They got theirs, why should you?

[TobaKnight]

RETIRE '20-&-OUT' RULE, EX-COPS SAY

By CHUCK BENNETT

Last updated: 1:44 am
March 23, 2009
Posted: 1:41 am
March 23, 2009

The long-cherished "20 and out" rule that allows cops to collect pensions in their 40s is a relic of the past that should go the way of the neighborhood call box and the six-shot service revolver, retired cops say.

Many retired officers, from detectives to career flatfoots, called Mayor Bloomberg's cost-cutting effort to make new recruits work at least 25 years and reach age 50 before being eligible for a pension a fair compromise during this time of economic crisis.

"I don't consider it unreasonable. People are dying for jobs right now," said Michael Bailey, who retired as a detective in 2007 at the age of 43.

Bailey retired exactly 11 days after completing his 20th year on the force the last few years, he said, on an elite counterterrorism team.

He augments his roughly $60,000 yearly pension with a corporate security job that provides a six-figure salary, far more than he earned during his last year as a cop.

"In the beginning it might seem generous, but that pension is locked in for life. It doesn't grow much," Bailey said. "If you go out and find a decent job that pays $50,000 you don't have to worry."

He predicted that Bloomberg's proposal would become a reality, especially since the city is projected to be on the hook for as much as $7.8 billion 11 percent of the entire projected $70 billion budget by 2013.

"If you go to most major metropolitan cities now, they've all already moved to it," he said of raising the retirement requirement beyond the current 20 years.

"I guarantee the city gets it in three or four years. They will squeeze. The unions used to be powerful; now they are nothing."

There are 10,381 retired NYPD officers between 40 and 49 now collecting pensions. The average pension is $43,000, not including a $12,000 supplement known as a "Christmas bonus" distributed every December, for regular nondisability service retirees under age 50.

Bloomberg's proposal, which is the subject of negotiations with the Municipal Labor Committee and legislators in Albany, would affect only future officers, firefighters and other workers not yet hired.

Additional reporting by Perry Chiaramonte

chuck.bennett@nypost.com

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03232009/news/regionalnews/retire_20__out_rule__ex_cops_say_160853.htm?CMP=EM C-email_edition&DATE=03232009

[Hindsight 20/20]

That, my friends, is what they call a piece of sh*t rat bastard.

[CRS1]

That, my friends, is what they call a piece of sh*t rat bastard.

I 2nd that. :mad:

[NYCTNT]

If you guys believe that he was an actual detective, you guys are totally lost in the solar system.

This is a big ol' media fabricated lie.

[BarXone]

You think he wasn't a cop? I don't understand.. Please elaborate.

Wouldn't that be.. illegal? I'm sure someone would be checking out his background if he's publicizing such information in a mainstream news outlet.

Either way, this would take years to happen.. you have to change legislature. It's not as easy as changing the annual pay. Hopefully the economy will turn around and the idea to raise retirement will be a thing of the past.

And to say that unions are "nothing" is quite comical.

- I also totally agree much of the news is BS.. they always seem to leave out one "minor" detail that changes all of the circumstances.

[NYJets44288]

The media with the help of the city government fabricates stories like this. The city government is trying to pass that 20 & out is gone, therefore they will feed the media information to gain the public's support. NYCTNT, back me up here?

[NYCTNT]

I am not part of a true union such as 32bj, local 99, iron workers, electrical workers.

I am part of an ASSOCIATION. Although we did win a very nice award during our last contract, we are still 100% at the mercy of the administrators and the city. We cannot "strike", "slow down" or anything to that effect. We are also not allowed to call in "blue" in mass numbers.. we do not have the same rights as other unions when things do not become fair for us. We must sit there and take it.

I do not complain, nobody bothers me.. I go to work, do the best job I can do and along very well with everyone. Personally, I LOVE the job.

I find it rediculous that a "detective", whom retired 11 days post his retirement date can be so hypocrytical about a 20 and out pension. "He" did probably say SOMETHING about the pension, but as usual I can see the media twisting the words that came out of "his" mouth completely around.

[richbrown123456]

Nah their def. is private security firms with security manager that make that much. Even the lower end ones have security managers making 60 to 70k Im sure his experience as a Officer is what got him their and that pay... thats of course if its all true..

[Brendon]

They should at least make it 25. There's no good reason if you're not disabled to retire at 40.

[NYCTNT]

You cant retire at 40. It would be at least 41.

No good reason?

How about you get on board, work a busy precinct with a busy sector.. picking up 15-20 jobs per day with NO TIME for meal due to being completely backlogged?

Do that for at least 5 years and tell me how you feel.

Even prior to becoming a police officer, I was always supportive of 20 and out for the hazardous duties of police officers and firefighters.

[TobaKnight]

Just got to thinking, does anyone know how old the oldest active member of the force is?

[NYJets44288]

That guy definitely has his 6-figure Security Job at BloombergTV lol

[NYCTNT]

There are a bunch of chiefs ready to retire who are 60-62 years old.

63 is cut off.

[JdotB]

I wouldn't think any of us would have anything to worry about because it will probably change in 3-4 years. If that's the case, pretty much all of us; well hopefully all of us will be on the force by then. When we go in and retirement is at 20 years, and it changes to 25 years when we're in, we'll still be able to retire at 20 years. You can't change it after you joined up.

But then again the city can just downsize/cancel every academy until then to alleviate the amount of new officers until then.

In rebuttal....what about teachers then? They work 25 years with a 3 month paid vacation every year. Where's our 3 month paid vacation every year? I wish I can spend 1/4 of my career on paid vacation.

Not talking down on teachers jobs because they are the catalyst of our future in teaching children...but just saying.

[richbrown123456]

May be true. On the other hand even though no one likes to here it or believe it. Their is a chance no one will be grandfathered into the 20 years and out.

[ten08]

That's a reprint from Forbes Magazine. Steve and his millionaire buddies who collect tens of millions every year don't want us to have our Bloated Police Pensions. Just more GOP Union Busting, helping Bloomberg get your pension.
How is $60,000 excessive in California.

[BarXone]

May be true. On the other hand even though no one likes to here it or believe it. Their is a chance no one will be grandfathered into the 20 years and out.

I'm not so sure about that.. there would be union outrage. It's a signed contract, isn't it? At least that's part of the reason certain people signed up 10, 15 years ago. It would only apply to future recruits. Anyone on currently know about this? I'm pretty sure this is the general consensus I'm getting from relatives on the job.

Also.. I hate people who say "who cares, it's only another 5 years" .. you suck and know nothing about life.

[Letmypeoplego]

Everybody makes choices, funny how I didn't hear about how good we had it when we were taking zeroes for at least 3 contracts. I chose security and knew I wasn't gonna get rich. My enormous pension will be about $46,000 when I go.You wanna change rules? Do it when I'm gone.

[richbrown123456]

Hey bar, i agree it would cause kaos and it def. isnt right. The reason i bring this up is because i have read this elsewhere that it doesnt matter, because the contract says you can retire in 20 years. It seems if this happens you still will be able to retire at 20, but their will be very steep penalty's.(I guess thats the clause in the contract) Seems this talk has been in the works for a while. Who knows if its true, cant believe everything you read.

[BarXone]

yeah.. definitely hope that was misguided info, for all of us.

I just can't imagine what would happen if/when it's passed for guys who have 19, 19 1/2 years on..

a lot can happen in 5 years man..

[PAC084]

These people are crazy. You cant work in a law enforcement setting for a long period of time. It breaks you down over time. The stress alone can kill you. This is coming from people that never "suited up" and worked a post, cell block, yard, sector, etc.

[Dinosaur32]

Until the STATE LEGISLATURE changes the provisions of the NYPD pension.....as soon as you start in the Academy you are covered by the existing pension plan. There is NO GRANDFATHERING. Nothing can be done to your pension benefits in a downward modification. They can however be improved.

[ten08]

I'm not so sure about that.. there would be union outrage. It's a signed contract, isn't it? At least that's part of the reason certain people signed up 10, 15 years ago. It would only apply to future recruits. Anyone on currently know about this? I'm pretty sure this is the general consensus I'm getting from relatives on the job.

Also.. I hate people who say "who cares, it's only another 5 years" .. you suck and know nothing about life.

Isn't that the point: They want to "renegotiate " that contract. Union Busting.

[Back to NYC]

It wasn't long ago that the PBA membership agreed to change the starting salary to $25,100, basically "sacrificing the unborn" in exchange for an increase in top pay. But in retrospect, that's nothing compared to what might happen in the next few years. People are basically selfish, and I wouldn't be shocked if we agree to a contract that creates a new retirement tier for future hires that would require 25 years of service rather than 20...so long as we received a raise or other benefit for doing so.

Think about it. You're a cop already on the job. You're guaranteed a 20-year-retirement. Nothing can affect that. The city offers you a 10% raise if you'll let them change the retirement to 25 years for future hires. Will you really say no, with your kid pestering you for new clothes for the new school year, your car needing a new transmission, and the bank calling you three times a day about your late mortgage payment? Do you care whether some future rookie works 20 years or 25 years when you've got a whole stack of your own problems to deal with?

Concepts like "doing the right thing" and "blue brotherhood" get mighty fuzzy in those kinds of situations...

[Brendon]

I plan on working a long time with the NYPD when I join up, and with a top pay of 90K before overtime, it's not as bad as it used to be.

I'm certainly not becoming a cop for the pay and pension, or I would have picked a whole 'nother career line.

[ItIsWhatItIs73]

It wasn't long ago that the PBA membership agreed to change the starting salary to $25,100, basically "sacrificing the unborn" in exchange for an increase in top pay. But in retrospect, that's nothing compared to what might happen in the next few years. People are basically selfish, and I wouldn't be shocked if we agree to a contract that creates a new retirement tier for future hires that would require 25 years of service rather than 20...so long as we received a raise or other benefit for doing so.

Think about it. You're a cop already on the job. You're guaranteed a 20-year-retirement. Nothing can affect that. The city offers you a 10% raise if you'll let them change the retirement to 25 years for future hires. Will you really say no, with your kid pestering you for new clothes for the new school year, your car needing a new transmission, and the bank calling you three times a day about your late mortgage payment? Do you care whether some future rookie works 20 years or 25 years when you've got a whole stack of your own problems to deal with?

Concepts like "doing the right thing" and "blue brotherhood" get mighty fuzzy in those kinds of situations...

as i recall that wasnt the union that agreed to the 25k it was done by the arbitrator who decided 25k was a fair wage...and i dont know about ur delegates but mine handed out letters for us to sign and send to our legislators that were written up by the pba denouncing the 25/50 plan..in my opinion the pba is basically saying hell no to changing retirement to what bloomie wants

[ItIsWhatItIs73]

It wasn't long ago that the PBA membership agreed to change the starting salary to $25,100, basically "sacrificing the unborn" in exchange for an increase in top pay. But in retrospect, that's nothing compared to what might happen in the next few years. People are basically selfish, and I wouldn't be shocked if we agree to a contract that creates a new retirement tier for future hires that would require 25 years of service rather than 20...so long as we received a raise or other benefit for doing so.

Think about it. You're a cop already on the job. You're guaranteed a 20-year-retirement. Nothing can affect that. The city offers you a 10% raise if you'll let them change the retirement to 25 years for future hires. Will you really say no, with your kid pestering you for new clothes for the new school year, your car needing a new transmission, and the bank calling you three times a day about your late mortgage payment? Do you care whether some future rookie works 20 years or 25 years when you've got a whole stack of your own problems to deal with?

Concepts like "doing the right thing" and "blue brotherhood" get mighty fuzzy in those kinds of situations...

as i recall that wasnt the union that agreed to the 25k it was done by the arbitrator who decided 25k was a fair wage...and i dont know about ur delegates but mine handed out letters for us to sign and send to our legislators that were written up by the pba denouncing the 25/50 plan..in my opinion the pba is basically saying hell no to changing retirement to what bloomie wants

[Back to NYC]

I think you may be right about the arbitrator making that decision, actually. I still stand by the doomsday scenario in my previous post, though. ;)

My delegates haven't passed around any letters like that yet. They definitely should, though.

[Dinosaur32]

Pension changes are not a contractual issue. They must be made by the legislature. The most the PBA could do is give its support for any legislation offered by the mayor. How much do you think that support is really worth to Bloomberg? Not 10%, that's for sure.

[UpstateNYPD]

The city, the PBA, and the arbitor all agreed to lower the starting pay in 2005:
http://www.thechief-leader.com/news/2008/0307/news/003.html