Campus cops

[rookie2006]

:confused:Does everyone have problems within their department as far as policing your campus? What problems do you run into? I deal with a lot of patients who want to leave against medical advice(AMA) and I find it hard to get these patients to understand they can not leave the hospital according to there Dr.'s orders. My only concern is that a patient who is of sound mind and body is able to comprehend there illness still wants to leave after a Dr. says they can’t. I can’t find a penal charge that says you have to stay. I find other charges of course if they are mentally ill (APPOW), or intoxicated (PI), but no charge for someone who just wants to leave regardless of what the Dr. says. What problems or issues do you run in to?:confused:

[ateamer]

Let them do what they want. People have the right to refuse medical care.

[AzPilot]

The reason you're not finding the statute is that it doesn't exist.

You cannot hold someone who's voluntarily at a hospital (and if they're conscious, and not in-custody, they're pretty much there voluntarily) against their will. Hospitals have the patients sign AMA forms primarily for liability purposes, as they want to be covered if the patient takes a step outside and keels over.

However, if a patient does not want to incur the cost of medical treatment...or its against their religious beliefs...or whatever else...we cannot make them take treatment against their will (again, unless in-custody, or there involuntarily for mental health, etc).

[wirefire2]

:confused:Does everyone have problems within their department as far as policing your campus? What problems do you run into? I deal with a lot of patients who want to leave against medical advice(AMA) and I find it hard to get these patients to understand they can not leave the hospital according to there Dr.'s orders. My only concern is that a patient who is of sound mind and body is able to comprehend there illness still wants to leave after a Dr. says they can’t. I can’t find a penal charge that says you have to stay. I find other charges of course if they are mentally ill (APPOW), or intoxicated (PI), but no charge for someone who just wants to leave regardless of what the Dr. says. What problems or issues do you run in to?:confused:

Whoa whoa whoa back the trolley up. If a patient is leaving AMA you CANNOT stop them. Unless they are on a mental health hold by law enforcement or a doctor.

AMA is just that and no one has the authority to make someone stay in a hospital unless its clear they cannot take care of themselves. (back to a mental health issue).

If they leave AMA it just relieves the hospital of damages or anything that happens to the patient because they refused care.

And to be honest when I was a hospital security officer the people that wanted to go AMA...good riddance they were usually the ones that caused trouble and if they want to leave let them, you have better things to do than to coddle some moron back into the ER.

[S.O.444]

There is nothing on the law books in Texas that says that a patient has to do what the doctor says. I come into contact with people all the time that leave AMA, just to call for medics to cart them back up to the hospital hours later.

I had a local medic crew call me out to the scene of one of their calls recently, telling me that they wanted to file on the drunk transient for 911 Abuse. Apparently he called them for the 7-8th time in the last week (after leaving the hospital several times AMA), claiming medical problems, and one of the medics had enough and called for our assistance so they could file on him. The problem is that 1) there is no law against calling for medics if there is a medical emergency, 2) I'm not a doctor or a trained medical professional, so I'm not qualified to say that the patient is lying to medics or me about his condition, and 3) there is no law on the books that prevents patients from leaving against a doctor's "orders."

If he wants to get a free ride to the hospital to hang out for a little while, just to leave, drink some more booze, call medics again a few hours later because of "chest pain," then there is nothing that we can do.

It sucks because we know that they're playing the system, but there isn't a whole lot that we can do, other than try to scare him into stop calling for what we all know are bogus med calls by telling him we are going to take him to jail for 911 abuse.

There is no way in hell that I'm going to tell medics to clear the scene after they make the decision to take him for evaluation so that I can take him to jail. I don't want someone to die in my custody and have to live with the fact that I made a stupid decision that caused someone their life, I failed to allow medical professionals to evaluate a patient in need of medical attention, and the legal/civil repercussions that are soon to follow.

Best bet is to bite the bullet and deal with it. It sucks, but that's how things go sometimes.

[catch um and ba]

If they want to leave AMA, then let them. Try and force them to recieve care without them having severe mental health issues, then you are looking at one hell of a law suit.

[FiremanMike]

:confused:Does everyone have problems within their department as far as policing your campus? What problems do you run into? I deal with a lot of patients who want to leave against medical advice(AMA) and I find it hard to get these patients to understand they can not leave the hospital according to there Dr.'s orders. My only concern is that a patient who is of sound mind and body is able to comprehend there illness still wants to leave after a Dr. says they can’t. I can’t find a penal charge that says you have to stay. I find other charges of course if they are mentally ill (APPOW), or intoxicated (PI), but no charge for someone who just wants to leave regardless of what the Dr. says. What problems or issues do you run in to?:confused:

If they aren't mentally ill, suicidal, or drunk, who really cares. Perhaps I'm just jaded after seeing 15,000 or so patients, but if they want to sign out AMA, that's just fine with me.

You can't control stupidity, and you shouldn't let it wear you down.

[FiremanMike]

If he wants to get a free ride to the hospital to hang out for a little while, just to leave, drink some more booze, call medics again a few hours later because of "chest pain," then there is nothing that we can do.

It sucks because we know that they're playing the system, but there isn't a whole lot that we can do, other than try to scare him into stop calling for what we all know are bogus med calls by telling him we are going to take him to jail for 911 abuse.



You can get people for 911 abuse for that, it just takes awhile, a good amount of documentation, and a lot of cooperation between the ER docs, the EMS, and the PD. I've seen it done a few times, not as many as I would like, but a few times.

911 abuse is why I'm getting out of "EMS".

[ArkansasFan24]

I was all for AMA when I was working as a medic. Made my job a lot easier.

[PhilipCal]

Unless a patient is actually under arrest, or on a court ordered hold for evaluation, he's free to leave a medical facility, or to refuse treatment. It's probably a pretty stupid move, potentially life threatening, but completely legal.

[rookie2006]

The problem we have at the hospital from time to time is the nursing staff do not understand that just because a patient wants to leave AMA we can't arrest them on the bases of that alone.

It does suck trying to talk the drunk or junkie in to styaing so I don't have to take him/her to jail . Every now and again we get patients that are sober and clear headed but the Dr. wants them to stay and we do the same dance all over again.

Thanks for all the comments on this topic.

[JSD73]

When I worked for a University PD we had no problem with patient's leaving AMA, it was when doctors wanted them to stay and signed orders that they were not allowed to leave is when we had to make sure they didn't. No, it's not in the penal code, but it's probably in your policy somewhere as it was with ours.

[gloc_copper]

The problem we have at the hospital from time to time is the nursing staff do not understand that just because a patient wants to leave AMA we can't arrest them on the bases of that alone.

It does suck trying to talk the drunk or junkie in to styaing so I don't have to take him/her to jail . Every now and again we get patients that are sober and clear headed but the Dr. wants them to stay and we do the same dance all over again.

Thanks for all the comments on this topic.

I would talk to your hospitals Chief of security and see if he can have a sit down with the ER docs or the MD chief of staff and address these issues, so that everyone is on the same page as far as what can and cannot be done to try to avoid this in the future. Sometimes thats all it takes. I apologize in advance if you are hospital police rather than security, Im not sure which you are. best of luck.

[Dracop]

Thankfully most of the campuses and hospitals up here have their own police force...The only place we automatically respond to his the mental hospital, it seems that one of the patients took the wait squad for a joyride in the parking lot because their police were inside watching the EMT's back...

[just joe]

That's why it's called, "Against Medical Advice." It's not against the law, it's just generally not a smart thing to do. If someone is making a stink, I would think your hospital legal staff could set them straight pretty quick about the liability issues of forcing someone to stay when they want to leave.