BART shooting

[PROBY]

what is BART?? never heard of them??

[drew73]

I believe its an acronym for "Bay Area Rapid Transit"

[diamnd15]

like the bay area subway system, just called bart...

[R1pilot]

http://www.bart.gov/

[IronBruin]

Google anyone?

[R1pilot]

Don't know if anyone else has been following this shooting story but it is getting very ugly...

[VChopefull]

Yes it is.....

I cant imagine what that young officer is going through.....

A huge mistake that cant be fixed.......but the worst part is all of the "Village Idiots" who are rioting and looting because they can use this as an excuse to do so.

[chuckyduke]

Village Idiots"......is right on the money!!!

[DOAcop38]

Village Idiots"......is right on the money!!!

well, its NOT like they local "savages"( yes, I SAID IT- rioting really helps the matter,huh dummies?!) were going to do something POSITIVE ( you know, like peaceful demonstrations, respectfully demand a Dist Atty's inv, RAISE money for the family of the young man fatally shot by the BART officer.....:rolleyes: :( )

This is a tragedy because it was a lapse in either training,experience or common sense on the officers' part, and a belligerent ,but otherwise controllable individual DIED.

People, we have to communicate with our partners and DETACH ourselves sometimes from an incident. I work in a similar type of agency, and often like many PDs, multiple officers get involved in calls, and the level of control of actions deteriorates.

Locally, Inglewood PD- which has barely come out of the controversy of its own multiple shootings of unarmed suspects in mid 2007, is going thru stress and tactical resolution training. Hopefully BART PD will initiate some of the same ,so that this can be avoided in the future. Until then , the lack of experience of patrol officers out there these days is going to bring alot of issues such as this out in the open...

[Socal-Cop]

There is amateur video of the shooting all over YouTube if anyone is curious. The whole thing looked like a bad situation.. uncooperative people and then curious on-lookers crowding around

[IronBruin]

This is a tragedy because it was a lapse in either training,experience or common sense on the officers' part, and a belligerent ,but otherwise controllable individual DIED.

Well said sir.

[PROBY]

thanks for the response, out here in chicago its called the CTA or Chicago Transit Authority also known as Crushed Trampled and Abused!!!!!


as for the shooting very very bad day for everyone involved

[StalkerCop]

The Youtube video's are of poor quality and does not clearly show what happend. Of course all the liberals say it was a bad shoot but really only the officers, bad guy and maybe the others in the group truely know what happend and why. All the on lookers and the monday morning guarter backers can only guess at this point. So let the morons destroy the streets and riot while the investigation gets to the truth. Whether the officer was right or wrong, people need to be patient.

[sgttom]

............. the training.

This is a tragedy because it was a lapse in either training, experience or common sense on the officers' part, and a belligerent ,but otherwise controllable individual DIED.

[shadowphyte]

The Youtube video's are of poor quality and does not clearly show what happend. Of course all the liberals say it was a bad shoot but really only the officers, bad guy and maybe the others in the group truely know what happend and why. All the on lookers and the monday morning guarter backers can only guess at this point. So let the morons destroy the streets and riot while the investigation gets to the truth. Whether the officer was right or wrong, people need to be patient.

Sir, I did some digging and found this. Sopossedly one of the clearest videos yet. http://carlosmiller.com/2009/01/09/new-video-of-bart-shooting-emerges-offering-clearest-view-so-far-and-audio/

Prayers out to all involved. This is just a horrible mess. :(

Edit: The site itself seems rather one sided in its views but it's still the only source of the video I could find.

[GB0610]

In the video, from the angle in the site posted above, you could see the Officers shock after he realized what he did. After holstering, he stared down for a few seconds and then quickly raised his hands to his head, as if saying "what the hell?"

Sad.

God bless the victims family, especially for their public response. God bless the Officer and his family.

[Garbage Man]

What was the reason for the initial detention anyone know? It's interesting to me how against the police the crowd was prior to the shooting. It looked like the cops had them seated then decided one guy was going to get hooked, he resisted and they just overcame his resistance. No strikes no baton just arrest and control, yet the crowd is screaming "That’s f-up" and so forth. Was there something that precipitated this incident that got the crowd that ticked off or is it just an area that against cops period.

Ironically, if everyone's guess is right and the shooting was accidental, it was probably the crowd screaming that got the cop so amped up he confused a tazer for his handgun.

The fun just started though because they aren't going to be to get him on anything more than negligence or reckless endangerment, if that. The mob wants it treated like premeditated murder done for discriminatory purposes, but it wasn't that, it doesn’t even look like it was that.

[4FTTY4]

Initial incident was a fight on a train coming in from SF. Officers were at the Fruitvale (Oakland) station when it came in. The train was delayed while the officers boarded and removed the individuals who were fighting. Grant and others were the ones who were removed for fighting and probably detained for that.

[JSL0506]

Why did everyone on the train get to watch the whole thing? And they finally moved the train after the cop shoots the guy. Too bad they didn't move the train before that. The idiots on the train are screaming and harassing the cops, making things alot worse.

[StalkerCop]

Even if the officer had a look of shock on his face after it happend, that does not constitute he did anything wrong. Im not defending the officer or accusing the kid of doing anything wrong. But assumptions can not be made at this point. The investigation needs to be done to determine the truth. If anyone of you would have been in that situation whether right or wrong, you wouldnt want the gossip, rumors, assumptions, or pre judgements to be cast upon you without an investigation. Who knows what the officer is going through. Maybe he resigned not because he was wrong but because he is a rookie and just took someones life. Maybe he reacted for some reason and now has to deal with the bull**** of race issues, us v. them issues, criminal investigation and internal investigation. As for him not talking to Investigators, from what I know (Maybe some CA cops and confirm this) LAPD officer (and maybe all CA cops) do not talk in the criminal investigation of a shooting.

Even the above video that was shown still does not show everything. I could not see the kids hands. Who knows what was up.

[pulicords]

He resigned because he's facing a serious threat of criminal prosecution and would have been ordered to talk about the case with investigators, with the threat of termination if he hadn't. In situations like this, his 5th Amendment protections against self-incrimination outweigh the importance of keeping his job (for the time being). If he isn't fired (because he quit), there's a slight potential (very slight) that he could later attempt to get reinstated, should he be found not guilty in a criminal trial or not filed on at all.

Civilly, he can't rely on his 5th Amendment protections and he'll either be deposed or will have to testify in civil court about his actions. Failure to do so, could and probably would result in a finding against him by the majority of jurors.

Anyway you look at it, he's in a very tight spot, but he's following the advice of his lawyers and their concern right now is to protect him as much as possible from criminal prosecution.

[GB0610]

Even if the officer had a look of shock on his face after it happend, that does not constitute he did anything wrong. Im not defending the officer or accusing the kid of doing anything wrong. But assumptions can not be made at this point. The investigation needs to be done to determine the truth. If anyone of you would have been in that situation whether right or wrong, you wouldnt want the gossip, rumors, assumptions, or pre judgements to be cast upon you without an investigation. Who knows what the officer is going through. Maybe he resigned not because he was wrong but because he is a rookie and just took someones life. Maybe he reacted for some reason and now has to deal with the bull**** of race issues, us v. them issues, criminal investigation and internal investigation. As for him not talking to Investigators, from what I know (Maybe some CA cops and confirm this) LAPD officer (and maybe all CA cops) do not talk in the criminal investigation of a shooting.

Even the above video that was shown still does not show everything. I could not see the kids hands. Who knows what was up.

Very good post.

[StalkerCop]

He would be required to talk to Internal Affairs during the Internal investigation. He would not be required to talk during a Criminal Investigation. And any information disclosed during the Internal investigation CAN NOT be used for the criminal investigation. Its known as your Garrity rights. Internal investigators can use the criminal investigation as part of the internal investigation. But the criminal can not use or even know anything about the internal investigation. The reason for this is because as part of your job you are REQUIRED to cooperate and give an interview in a internal investigation. So that alone should not be the reason why he resigned.

[L8SHIFT]

I feel bad for this guy, he has a huge battle to fight. How new was he? It appears that he shot the suspect while attempting to stand up. This is why we constantly train to keep our finger off the trigger and along the slide unless we want to fire. He definitely had that “oh #@%!” look after the weapon discharged...

[pulicords]

...any information disclosed during the Internal investigation CAN NOT be used for the criminal investigation. Its known as your Garrity rights. Internal investigators can use the criminal investigation as part of the internal investigation. But the criminal can not use or even know anything about the internal investigation. The reason for this is because as part of your job you are REQUIRED to cooperate and give an interview in a internal investigation. So that alone should not be the reason why he resigned.

There are quite a few recent cases in CA and on the national level that have whittled down "Garrity." What was once "clearly" defined, isn't nearly so now and statements made to internal affairs investigators conducting "administrative inquiries" are now finding their way into criminal cases.

If a case is so serious that an officer believes there is a strong probability of criminal prosecution (ie: for Murder or Manslaughter), it's probably in his/her best interest to exercise the 5th Amendment right to remain silent. While I agree with the view that in the majority of use of force incidents talking to IA is routine and shouldn't be feared, there are exceptions to every "rule" and this case is one of them. Worse things can happen to officers, beyond losing their jobs. ;)

[StalkerCop]

Thats disappointing to hear about Garrity. As far as I know here is AZ its as good as ever. At least for my department. Our IA (1Sgt and 1LT) work well with our officers and union. They clearly understand the relationship they have with our criminal investigators. In the last couple shootings we had, the criminal investigators have nothing to do or even look at the IA files. For the most part, the IA investigator (LT) is pretty much satisfied with the information he recieves from the criminal investigators that it made his job easy. Our IA LT went to LAPD for some IA training and found it to be very interesting and different then the way it is done here in AZ.

[pulicords]

In 99.99% of the OIS incidents, there's no problem talking with IA or members of the DA's investigators here either. The exception would be in an extremely controversial situation like we have here. Since the political implications are major (with riots already occurring) and video itself is very damning, this case will be used as a "tool" for anyone catering to the whims of a constituency that hates "the cops", "the system" and anyone who isn't "one of them." There's always demagogues who are more than willing to use incidents like this in their own quest for political power, truth be damned.

Within the last few years, I was involved in a fatal OIS. I had no problem talking to any investigator from our agency or the District Attorney's Office about the details fo the incident and never felt they were looking for anything other than the truth. I didn't feel it was necessary for me to consult an attorney prior to giving my statements, because the incident was (IMO) clearcut, the threat was obvious and the response was reasonable. If I was in the BART officer's position, I'd keep quiet until I spoke with my attorney and follow his/her advice to the letter.

[DEcop989]

lOOKS LIKE THE POOR GUY HAS A WARRANT. GOT PICKED UP IN NEVADA.

[JSL0506]

Even if the officer had a look of shock on his face after it happend, that does not constitute he did anything wrong. Im not defending the officer or accusing the kid of doing anything wrong. But assumptions can not be made at this point. The investigation needs to be done to determine the truth. If anyone of you would have been in that situation whether right or wrong, you wouldnt want the gossip, rumors, assumptions, or pre judgements to be cast upon you without an investigation. Who knows what the officer is going through. Maybe he resigned not because he was wrong but because he is a rookie and just took someones life. Maybe he reacted for some reason and now has to deal with the bull**** of race issues, us v. them issues, criminal investigation and internal investigation. As for him not talking to Investigators, from what I know (Maybe some CA cops and confirm this) LAPD officer (and maybe all CA cops) do not talk in the criminal investigation of a shooting.

Even the above video that was shown still does not show everything. I could not see the kids hands. Who knows what was up.


Would the officer be up for murder charges now if the kid truly posed a threat to the officer's safety?

[DAL]

Realistically, it seems highly improbable that there was anything that the officer could have said that would have kept him from being fired, so it would seem that the decision not to talk to IA investigators was obvious.

[L8SHIFT]

Worse things can happen to officers, beyond losing their jobs. ;)

Like being charged with MURDER....:mad: It doesn't look like he'll get a fair trial. He's already being tried on the public streets.....:(

[DOAcop38]

Like being charged with MURDER....:mad: It doesn't look like he'll get a fair trial. He's already being tried on the public streets.....:(

that was a BONE head move- they'll NEVEr get a sticking conviction,even if they try 2nd degree. This should have gone to the grand jury as - maybe 2nd degree manslaughter- period. fair to the public, the family of the slain man, and the officer as well. for the grand jury to hear it......

[DAL]

that was a BONE head move- they'll NEVEr get a sticking conviction,even if they try 2nd degree. This should have gone to the grand jury as - maybe 2nd degree manslaughter- period. fair to the public, the family of the slain man, and the officer as well. for the grand jury to hear it......

They would get a murder conviction if the case were tried in Compton. Why not in Oakland?

[DOAcop38]

They would get a murder conviction if the case were tried in Compton. Why not in Oakland?

they can't get a murder conviction for REAL criminals in compton, let alone in Oakland.........:rolleyes: The ex officer will walk or get a manslaughter probation slap, and the fools in the "biggity Oak town" will continue to loot and smoke weed,continue their even more odious habit of blk on blk violence, or brown on brown violence,and mean mug every Oaktown,ALAMEDA CO. sheriff, or CHP copper that drives by, and the poverty, stupidity and misery will continue. ( oh, and the BART will just raise the fare to pay off the family of the dead train passenger)

[DAL]

they can't get a murder conviction for REAL criminals in compton, let alone in Oakland.........:rolleyes: The ex officer will walk or get a manslaughter probation slap, and the fools in the "biggity Oak town" will continue to loot and smoke weed,continue their even more odious habit of blk on blk violence, or brown on brown violence,and mean mug every Oaktown,ALAMEDA CO. sheriff, or CHP copper that drives by, and the poverty, stupidity and misery will continue. ( oh, and the BART will just raise the fare to pay off the family of the dead train passenger)

That is because the criminals are black or latino, the juries don't trust police officers, and they want to protect their own -- i.e., criminals.

In this case, the victim is black and the defendant is a white police officer. That is enough to get a conviction.

[AirSahara]

That is because the criminals are black or latino, the juries don't trust police officers, and they want to protect their own -- i.e., criminals.




Try not to sound too racist. Sheesh.

[DAL]

Try not to sound too racist. Sheesh.

I am not being racist. I am stating my perception of the bias of juries at the Compton courthouse. Do you think that they ignore race and status as a law enforcement officer?

Of course, I am being hyperbolic. Not all of the residents of the area are criminals, but unfortunately they live among criminals and often have family members who are criminals. They are subject to pressure and intimidation from the gangs.