. Additionally, shooting a living/breathing persons doesn't always provide "feedback" to show you have hits or that they were placed in vital areas. Unlike TV, the movies, metallic silhouettes, or paper targets (where hits can be seen), people often won't react immediately to being shot.

Wow great deductive logic, did my revelation that I'm not yet a sworn PO lead you to conclude that I have a "lack of knowledge and experience". No way? God forbid you have to start somewhere. And I'm pretty sure I didn't say I had all the facts to the shooting.

Anyway I've seen people shot and literary "walk it off" so I know a bullet does't stop everyone dead. And like I said I know POs who have been in OIS, and you know what? They knew exactly how many shots they let off. Maybe you should come down off of your infallible pedestal before you make assumptions about what I've learned & my life experiences. I'll be damned an OIS isn't an exact science with the same outcome regardless of variables. Shocking!

[pulicords]

Wow great deductive logic, did my revelation that I'm not yet a sworn PO lead you to conclude that I have a "lack of knowledge and experience". No way? God forbid you have to start somewhere. And I'm pretty sure I didn't say I had all the facts to the shooting.

Any noobie that makes a statement like this "Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots." on a forum with experienced officers (no matter how hard they try and qualify it later) is going to get a response. If you're going to start questioning the "deductive logic" of those who try and educate you on issues like this, your "career" in law enforcement is going to be short and probably not so sweet. Good luck in the academy and during your FTO period (if you make it that far).

[FJDave]

I seriously doubt that, with that attitude, he'll make it to the end of the academy. If so, his FTO will eat his lunch effortlessly.

[LAC_LE]

Wow great deductive logic, did my revelation that I'm not yet a sworn PO lead you to conclude that I have a "lack of knowledge and experience". No way? God forbid you have to start somewhere. And I'm pretty sure I didn't say I had all the facts to the shooting.

Anyway I've seen people shot and literary "walk it off" so I know a bullet does't stop everyone dead. And like I said I know POs who have been in OIS, and you know what? They knew exactly how many shots they let off. Maybe you should come down off of your infallible pedestal before you make assumptions about what I've learned & my life experiences. I'll be damned an OIS isn't an exact science with the same outcome regardless of variables. Shocking!

Dude. If your goal is to become a LEO, I strongly recommend you take Pulicords' advice to do more listening and learning in the academy before presenting your opinions on O.com.

Practically every post on this thread that you take issue with came from a LEO. One look at Pulicords' profile alone would tell you that he has 30 years of LE experience in everything from Patrol to RHD to FTO. Now, regardless of how much you may know about OISs (or anything LE-related, for that matter), I can just about guarantee you that Pulicords knows more.

I'm not trying to pile on here, just giving you some friendly advice. Do with it what you will. But if this is the attitude that you're going to take with you to the academy, it's not even worth your time to show up.

[Se7en]

Seems like I read about a lot of shootings happening over there in Fresno. Place sounds like a war zone.

[Hi-Def]

Dude. If your goal is to become a LEO, I strongly recommend you take Pulicords' advice to do more listening and learning in the academy before presenting your opinions on O.com.

Practically every post on this thread that you take issue with came from a LEO. One look at Pulicords' profile alone would tell you that he has 30 years of LE experience in everything from Patrol to RHD to FTO. Now, regardless of how much you may know about OISs (or anything LE-related, for that matter), I can just about guarantee you that Pulicords knows more.

I'm not trying to pile on here, just giving you some friendly advice. Do with it what you will. But if this is the attitude that you're going to take with you to the academy, it's not even worth your time to show up.

I know that I know next to nothing compared to Pulicord & I wasn't trying to be disrespectful & I respect his career and all he's done. But he didn't respond to me in a respectful manner he came off like a ******. Which is perfectly fine if he was my FTO & trying to teach me in the best way he knows how. But I don't work for his department & he is mot my FTO so I wasn't about to swallow his insults. You would think that a man who has been a police officer longer than I have been alive would have a little more tact when communicating with a person who wants to follow in the same footsteps as him.

[avalon42]

I know that I know next to nothing compared to Pulicord & I wasn't trying to be disrespectful & I respect his career and all he's done. But he didn't respond to me in a respectful manner he came off like a ******. Which is perfectly fine if he was my FTO & trying to teach me in the best way he knows how. But I don't work for his department & he is mot my FTO so I wasn't about to swallow his insults. You would think that a man who has been a police officer longer than I have been alive would have a little more tact when communicating with a person who wants to follow in the same footsteps as him.

I'm curious. If you acknowledge that pulicords has more knowledge and experience than you AND you respect him, then you must concede that any statement or evaluation he makes about you may ring true.

And based on your response to his evaluation, I wouldn't want you for a partner nor in my academy without a major attitude check. You'll find out fast that **** rolls downhill. Deal with it.

[pulicords]

I don't work for his department & he is mot my FTO so I wasn't about to swallow his insults. You would think that a man who has been a police officer longer than I have been alive would have a little more tact when communicating with a person who wants to follow in the same footsteps as him.

1) I would suggest you develop a thicker skin in addition to better listening (reading) skills.
2) How do you know I didn't work for "your department" and still communicate with those who do? :rolleyes:

Learn from whichever source offers training points. If you like them or not, wherever they happen to be from.

[SgtCHP]

If its one thing this forum has taught me is don't jump to conclusions.

Wow, your statement certainly is not supported by your post

Gosh darn 35 bullets with what sounds like a clean line of sight. Either the guy was superman, wearing military grade armor, or these two cops were awful shots.

Looks to me like you were casting judgement and jumping to conclusions without any supportive evidence.

Additionally, you responded to a few other posts in this thread with utter disrespect of the OFFICERS who are trying to clarify issues. You also state that you are not starting the academy for a few more weeks; yet, you offend Pulicords and others stating that because they (he) is not your training officer you are not going to accept any constructive criticism.

I know that I know next to nothing compared to Pulicord & I wasn't trying to be disrespectful & I respect his career and all he's done. But he didn't respond to me in a respectful manner he came off like a ******. Which is perfectly fine if he was my FTO & trying to teach me in the best way he knows how. But I don't work for his department & he is mot my FTO so I wasn't about to swallow his insults. You would think that a man who has been a police officer longer than I have been alive would have a little more tact when communicating with a person who wants to follow in the same footsteps as him.

Learn to let, what you perceive to be, personal attacks slide. If you cannot control your thoughts and responses in here, you are going to have a very difficult time in the field. You appear to be trying too hard to be accepted as an experienced LEO and trust me, that attitude is showing. Don't do it!

I have been involved in OIS incidents and they are not fun!

Now, if you wish to attack me as you have done Pulicords, remember this my young friend, I am old enough to be your grandfather; and, if you are fortunate enough to exact a career such as mine, you will be fortunate and rewarded by God.

Good luck in your quest!

[Hi-Def]

I'd never attack you Sgt. nor any sworn officer here. The reason I'm here is to learn. But I have been told that I don't learn well to negative reinforcement. If an experienced officer wants to tell me about my (wrong) opinion believe me I'm at full attention, but once you call me ignorant its all "in one ear out the other". Thank you for the tact sir, my opinions only seem to be wrong here because I don't have LE field experience, but I guarantee you were a great cop.

And as everyone else who hopped on Pulicords side with "you're going fail" "you wont last long" sayings; almost hoping this was going to turn into a flame war, well I prey for you. In the last 6 months (when no one has been hiring) I been either hired or offered sworn employment by 3 different law enforcement agencies. Thats 3 different Background investigators, 3 different sets of lieutenants and sergeants, etc. Its nice that from a few post you can detect what none of those combined hundreds of years of police experience could not. That I couldn't cut it. Hmm, I say fire them all and have Officer.com do the hiring from now on.

[Hi-Def]

1) I would suggest you develop a thicker skin in addition to better listening (reading) skills.
2) How do you know I didn't work for "your department" and still communicate with those who do? :rolleyes:

Learn from whichever source offers training points. If you like them or not, wherever they happen to be from.

1. Believe me my skin is as thick as it could be, you never walked a day in my shoes. And I do believe I have comprehention skills, six years of college and 2 degrees will do that for you. Remember assumptions?

2. Haha, I always think ahead. All my info here is "altered" ever so slightly enough you (or and criminal for that fact) could never know who I am.

And thanks for that last bit of advise, I'll take it to heart. Believe me I love constructive criticism, I think its the best way to learn. If we had the same same discussion in person I'm sure it would have went different. I just don't do internet criticism well, who knows who we really are or what our agendas are. Cheers.

[R1pilot]

Hi-Def,


Please, for the love of God, just let it go. Your identity is not as "hidden" as you believe it is. It may not occur right away, but when properly motivated, the guys you are "poking with a stick" will make a serious effort to find out who you are, and when that happens, you are going to wish you had never even created a profile on this site. It is a very small world.

As someone who has burned a bridge or two (and is seriously regretting every minute of it) take some advice from me and back away from the keyboard.

[avalon42]

And as everyone else who hopped on Pulicords side with "you're going fail" "you wont last long" sayings; almost hoping this was going to turn into a flame war, well I prey for you. In the last 6 months (when no one has been hiring) I been either hired or offered sworn employment by 3 different law enforcement agencies. Thats 3 different Background investigators, 3 different sets of lieutenants and sergeants, etc. Its nice that from a few post you can detect what none of those combined hundreds of years of police experience could not. That I couldn't cut it. Hmm, I say fire them all and have Officer.com do the hiring from now on.

1. Believe me my skin is as thick as it could be, you never walked a day in my shoes. And I do believe I have comprehention skills, six years of college and 2 degrees will do that for you. Remember assumptions?

2. Haha, I always think ahead. All my info here is "altered" ever so slightly enough you (or and criminal for that fact) could never know who I am.

And thanks for that last bit of advise, I'll take it to heart. Believe me I love constructive criticism, I think its the best way to learn. If we had the same same discussion in person I'm sure it would have went different. I just don't do internet criticism well, who knows who we really are or what our agendas are. Cheers.

So let me get this straight...you are sponsored with SDPD, have two degrees, going to Miramar in April, and have a GIANT chip on your shoulder...

...btw, comprehension.

[IE Copper]

LOL Avalon42, you beat me to it. He says that he has made it where he can't be found, but he has led a trail that any academy graduate could follow. I wonder how many officers here know some tac officers at Miramar College Academy. I wonder how many students are starting in April from SDPD... I wonder if this kid is lying about even going to the academy.

[FJDave]

LOL Avalon42, you beat me to it. He says that he has made it where he can't be found, but he has led a trail that any academy graduate could follow. I wonder how many officers here know some tac officers at Miramar College Academy. I wonder how many students are starting in April from SDPD... I wonder if this kid is lying about even going to the academy.

Exactly right....maybe a link can be provided to the ramrod at the next academy for Day 0? :D

[Sig4U]

Wow....I never thought my thread would turn into such an exciting and interesting dispute. Oh well, I enjoyed reading everyone's posts. :)

[avalon42]

LOL Avalon42, you beat me to it. He says that he has made it where he can't be found, but he has led a trail that any academy graduate could follow. I wonder how many officers here know some tac officers at Miramar College Academy. I wonder how many students are starting in April from SDPD... I wonder if this kid is lying about even going to the academy.

Several of the SDPD TOs teach at my academy also, though one recently got transferred full-time to Miramar. If he gets wind of Hi-Def's attitude early on, he will definitely take care of it.

My friend through La Mesa PD is at Miramar right now; they become the senior class in a week.

[pulicords]

So let me get this straight...you are sponsored with SDPD, have two degrees, going to Miramar in April, and have a GIANT chip on your shoulder...

...btw, comprehension.

He's turned down a corrections spot with San Diego SD, may have worked with three agencies in the Bay area (where he "grew up") and spent a lot of time in Oakland. Also, he "preys" for me! :rolleyes:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Pulicords/TheInternet-OnceYouPostIt-1.jpg

[IE Copper]

I found this, written by HiDef, in another thread;

"Hemicop, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. i'm not sure how you do it in AZ, but where I'm from all 3 law enforcement agencies I've worked for mission statement included being part of the community, they stressed helping out when you can. If you show support towards the community they will return that support. A Police Officer's job isn't ONLY to give out TCs & arrest bad guys. You sound like cops should always be hostile to everyone they meet. You have to remember they are all (or mostly) human beings. Its to SERVE and protect.

and btw i completely agree with alpha1906's post."


I didn't realize that he has worked for 3 Police agencies. If this is not a lie, which i'm sure it is, then his responses to this thread are even more bizarre.

[IE Copper]

Double post

[pappabacon]

Also, he "preys" for me! :

That was the funniest part for me. You better watch your back, or he's gonna get ya.:eek:

[ateamer]

Wait, do I have this right? This clown claims to have worked for three different agencies, but hasn't been to the academy yet? If so, he hasn't worked in any position that qualifies him to run his yap here.

[avalon42]

He's turned down a corrections spot with San Diego SD, may have worked with three agencies in the Bay area (where he "grew up") and spent a lot of time in Oakland. Also, he "preys" for me! :rolleyes:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Pulicords/TheInternet-OnceYouPostIt-1.jpg

I found this, written by HiDef, in another thread;

"Hemicop, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. i'm not sure how you do it in AZ, but where I'm from all 3 law enforcement agencies I've worked for mission statement included being part of the community, they stressed helping out when you can. If you show support towards the community they will return that support. A Police Officer's job isn't ONLY to give out TCs & arrest bad guys. You sound like cops should always be hostile to everyone they meet. You have to remember they are all (or mostly) human beings. Its to SERVE and protect.

and btw i completely agree with alpha1906's post."


I didn't realize that he has worked for 3 Police agencies. If this is not a lie, which i'm sure it is, then his responses to this thread are even more bizarre.

Wait, do I have this right? This clown claims to have worked for three different agencies, but hasn't been to the academy yet? If so, he hasn't worked in any position that qualifies him to run his yap here.

Anyone having deja vu of Wanna Be Cop? Sure as hell sounds like him.

[LAC_LE]

Anyone having deja vu of Wanna Be Cop? Sure as hell sounds like him.

LOL! Wasn't he that guy who couldn't keep from telling everyone how perfect he thought he was?

That's right, he, too, started out with one polite post, then got bitterly self-defensive the instant anyone wrote anything remotely non-positive about him.

[IE Copper]

LOL I had forgot about wannabecop. I don't think this guy is him. He hasn't talked about how good of a shooter, or how awesome his tactical skills are yet. Plus, Wannabecop would not let anything go. He had to respond to every single post that made reference to him.

I wonder if he was just a troll, posting here to get us all worked up. I sometimes look at our new guys and wonder if any of them are him. I would go back to patrol and request to train him if I found out he was at my department ;)

[pulicords]

The info he gave about SDSO and SDPD's academy date was pretty specific. I think he was legitimate, not "trolling." Either way, if he does return perhaps he'll leave his attitude behind. If he keeps it in the academy (as previously posted), he'll probably not make it through FTO.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Pulicords/beating-a-dead-horse.jpg

[Hi-Def]

First off let me apologize to Sig for his thread being hi-jacked. Now that that’s out the way. WOW I get busy & leave for a few days and some of you guys really missed me. Oooh I’m popular. Now to answer the questions:

*I think someone asked how many recruits were starting in the 80th SD regional academy. SDPD is sending 27, I heard La Mesa is sending 4 (not confirmed). But I have no idea about SDSO, El Cajon, Chula Vista, etc…

*It was assumed I was some other “wanna be cop” guy. No I promise I’m not him, I’m still fairly new here.

*First my attitude wouldn’t allow me to finish the academy, but now you’re saying I won’t get pass phase training. What next? He won’t become corporal ,sergeant, Lieutenant… Basically my answer to this is I’ll do my best to do the most I can.

*To clarify some of my work history I’m on my third LE agency. Remember when you were searching through my past post. One of the post mentioned I have a lot of LEO friends. Well those jobs were where I made them. BTW before more speculation I voluntarily left those jobs for various life circumstances, you understand. And no I was never sworn before but I worked side by side daily with these LEOs.

*I think it was Avalon who said I have a huge chip on my shoulder. If you were me you would have the same chip there to. And that’s not the first time I’ve been told that (You were actually nice the way you put it compared to people who really know me). Over the last few years some people have said that I’m cocky or I need to be taken down a peg. More than likely that WILL happen in the academy, but could you imagine if it didn’t? Oh the humanity! WORLD DOMINATION.

*Umm I have no idea how someone’s spank material is related to anything I said. I’m positive I’m not ashamed of anything I said, especially to the point of that picture. And EVERYONE knows once you put something in the intertubes it stays there forever (and is admissible in a court of law). Plus that is really just inappropriate.

*Lastly it was suggested that I don’t “encourage” the posters attacking me, don’t burn the bridges. And that is really good advice. And it was also my first instinct when I signed in today. But then I read the post and realized that with the maturity level rivaling that of middle school, that there is no amount of contrition I can show that will enough for them. But I’m going to try anyway. To anyone that I truly, deeply offended I apologize. I assure you I had no malicious intent on upsetting anyone. BTW what’s a ramrod?

Yeesh dissertation done.

[Sig4U]

First off let me apologize to Sig for his thread being hi-jacked.

No problem. Things just got out of hand really quickly. Crap happens.

[YELLOWLAB]

Hi-Def

You obviously are not taking any B.S. The thought of you on the streets anywhere, kicking a-- and taking names is intriguing. You should remember to respect a little better, and not be so thin skinned. Many of these guys have seen a crap load of lifes lessons learned the hard way.

You stated over the past few years, people have said you're cocky and need to be taken down a peg? You may think about that. This job will humble you in a heart beat. I believe you got the wrong impression from these guys and you took it too literally. They have many years of seeing the comings and goings of many men and women who think their s--t does not stink.

I would be careful how you come into this site, and learn from those in here.