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Narco
01-24-2009, 04:25 PM
I remember reading case law a few years ago that said officers can remove the driver or passenger (and conversely can order them to get back in) from the vehicle on a traffic stop.

It was also in a trooper legal update but I can't seem to find it. If anyone know what the case is please let me know.

scuba4321
01-24-2009, 08:53 PM
Narco,

I will try to get it in the am. We went over it at roll call about a month ago.

BigTrooper
01-24-2009, 09:08 PM
I remember reading case law a few years ago that said officers can remove the driver or passenger (and conversely can order them to get back in) from the vehicle on a traffic stop.

It was also in a trooper legal update but I can't seem to find it. If anyone know what the case is please let me know.

Piece o' cake.

Pennsylvania v. Mimms (or Mimms v. Pennsylvania)

GeorgiaDeputy
01-24-2009, 09:25 PM
This has to be one of my favorite methods of calming down an irate motorist or passenger. I usually talk to passengers, and when they get an attitude, I yank them out and politely explain my position to them on the side of the road. It's amazing how they change their tune when they are out of their comfort zone and standing one on one with me.

2ndtimearound
01-24-2009, 10:43 PM
Maryland Vs. Wilson, also and it references the Mimms case.
Here's a link to the actual arguement before the Supreme court..this is interesting reading.
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1990-1999/1996/1996_95_1268/argument/

I also found several other cases regarding this type action.
Hope this helps.

Narco
01-25-2009, 12:44 AM
lol, unfortunately that's all I do (interdiction). I was arguing with someone from the DA's office who said police can't arbitraily order the driver or pass from the car and I know that you can.

I thought there was specific GA case law but if the one mentioned above is a USSC case that would certainly work.

Narco
01-25-2009, 01:09 AM
2nd time...can you post the other cases as well? for some reason i was thinking there was a ruling here in GA maybe 4-6 years ago. it dealt with police ordering a driver from the car w/ no suspision of criminal activity, just to conduct the stop.

2ndtimearound
01-25-2009, 03:59 PM
Narco, Here's a link to the Trooper updates
http://www.gachiefs.com/News_TrooperLegalUpdates.htm

This one may be the one you recall reading although the passenger has a warrant, the following court opinion is pretty clear on it's own.
http://www.gachiefs.com/pdfs/TrooperLegalArchives/2007%20Junenewsletter.pdf

Below is a part of that.

When police make traffic stops, a
passenger, like the driver, is seized for Fourth
Amendment purposes. Thus, the passenger
may challenge the stop’s constitutionality. Until
this decision, the Court had never squarely
answered the question whether a passenger is
also seized. The Court resolved the question
by analyzing whether a reasonable person in
Brendlin’s position, when the car stopped,
would have believed they were free to terminate
the encounter.
The Court held that any reasonable
passenger would have understood the police
officers to be exercising control to the point that
no one in the car was fee to depart without
police permission. During a lawful traffic stop,
an officer (as a matter of course) may order a
passenger out of the car as a precautionary
measure, without reasonable suspicion that the
passenger poses a safety risk. “(T)he risk of
harm to both the police and the occupants is
minimized if the officers routinely exercise
unquestioned command of the situation.”
Brendlin v. California, __ U.S. __, 127 S.Ct.

I ran across several others while doing some creative googling for about 30 minutes but did not save a link to them.

Cannot seem to find a Georgia one just a lot of references to Mimms and Wilson.

I believe Wilson is pretty clear

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-1268.ZS.html

Also see this forum

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108976

2ndtimearound
01-25-2009, 04:09 PM
Narco, a couple of us are going to the Cobb traing cntr. in Feb. for this course
http://www.patc.com/training/detail.php?ID=12583558
do you know anything about it?

Narco
01-25-2009, 10:03 PM
never heard of PATC but looks like it might be good. ive been to lots of HIDTA classes and to Desert Snow Phases 1-3. i'll be at the NCEA conference in Feb in Gwinnett.

Thanks for the links. If you happen to find any others I'd love to see them!

unc25
01-28-2009, 01:06 PM
Anyone have information on getting the Passengers ID

Couple of us were having a discussion about requiring the passenger to provide ID on a equipment violation traffic stop.

I said that they werent required, but you could still ask.

Narco
01-28-2009, 06:52 PM
yeah, you can ask but can not demand it from the passenger unless you have some RS that he is involved in something. it all depends on how you ask though =)

GeorgiaDeputy
01-28-2009, 09:16 PM
I always state that I "need to see your ID too". In the rare chance they ask if they have to, I tell them no.

I always want to tell them they are free to leave on foot if they have a problem, but I don't like write ups.

stealth600
02-01-2009, 12:33 PM
Anyone have information on getting the Passengers ID

Couple of us were having a discussion about requiring the passenger to provide ID on a equipment violation traffic stop.

I said that they werent required, but you could still ask.


I normally do not ask for passenger info unless there was something that drew them to my attention. I would acknowledge their presence speaking to driver, or that passenger, a name would come out. Then I would just make a note in the computer if needed.

A guy that used to work for us told me that he would always get everyones ID. If passengers asked him why, he would tell them that it was a security measure that he does since 9/11 (even though he was a rookie and this was last year).

pithwp
02-02-2009, 01:49 AM
I always state that I "need to see your ID too". In the rare chance they ask if they have to, I tell them no.

I always want to tell them they are free to leave on foot if they have a problem, but I don't like write ups.


When I get to the passenger and ask for ID they usually ask, what for? or If they ask if they have to I just tell them that I want to make sure they are not wanted on America's Most Wanted.

It lightens the situation and they usually comply...aleast for me.