Promise Keepers

[txinvestigator1]

Did anyone go yet this year? Thoughts, reactions?

[rugbyman]

Hi tx, PK is on today in Christchurch NZ, only 2 from our church are going.
There are a couple of cops that are speakers. PK gets a bit of bad publicity here from the new age set.
Hopefully we will get a bigger group together next year :p

[Jim Burnes]

Rugbyman,

Those new age characters seem to travel a circuit between your land and America. We are infested with those guys who actually pretend to be American Indian holy men and get money from fools who want to try out varius religions. Just about 3 people have died this year because of the new age movement.

Jim Burnes

[rugbyman]

JB, I can well imagine.

[rugbyman]

JB, in Nelson (top of the South Island) you can buy Teepee's and do courses in native American Indian drumming etc.
You can also do a sweat lodge session for purity.
I'm not sure if the Indian elders would be approving...

[EMTJim]

PK is here near the end of September. We've got about 12 guys from our church going so far.

PK is having web casts of some of the events. Check out their web site for info.

Jim

[msdobson]

Okay, can one of you guys explain exactly what "promise keepers" are? I've heard the term...no idea of the concept.

Mike

[Jim Burnes]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rugbyman:
<strong>JB, in Nelson (top of the South Island) you can buy Teepee's and do courses in native American Indian drumming etc.
You can also do a sweat lodge session for purity.
I'm not sure if the Indian elders would be approving...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rugbyman,

You could bust those clowns for fraud. They charge big money for 'drumming' (standing naked, howling at the moon LOL) like Native Americans :rolleyes: But the jokers don't point out to the suckers that there are over 569 separate nations in America (and more in Canada and Mexico). Most don't use a tipi, few use the sweat lodge, and their beliefs and religions were specific only to the tribe.

And the real kick in the head for all those who are paying sometimes $300.00 to enter a sweat lodge.....no body charges anything to take part in a ceremony. Why would they?

In a forest just above Sacramento, CA this year, two new-age characters died inside what they thought was a sweat lodge ceremony, because they were inside an air-tight space, overheated with some kind of unkown herbs for over an hour and a half! When it came time for the new-age people who ran the sweat to answer why and how, they ran off. So much for new-age BS. The same kind of twisted actions and thinking is going on in NZ.

I believe also that a ceremony known as the Sundance will be held there in NZ by the new age folks. If that is true, if they are not stopped it could wind up killing some of the people who try to undertake the ceremony.

They take money under false pretenses and place the unaware under grave danger for a profit.

Jim Burnes

[txinvestigator1]

Promise Keepers is a men's group of Christian Men, or men just wanting to lead better, more moral lives of integrety.

It provides men with resources on our responsibilities towards our wives, children and community.

They have huge rallys across the country every year. I just attended the one in Dallas and there were 15,000 men in attendance.

There are 7 Promises of a Promise Keeper:

1. A Promise Keeper is committed to honoring Jesus Christ through worship, prayer
and obedience to God's Word in the power of the Holy Spirit.

2. A Promise Keeper is committed to pursuing vital relationships with a few other men,
understanding that he needs brothers to help him keep his promises.

3. A Promise Keeper is committed to practicing spiritual, moral, ethical, and sexual
purity.

4. A Promise Keeper is committed to building strong marriages and families through
love, protection and biblical values.

5. A Promise Keeper is committed to supporting the mission of his church by honoring
and praying for his pastor, and by actively giving his time and resources.

6. A Promise Keeper is committed to reaching beyond any racial and denominational
barriers to demonstrate the power of biblical unity.

7. A Promise Keeper is committed to influencing his world, being obedient to the Great
Commandment (see Mark 12:30-31) and the Great Commission (see Matthew
28:19-20 ).

Go <a href="http://www.promisekeepers.org/tnet/webcast/webcast.htm#" target="_blank">HERE</a> to see some video of a recent rally.

[jellybean40]

Your posts will prompt me to learn more about PK. All i have ever heard is bad stuff about it.

ie. how it pushes male dominance/female submission in marriages.

[txinvestigator1]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ie. how it pushes male dominance/female submission in marriages </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is so far from the truth it is funny, I spit coffee when I read it.

Here are some things I heard at the PK rally

Regarding wives; Ephesians says,
Love your wife as Jesus loved the church
Sanctify her or make her holy
present her as a radiant church, without stain or blemish, but holy and blameless
Love our wives as our own bodies

Doesn't sound like dominance and submission to me, but rather our duty to uplift our wives and treat them with respect and kindness, especially in the presence of others.

There are also 5 things a Christian man should never stop doing.

1. Never stop courting your wife.
2. Never stop complimenting your wife.
3. Never stop caring and professing your love.
4. Never stop communicating and dialoging.
5. Never stop praying with her and for her.

I'll tell you, many men were moved to tears as we heard this and we realized how poorly we had been treating our wives. Not really in a mean way, just not considering them. My new goal is not to be concerned at all if she is doing anything that I consider "her" part of the marriage, but I pray that I do ALL that is my part. And I focus on how I treat her as "God loved the church", rather than worry if she is treating me the way I believe I "Should" be treated.

I also asked my wife upon return: "Is my behavior consistent with someone who is a vessel of righteousness and justice for Christ's kingdom?

Boy was I worried about the answer I would get.

I urge you to check them out. I came home a new man.

<small>[ 08-24-2002, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: txinvestigator1 ]</small>

[JRT6]

We all do what we can.

I "promise" to hold midnight mass for wayword women. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[Snoopy1]

I have known several who attend the Promise Keepers gatherings. Their wives did not feel dominated but instead felt the group was a great influence on their husbands. They seemed to look forward to the next session almost as much as the men did.

[EMTJim]

Hey Snoopy,

I see that you are in LA. PK is coming here on September 27 and 28 if you want to check it out. It's at The Forum.

All the best,

Jim

[jellybean40]

i checked them out. found alot on-line to read...still reading lol

[Watchman]

Ditto what txinvestigator1 said...

I went to a PK rally in Memphis a few years ago.

There were over 55,000 men in attendance.

There were 55,000 men singing hymns and it was beutiful.The sound of a 55,000 man chorus was the most awesome thing that I had ever heard.
I really enjoyed it.

Jellybean said that she had heard :
ie. how it pushes male dominance/female submission in marriages.

I've heard that. From people that have never been to a PK rally.

From what I saw, the women I know would be proud to have thier husband attend. If anything ,it stresses how to be a servant to your wife, a partner,a best friend, a companion faithful to the end.

I can see how some "women" might be offended by that.

I did notice some of these same woman protesters passing out literature talkng abouthow "terrible" the PK rally was for women. I actually read it before and after I attended. It made me laugh.It was so far off base it was ridiculous. Of course these women were upset that it was a "man's rally" and women werent invited.

Personally, I think that this country would be a better place to live if all married men attended at least one session.

My vote is FOR the Promise Keepers...

<small>[ 08-26-2002, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Watchman ]</small>

[InSane1]

Hey JellyB- I have known about promise keepers for years. Its a good thing. At least from my POV

[jellybean40]

Insane...check your PM

[txinvestigator1]

I was so moved when 15,000 of us sang "How great thou art" without the band, just us.

BTW...Todd Beemer (sp?) was a Promise Keeper. He prayed with a phone operator before leading other men to storm the evil in that cockpit on Sept. 11, 2001.

[BrickCop]

From what little I know, I think PK is great. :)

I'm guessing the kneejerk Liberal criticism and condemnation is based on the huge crowds of attendees being:

-Male
-(Mostly) White
-Religious

Now if it were a cross-dressing athiests movement that would be "ok". :rolleyes:

<small>[ 08-26-2002, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: BRICKCOP ]</small>

[555]

History gives reason to be suspicious of large groups of white males.

[Bill R]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 555:
<strong>History gives reason to be suspicious of large groups of white males.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What's that got to do with Promise Keepers?

[555]

That was in response to BRICKCOP's statement.

[BrickCop]

555,

How would you react to such statements as:

History gives us reason to be suspicious of Middle Eastern men...

or

History (crime stats) gives us reason to be suspicious of groups of black males...

Come right out and give a specific example, please don't lump all us "white males" in one group. It sounds like racial profiling to me.

<small>[ 08-26-2002, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: BRICKCOP ]</small>

[555]

Obviously all white males who gather in groups don't have malicious intentions. Whether it’s fair or not it is something lots of people have a visceral reaction to. As far as Middle Eastern men and black men, people definitely have visceral reactions to them too. White men are by NO means the only ones people become suspicious of.

[txinvestigator1]

555,

As I started this thread I would ask that everyone keep it about comments and reactions directly related to PK.

Perhaps another thread regarding profiling, your problems with different groups, historical analysis, etc. could be started.

[kateykakes]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 555:
<strong>White men are by NO means the only ones people become suspicious of.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only one here I've become suspicious of is you, 555.

tx, I apologize for being off topic. I have found this thread to be extremely informative and interesting, and although I haven't had anything to really contribute, I've learned quite a bit.

[jellybean40]

i've learned alot too Katey. i'm still reading stuff i found on-line. i havent formed my final opinion yet. i see theres a political side to PK, of which most parts i dont agree with. i'm sure every man attending doesnt necessarily have the same beliefs about each of those topics, tho.

i'm not going to take the bait and get in an arguement over it, cuz i dont know the whole story yet. i am sure every woman who is married would be glad their husband was going to a rally to learn how to have a better marriage, and treat their wife better. hopefully including treating her as an equal, and believing her opinions to be as important as his.

<small>[ 08-26-2002, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: jellybean40 ]</small>

[kateykakes]

Well said, JB. I share your sentiments. :)

[Watchman]

History gives reason to be suspicious of large groups of white males.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

555...You'd better be suspicious cause in case you dont know... It's the white males that have all the GUNS .
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> :D :p

<small>[ 08-26-2002, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Watchman ]</small>

[Sweet_Kate]

Anything that makes men more appreciatative of women is good in my book! A strong head makes life allot easier,it has been good for our family. The advent of feminism has hurt families everywhere, men are made to feel usless, just "a paycheck".

Kate

[txinvestigator1]

Jellybean,

I would be interested in what you see as political in PK. I mean, other than supporting our leaders, reminding us that our government and it's authority is required by the Bible to be obeyed by Christians, and asking PK'ers to pray for our leaders.

PK does remind men that our responsibility is to uplift our wives and to make sure we make them happy. Often men set family goals and push them on, without really considering if this is also really the wife's goal.

Many of the speakers told of how at some point in their marriage they realized that the wife was not truly happy; as the man they had been leading along without really consulting and considering the wife's desires.

Once they changed this behavior the wives became happier and the marriages more sound.

Please list those things you see, I promise not to argue about them, I would really like the different point of view.

<small>[ 08-26-2002, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: txinvestigator1 ]</small>

[jellybean40]

LOL :)

The reason i wanted to learn more is, i dont like to *pick on* an organization that people belong to and enjoy, and feel it helps their lives. i was just trying to learn more before i made many comments.

Maybe the political views are more in the area of the *higher ups.* but heres a link to one article that discusses them.

<a href="http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1272/n2634_v126/20409130/p1/article.jhtml?term=" target="_blank">http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1272/n2634_v126/20409130/p1/article.jhtml?term=</a>

Also, i didnt mean you when i used the *baiting* comment. i do know that i dont always share the views of the radical type of feminist either, tho i do believe in equal pay and opportunities for women. I often joke, however, about meeting the man of my dreams, and hearing him say those three words i long to hear...

"quit your job" ....lol! hey, its a joke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Jim Burnes]

When my wife and I married, 27 years ago, we made an agreement: I would make all the really important decisions and she would make all the little decisions.

So far, there has been no really important decisions for me to make. My wife is a happy wife. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Jim Burnes

[txinvestigator1]

JB, I read half the article and see where you get the political statement.

Obviously the writer was a liberal, and once he/she quoted the American Psychological Association I stopped reading.

In my opinion, the APA is dangerous. They have said that porn on the internet in public libraries is NOT harmful to children, and if I wasn't so lazy right now I would look up some of their other dangerous policies.

The politicians were there as they were looking for votes.

The statistics he quoted on the makeup of PK is in line with protestant and catholic membership.

The quote he used regarding men leading the family..notice he only quoted enough to make it look bad. What he failed to include is the fact that men must spiritually lead the family. PK stresses we (men) are not to be tyrants or try to control our families. Whoever wrote the article was intentionally trying to mislead the reader.

Take the article for what it's worth, not much.

I could take the article paragraph by paragraph, but I won't, you are smart enough to see what I am talking about.

There IS an entire political wing out there who opposes ANY conservative religious organization. The values and morals of our country are being destroyed, and this wing wants to destroy it further. Organizations such as PK threaten this destruction.

PK tells men to avoid porn, treat our wives with respect, dignity and love, that infidelity is wrong, teaches men how to refocus our sexual energy back towards our wives, to obey our leaders by obeying the laws of our society and submitting to their authority.

Pk does have one political agenda. We want moral, spiritual leaders to be elected.

[Godside]

I cannot express how glad I am to see a thread such as this. I have never been to a P.K. Conference, but I hope to go to one SOON. I have seen many lives changed after attending P.K. conferences and I pray that it only continues. I believe it is important for Christian men to remember that we are to approach our families in a loving manner, with a servant-heart, boldness, and direction.

My parents are great people, but neither of them are Christians. The Church that I attended assisted me by showing me what it meant to be a Christian and live a life of love. I will be getting married in May as well. I am excited to be able to start a family and keep Christ first.

Again, thank you for this thread.