Should The Nypd Allow Auxiliary Police To Be Promoted To Full Time Without Credits?

[APONY]

I just wanted to get input from all of you on the opportunity for auxiliary police to be promoted to full-time NYPD without college credits and what do you think would be a fair way to do it?

[BarXone]

No. I think doing this would encourage people to NOT go to College. That sends the wrong message.


One scenario:

Kids coming out of high school would say, "I'm finished with school. I'll just get a part-time job until I'm 21 and then go NYPD." Then when 21 comes along and they DON'T get in, what are they to do?

I won't be surprised to see many on here agree college shouldn't be necessary. So many think college students are worthless. I'm not one of them.

editt

[Brendon]

No. I think a College education is very important to have when you become a Sworn Officer.

[NYCAPO]

Would I like to see it happen? Yes
Will it ever happen under Kelly? No

What I would like to see is the city offer the promotional exam to the position of Police Officer to Auxiliary Officers as long as they have 2 years of service in the program with each year meeting or exceeding the minimum hours required yearly. However, if they pass the test, they would still need to meet the requirements to be appointed to the position of Police Officer. They already give the exam to School Safety Agents and Traffic Enforcement Agents, and I would love to see them also offer the exam to Auxiliary Officers.

[ten08]

A little bit of experience is worth a whole lot of theory. I would give them preference with 5 years experience

[BigFiveO]

I just wanted to get input from all of you on the opportunity for auxiliary police to be promoted to full-time NYPD without college credits and what do you think would be a fair way to do it?

Absolutely not.

[Brendon]

Would I like to see it happen? Yes
Will it ever happen under Kelly? No

What I would like to see is the city offer the promotional exam to the position of Police Officer to Auxiliary Officers as long as they have 2 years of service in the program with each year meeting or exceeding the minimum hours required yearly. However, if they pass the test, they would still need to meet the requirements to be appointed to the position of Police Officer. They already give the exam to School Safety Agents and Traffic Enforcement Agents, and I would love to see them also offer the exam to Auxiliary Officers.

That's a better idea.

[NYJets44288]

NYCAPO right on the money.

[BarXone]

Would I like to see it happen? Yes
Will it ever happen under Kelly? No

What I would like to see is the city offer the promotional exam to the position of Police Officer to Auxiliary Officers as long as they have 2 years of service in the program with each year meeting or exceeding the minimum hours required yearly. However, if they pass the test, they would still need to meet the requirements to be appointed to the position of Police Officer. They already give the exam to School Safety Agents and Traffic Enforcement Agents, and I would love to see them also offer the exam to Auxiliary Officers.

I can agree with this to an extent.. maybe you should be the Auxiliary spokesman ;)

This may receive criticism (though I don't necessarily agree) similar to that of the EMT taking the "backdoor" road for promotion to FDNY. Man, people get really angry about that..

[NYCTNT]

If there was some monetary compensation to AUX officers, then YES. Monetary as in getting paid a minimum wage and offering basic part time benefits to AUX for their service. Anybody can just volunteer(minus felons).

I believe AUX officers should obtain better hiring standards first, recieve a enforcement status second and then attempt to expand the overall program. If an aux officer gets paid the minimum wage and comes into basically "volunteer", does not have any bargaining rights or pay increase, then I would trust them more with a summons book as they can be TERMINATED if unfit(which of course would on official record and haunt them for life).

To answer your original question. NO they should not be promoted to PO. They are not a paid member of the NYPD and should not recieve the same rights as PAID members. The perk of a paid member to be promoted to PO is thrown out the window.

[NYCAPO]

I can agree with this to an extent.. maybe you should be the Auxiliary spokesman ;)

LMAO I'd take the job.:D

[AuxNY]

Would I like to see it happen? Yes
Will it ever happen under Kelly? No

What I would like to see is the city offer the promotional exam to the position of Police Officer to Auxiliary Officers as long as they have 2 years of service in the program with each year meeting or exceeding the minimum hours required yearly. However, if they pass the test, they would still need to meet the requirements to be appointed to the position of Police Officer. They already give the exam to School Safety Agents and Traffic Enforcement Agents, and I would love to see them also offer the exam to Auxiliary Officers.

I wouldn't want to see it happen unless the standards to become an aux are tightened. It seems that most units have at least 1 EDP whom everyone else tries to hide from the public with varying degrees of success.

I can also think of one unit that is rumored to fudge their hours to make their unit look better. There would need to be a greater oversight of unit hour accounting if they were to do that.

Also, School Safty and Traffic Enforcement need to have the 60 credits in order to join NYPD. It doesn't make sense to lower the standards just for aux. The above said, aux should get some sort of preference for being aux, maybe 5 extra points on their exams or something.

[NYCAPO]

Also, School Safty and Traffic Enforcement need to have the 60 credits in order to join NYPD.

If they offered the promotional exam to Auxiliary officers, Aux officers would also either need to have 60 college credits or 2 years of service in the armed forces. I'm not saying reduce the requirements only for Aux officers. What I am saying is let Auxiliary officers, who have atleast 2 years of service in the program with each year meeting or exceeding the minimum hours required yearly, take the promotional exam. If they pass the exam, they would need to meet the requirements for promotion to the position(college credits or 2 years service in the armed forces, 21 to 35 years old, background checks, etc).

[Back to NYC]

A little bit of experience is worth a whole lot of theory. I would give them preference with 5 years experience

If you've got an Auxiliary PO and a sworn PO on the scene, who's in charge? The sworn PO. If you've got an Auxiliary Chief and a sworn PO on the scene, who's in charge? The sworn PO.

There's a reason for that.

[PAC084]

There definitely needs to be a more stringent entrance requirement to enter the aux police. There should be a JST similiar to school safety. There needs to be special patrolman status issued along with levels. Examples are ADO's get issed an ID card but no shield. Level II allows you to enforce non moving violations and you are issued OC, ASP but no firearm. Level I allows you to enforce moving violations and you can patrol alone since you would be issued a firearm. This level would be for sworn peace officers that join the program and those level IIs that meet a certain amount of hours.There would be more training as well. That way auxiliary can truly help out in the field and keep the regular officers on the street. Just a thought.

[TobaKnight]

Your level I APO would eventually be used by the bean counters as a way to alleviate PO positions by having underpaid, or volunteer, 'officers' doing the work of Sworn PO's. In the end hurting everyone involved.

[PAC084]

No not at all remember you are still a part time, volunteer officer. All full time paid employees are taken care of FIRST. You are only a supplement to the dept. Im sure the PBA has it in their contract that all UMOS are taken care of first and foremost. Second no auxiliary officer would EVER want to be a scab. This plan would be no different than what is being done now with the exception of peace officer status being issued to A/POs. It's a win/win for everybody. POs get help on the street in especially high crime areas and A/POs get more experience in which they can use to become a PO or any other form of law enforcement.

[NYPO]

The Auxiliary Police has its purpose but lets face it, They are basically a neighborhood watch program that is allowed to wear the NYPD uniform. The unit has absolutely no purpose in my opinion. It is not the fault of the Aux PO's though its the fault of the actual program. I'm sure every command is different but in my command our Auxiliary doesn't do a thing and it seems like thats how it is a lot of places. They are grouped up in to 2 or 3 guys who just walk around and thats it. I give much of them credit for volunteering but I think its more of a liability than anything.

[Brendon]

There are plenty of other Police Departments that arm their Auxiliary Officers and give them Sworn Officer Status while on the job. Suffolk County doesn't, but even the Suffolk County APO's can opt to carry firearms.

[PAC084]

This is NYC,the toughest place to get a firearm in the first place. Come on if sworn peace officers in nyc are left unarmed, why would they give a volunteer officer a firearm? It's a shame

[Back to NYC]

Second no auxiliary officer would EVER want to be a scab.

They might not want to be scabs, but in the eyes of the city it wouldn't matter what they want. Auxies would be used as scabs if they were given peace officer status and/or firearms and allowed to perform patrol in a more comprehensive way than they do now. Why would the department put a PO making close to six figures a year out there if they can put out an Auxie who makes nothing?

This kind of thing is already happening with the changing of paint schemes on the Auxiliary, School Safety, and Traffic cars. The department is painting them white and making them look just like our RMPs, with just a few little decals to differentiate them from us. Despite the well-known fact that criminals don't bother to look for the little "AUXILIARY" decal before letting a few rounds fly, the department does this. It's all smoke and mirrors designed to give the illusion of more cops out on the street, and by extension reduce the need for expensive, benefits- and pension-heavy police officers. For what you pay a rookie cop, you can have two School Safety or Traffic Agents...and they don't take as long or cost as much to train and equip. Considering Auxies don't cost the city even as much as School Safety and Traffic Agents...well, you get the picture.

[FordRanger]

I just wanted to get input from all of you on the opportunity for auxiliary police to be promoted to full-time NYPD without college credits and what do you think would be a fair way to do it?

NO..... My "JOB" is so rediculously easy to get on as it is..... It does not need to be made even easier...... You want the job????... Take some college courses instead of spending hours and hours on here ....

BTW this post is not aimed directly and personally at the initial poster... It is aimed at the concept put forth.

[FordRanger]

There are plenty of other Police Departments that arm their Auxiliary Officers and give them Sworn Officer Status while on the job. Suffolk County doesn't, but even the Suffolk County APO's can opt to carry firearms.

There are very few who have firearms....

Police officers have the authority to possess and carry firearms.... Everyone else has permission via a PERMIT... This IS a very important distinction as put forth in the NYS law....

On a side note.... what do you think the regular police think of the aux. who has a firearm.... I'll give you a heads up ... nothing positive... His overzealous buff ness would make me not want him at ANY of my jobs.

[Marxdaman29]

No.... Not At All!!!!

[TobaKnight]

What would be the benefit AUX Police being able to take the Promotional exam after 2 years service? Why not just take the regular exam from the very beginning?

[NYCTNT]

There are very few who have firearms....

Police officers have the authority to possess and carry firearms.... Everyone else has permission via a PERMIT... This IS a very important distinction as put forth in the NYS law....

On a side note.... what do you think the regular police think of the aux. who has a firearm.... I'll give you a heads up ... nothing positive... His overzealous buff ness would make me not want him at ANY of my jobs.


Oh how wrong you are.

Many Peace Officer agencies let their officers carry whatever they want on their shield, depending on CPL line they have. Certain agencies need permits, but it doesnt matter as they get their permits by the time they finish training. Its not big deal, its just a matter of legislature changing their line in the CPL to eliminating the permit requirment. Overall some peace officer agencies are permitted to carry firearms per the CPL but their agency declines to arm their officers.

The same can go for Police officer agencies.. they are allowed to carry firearms per the CPL but their agency also declines to arm them as well.

[NYCTNT]

Umm.. NOOOOOOO.

The discussion is SHOULD THERE be an exam put in place for promotion.

[TobaKnight]

my question was what if you have all the 60 credits and met all the requirements. is there an exam for the APO to get promoted to PO instead of taking the regular civilian PO exam.

Again... No there is not. As NYTNT stated, the question being discussed is should there be one.

My questions is... If A/PO's were allowed to take the promotional exam after 2 years, what benefit would that offer them, as opposed to having just taken the regular exam when they first joined?

[FordRanger]

Oh how wrong you are.

Many Peace Officer agencies let their officers carry whatever they want on their shield, depending on CPL line they have. Certain agencies need permits, but it doesnt matter as they get their permits by the time they finish training. Its not big deal, its just a matter of legislature changing their line in the CPL to eliminating the permit requirment. Overall some peace officer agencies are permitted to carry firearms per the CPL but their agency declines to arm their officers.

The same can go for Police officer agencies.. they are allowed to carry firearms per the CPL but their agency also declines to arm them as well.

Thanks for the correction....

But do me a favor... go back and reread...

[NYCTNT]

Ok.. what is there to re-read.

You said only Police Officers have authority to carry firearms and everyone else requires a permit.

For that reason you are wrong.

Not EVERYONE else requires a permit.

That is where the wrongness(word?) occurs.

I have this problem at work with new rookies thinking they caught a big gun collar or doubted the authority of a peace or even a police officer from carrying a firearm. All I want to do is educate the masses who think everyone else other than police officers cannot carry any firearms without some sort of proof/permit, which is not the case.

[NYSJAILER2008]

There are very few who have firearms....

Police officers have the authority to possess and carry firearms.... Everyone else has permission via a PERMIT... This IS a very important distinction as put forth in the NYS law....
On a side note.... what do you think the regular police think of the aux. who has a firearm.... I'll give you a heads up ... nothing positive... His overzealous buff ness would make me not want him at ANY of my jobs.
So what am I chop liver???LOL!!!! This is the funniest thing I heard from another LEO in a while. I don't posses a stinking pistol permit. Mr. FordRanger do you think you would have a gun collar in your infinate Police duties if you came arcoss me CCW'ing my off-duty weapon in NYS??? I have a Shield and ID, but I am not a Police Officer. Come on arrest me just try it!!!!

[NYCAPO]

On a side note.... what do you think the regular police think of the aux. who has a firearm.... I'll give you a heads up ... nothing positive... His overzealous buff ness would make me not want him at ANY of my jobs.

I have Suffolk County Aux Officer friends, and a few of them are armed, and they tell me they are treated very well and aren't looked down upon b/c they carry. Actually, some of the cops actually support them being armed b/c they can defend themselves. And to say a Aux officer has "buff ness" because he can carry a firearm is just ridiculous. Look at other parts of the country where volunteer officers are treated exactly the same by paid officers and they are armed. Just 2 examples: LAPD Reserves and LASD Reserves.

[APONY]

Well, to be frank, I think I choose experience and street smarts before college. Just because someone has 60 credits in basket weaving does not make them a better candidate for POLICE OFFICER than an Auxiliary Police Officer with five years experience in street smarts.

First, many N.Y.P.D POLICE OFFICERS that I know that were once auxiliaries and are now full-time Police Officers say that being an Auxiliary Police Officer helped them a lot with their experience and enabled them to be a step ahead of the rest who were never AUXILIARY POLICE.

Second, their is many people who have college with no experience in the real world and became POLICE OFFICERS and over stepped their boundaries as far as not being able to handle the pressure of being on the streets and using their weapons as a first line of defense instead of it being their last due to their lack of experience walking many of the streets auxiliary police officers have to walk without a gun but only armed with a heart and wits. I think if you really want to be a cop you should first volunteer. Its a great way to learn humbleness and also obtain courage that does not come from a gun or college degree.

[THE FACTS NYC]

I Agree ! :)

[bluelieu]

Would I like to see it happen? Yes
Will it ever happen under Kelly? No

What I would like to see is the city offer the promotional exam to the position of Police Officer to Auxiliary Officers as long as they have 2 years of service in the program with each year meeting or exceeding the minimum hours required yearly. However, if they pass the test, they would still need to meet the requirements to be appointed to the position of Police Officer. They already give the exam to School Safety Agents and Traffic Enforcement Agents, and I would love to see them also offer the exam to Auxiliary Officers.

You can't promote someone who's not an employee...

My advice, go to community college (or better yet contact Empire State College and get life experience credited towards college)...You need 64 credits to make Sergeant anyway.

[bluelieu]

Second, their is many people who have college with no experience in the real world and became POLICE OFFICERS and over stepped their boundaries as far as not being able to handle the pressure of being on the streets and using their weapons as a first line of defense instead of it being their last due to their lack of experience walking many of the streets auxiliary police officers have to walk without a gun but only armed with a heart and wits.

APONY: Do yourself a favor, go back to school...

[THE FACTS NYC]

You can't promote someone who's not an employee...

My advice, go to community college (or better yet contact Empire State College and get life experience credited towards college)...You need 64 credits to make Sergeant anyway.

Aux Police while on duty are considered employees if they get injured on the job they receive workers comp from the city (n.y.c administrative code section 14-147 of chapter 1of title 14) As for school safety and traffic they still need the 60 credits they just take the time they work with the agency over to the pd that goes for any regular employee of the city or state . Being that aux police are not paid officers and some may not be able to pay for school should the city help theme become full time officers ? yes

[bluelieu]

Facts: Empire State will grant some credits, the rest you have to get on your own...If you want assistance while attending, join the Cadet Corps. For purposes of promotion to PO, APOs will never get a separate exam.

[THE FACTS NYC]

never say never ! They said tbta wouldn't get guns. They did ,They said housing and transit police would not merge with nypd . They did . Things change AS FAR AS MY SELF I NEVER SAID I PERSONALLY NEED ASSISTANCE . But thanks anyway.

[bluelieu]

OK, Facts, then I'll say this...your window of opportunity is shrinking everyday that you sit and do nothing. Go to college and get your credits, take the citywide exams when offered, take the walk-in exams at DCAS...get on the job with the 60 credits (you need 64 for Sgt., anyway). I had no money when I went to college, but I worked my way through before being hired (and when I was hired nearly 30 years ago all you needed was a HS diploma). Getting hired today is also much easier than when I was a young man. We had lists that were 20,000 to 30,000. They disqualified you at the drop of a hat. Go to school, take multiple exams...the clock is ticking.

[GhostJ]

never say never ! They said tbta wouldn't get guns. They did ,They said housing and transit police would not merge with nypd . They did . Things change AS FAR AS MY SELF I NEVER SAID I PERSONALLY NEED ASSISTANCE . But thanks anyway.

Yea, you might be right, there will be change for the auxiliary program, auxiliary officers might actually get some benefit one day, but I don't think we will see that for at least a few years, Bluelieu is right if you keep waiting for NYPD to give auxiliary officers any benefit, you will be too old to be a police officer. Take Bluelieu's advice get 60 college credits, it's not that hard, and if you go to a CUNY community college, it won't cost that much, and it will be easier. As for other auxiliaries who wants an easy way out by join the military; there's no easy way out, don't join the military just so you don't have to go to college, you will hate your life if you don't really want to serve in the military. And I doubt for a person who think get 60 college credits from a community college is too hard can finish the academy anyway.

[THE FACTS NYC]

No need to worry I'm on the top of my game . I pass with a 98 , For some reason you keep assuming that I'm a person that needs help or not going to school. All I'M saying is that if a person only needed a HS diploma, NYPD would have more people trying to get on. Do you think that a person now with college is or would make a better cop then those that came on with HS diploma. All I'm saying is that some aux. may not be able to go to school. They may have taken and passed the city exams and may be of age but can't go to collage for some reason . They would make good cops. I think the city is losing out on good men and woman that are volunteering there time and life to make a difference. That's all

Thanks anyway

[NYCTNT]

For some reason?

You know, if you cannot be physically at a school there is a new thing out that is called on-line college. CUNY even offers it as well.

Thats no excuse unless you are completely illiterate and cannot speak a lick of english language. Then it is understandable that college would be a difficult task to take on as an individual, although not impossible.

The NYC AUX program will get nothing, maybe just maybe pepper spray and thats a big maybe. You can completely forget about a promotional exam or anything happening for a voluntary member that is not getting paid by the department/city.

Also, yes, you guys are covered under workers compensation.. but umm.. do you know what that means?. All it means is that your workers comp gets forwarded to your EMPLOYER. Which will NOT be the NYPD because you are NOT getting paid. If you have NO JOB you get NO workers comp. This is put in place so if you get hurt during your volunteering duties, your employer cannot kick you to the curb and not pay you. So in summary, you get no money as an aux and that equals to no money from city in workers compensation.

If you have such a gripe on how the city runs things and how the department is not allowing you to become a PO, QUIT the AUX PROGRAM!. Its the easiest thing to do!. I tell cops in my command the same thing.. if your so miserable and always complain, simply quit. All of your complaining will go away.

[THE FACTS NYC]

nyctnt: Lighten up it's not that serious it's called a forum people come here to talk and give opinions. I never said I have a gripe on how the city runs things it's called a opinion . PEOPLE HAVE THEM stop being so confrontational it's called people skills.Like I said these guys go on patrol to help the city and there community.Every one of theme has their own reasons why they do it . Do I think that the city should look out for them like other towns and city's ? YES



Thanks anyway

[PAC084]

The purpose of NYPD even instituting college credits in the first place was because officers were prone to a lack of people skills which lead to confrontations which lead to liability for the city. Officers were quick to pull a weapon on a subject without assesing the situation(superioity complex). So college was phased in to reduce or eliminate that possibility. Now from my experience in LE, college does not make you a better officer. I've worked with some that you 'll wonder how did they get past the psych? I feel as far as the program goes, there should be a promo exam like the other divisions with the exception of the a/po needs 3-5yrs of ABOVE average service. It shouldn't be easy for the a/po to get on the job like it isnt for the other divisions. This will discourage those from using the program as an out. If the a/po wants to get on the job, work has to be put in as an a/po. The 3-5yrs will be credited like military service(2yrs) and your years of aux service will count on the back end of your NYPD career. This is my opinion.

[bluelieu]

It'll never happen. DCAS gives all promotional exams and in order to qualify (in their eyes) you MUST be in an employed title. End of story.