Out-of-State LEO carry

[jfern022]

I am an officer from Southern Florida and will be visiting NY state, mainly Albany. Will I be allowed to bring my off-duty weapon with me to the state? I know the gun laws in NY are strict..

[NYPDxJx]

Yes you can, you are covered. However if something goes down and you have to use your weapon, your pretty much on your own.

[beachcop05]

jfern, this has already been covered several times, if you check previous posts. HR218 covers us anywhere in the country, haven't you heard of it?

[Nysco]

Just make sure you bring you Dept. ID card.

[chubadagawa]

I am an officer from Southern Florida and will be visiting NY state, mainly Albany. Will I be allowed to bring my off-duty weapon with me to the state? I know the gun laws in NY are strict..

why? Are you on a macho power trip or something? You don't need to carry a gun on you in New York City unless you go walking into the Bronx after midnight...........................:eek:

[richbrown123456]

You really should not bash someone for wanting to carry their gun. It is with it is. If he feels safe with it who are you to judge. He is going out of his home town.

If he gets robbed and mugged or shot he is going to wish he had it.(happens to someone everyday) Better safe then sorry.

Not everyone who carries is on a macho power trip.

[ItIsWhatItIs73]

any cop that doesnt carry off duty is making a big mistake

[JdotB]

any cop that doesnt carry off duty is making a big mistake

Why would you say that?

[NYSJAILER2008]

Why would you say that?
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding?:eek::confused:

[kxl77]

jfern, this has already been covered several times, if you check previous posts. HR218 covers us anywhere in the country, haven't you heard of it?

There are a lot of restrictions to HR218 since federal law does not supercede state law. And to go even further, it was only until RECENTLY that Florida was approved for HR218. HR218 did NOT recognize the state of Florida since their officers were not "certified"

Therefore, HR218 does NOT cover you anywhere in the country due to restrictions on firearms use.

[Dinosaur32]

If you meet the LEO standards set forth in HR 218, you can carry in every state of the union. Your carry privileges are regulated by the individual state's regulation of concealed carry. Wherever a state resident with a carry permit is allowed to carry, you are also.

[BigWill2876]

77,

You have it reversed, Federal Law takes precedence over State Law in the specific instances mentioned in whatever the Federal Law. Powers not specifically granted to the Federal Government by the US Constitution are granted to States.

Of course, the individual has to be within the class of law enforcement officers specifically granted CCDW by 218.

ON a side note Florida recognizes that no resident of Fla can be denied a permit to CCDW within Florida as long as he/she takes the required school and has no history of mental illness or felony arrests.

[JdotB]

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding?:eek::confused:

Not really. Just because you can carry with you off-duty, doesn't mean that you always have to. I would imagine that taking your firearm with you everywhere you go off-duty creates a hassle. If I'm going out to the supermarket, what's the need to carry?

Take a look at this lady btw: http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081212_Gun-toting_woman_divides_community.html

[gbotj]

If I'm going out to the supermarket, what's the need to carry?

because the guy about to rob the supermarket has one.

[nyc1219]

Not really. Just because you can carry with you off-duty, doesn't mean that you always have to. I would imagine that taking your firearm with you everywhere you go off-duty creates a hassle. If I'm going out to the supermarket, what's the need to carry?

Take a look at this lady btw: http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081212_Gun-toting_woman_divides_community.html

no off duty cop would be showing off their firearm like that in the first place. she might be related to the general, she's seems a bit EDPish to me.

if you are one of the very few people in NYC (mostly LEO)who are allowed to carry a firearm LEGALLY!!, then you should exercise that right. just not the way that lady does. it would create more of a hassle if you didn't have it and needed it. wish I had one when I got stabbed or when I had a perps gun in my face.

[JdotB]

Damn, I feel you man.

Another Q: I currently have a gun, Glock 19 9mm. I have a CCW for the state of PA, but am moving to NYC in August. I know for sure that I'm not crossing state lines with it until everything is legal, but how would go about in getting everything legal by August when I won't have an official New York state address until then?

[nyc1219]

Damn, I feel you man.

Another Q: I currently have a gun, Glock 19 9mm. I have a CCW for the state of PA, but am moving to NYC in August. I know for sure that I'm not crossing state lines with it until everything is legal, but how would go about in getting everything legal by August when I won't have an official New York state address until then?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/permits/handgun_licensing_information.shtml

good luck tho. the gun laws are stiff. you might have to leave it in PA untill you finish the P.A.

[10-97UPD]

Good old NYC.....the first place in NY State where you NEED to carry and the last place to let you.

[JdotB]

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/permits/handgun_licensing_information.shtml

good luck tho. the gun laws are stiff. you might have to leave it in PA untill you finish the P.A.

$340 application fee and a $100 fingerprint fee?

Are they freaking out of their mind?? It's a 9mm....not an AR-15!!! I'll be paying more in fee's than I would for the gun itself. Whatever happened to the Second Amendment? This process is so long and full of BS that I would probably have to end up getting a lawyer for it just so I don't get Plaxico Burress'd.

It looks like I would either a) Keep it at my parent's place in PA until I become an LEO. b) Turn it in to one of those "gun drives" and get like $200 for it.

[nyc1219]

sell it. your gonna need the money for a new one anyways.

[JdotB]

sell it. your gonna need the money for a new one anyways.

I kind of don't want to sell it because it's my first gun. Can't I just use this one as my on-duty weapon?

[nyc1219]

if it meets the req's of the dept then yes (model/cal).

[kingofqueens718]

no off duty cop would be showing off their firearm like that in the first place. she might be related to the general, she's seems a bit EDPish to me.

if you are one of the very few people in NYC (mostly LEO)who are allowed to carry a firearm LEGALLY!!, then you should exercise that right. just not the way that lady does. it would create more of a hassle if you didn't have it and needed it. wish I had one when I got stabbed or when I had a perps gun in my face.

I can't believe that she walks into Wal-Mart or the local 7-11 with that Glock all out in the open like that. This isn't 1800's Dodge City.

[NYSJAILER2008]

Not really. Just because you can carry with you off-duty, doesn't mean that you always have to. I would imagine that taking your firearm with you everywhere you go off-duty creates a hassle. If I'm going out to the supermarket, what's the need to carry?

Take a look at this lady btw: http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081212_Gun-toting_woman_divides_community.html
WTF are you still kidding!!!!!!!!!!! LOLOLOL

[BigWill2876]

Father, NJSP, says he had two instances where he drew and would have fired if the other person had not followed directions.

First on duty arresting armed robbery of 7/11.

Second off duty when a road rage guy approached him with tire iron.


"Back in the day", as he says when Officers/Troopers were "expected" to hit what they shot at in 6 or less shots !:D

[DAL]

There are a lot of restrictions to HR218 since federal law does not supercede state law. And to go even further, it was only until RECENTLY that Florida was approved for HR218. HR218 did NOT recognize the state of Florida since their officers were not "certified"

Therefore, HR218 does NOT cover you anywhere in the country due to restrictions on firearms use.

Your understanding of HR 218 is severely lacking.

[DAL]

If you meet the LEO standards set forth in HR 218, you can carry in every state of the union. Your carry privileges are regulated by the individual state's regulation of concealed carry. Wherever a state resident with a carry permit is allowed to carry, you are also.

The way HR 218 is written, the local state's restrictions on where a permit-holder can carry do not determine whether an off-duty law-enforcement officer from another state may lawfully carry. The restrictions a state may impose are written into 18 USC 926B and 926C.

[Dinosaur32]

DAL....You interpret 218 to trump Florida's ban on carrying a firearm in a bar?

[DAL]

Yes, assuming that Florida does not allow permit holders to carry in a bar, I do (so long as the officer is not intoxicated). That precise issue was recently decided in South Dakota. A vacationing Seattle officer shot a motorcycle gang member in a bar. Charges of unlawful carrying of a firearm were dismissed on a pretrial motion.

Suppose a state only issued CCW permits to merchants, and state law allowed the permit holder only to carry a weapon when transporting money to or from a bank. Would you then say that out-of-state LEOs could only carry a weapon when transporting money to or from a bank?

[Letmypeoplego]

So basically the laws of the state of Florida supercedes the signature of the President of the United States on a house resolution.

[DAL]

So basically the laws of the state of Florida supercedes the signature of the President of the United States on a house resolution.

The President does not sign house resolutions.

The law in question passed both the House and the Senate, and was signed by the President. It is codified in 18 US Code section 926B. Subsection (b) of that code specifies the circumstances under which state law may limit the officer's right to carry:

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

[Letmypeoplego]

The President does not sign house resolutions.

The law in question passed both the House and the Senate, and was signed by the President. It is codified in 18 US Code section 926B. Subsection (b) of that code specifies the circumstances under which state law may limit the officer's right to carry:

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.



Thank you for the history lesson on presidential powers. The president did in fact sign legislation passed by both houses. I believe Florida voted yea on the issue. So DeFacto the president did ultimately sign a house resolution which is the point I was trying to make.

[DAL]

I still don't think you understand the terminology.

A resolution is not a law, but a measure expressing opinions on policies or issues or dealing with the internal affairs of a house. It does not have the force of law.

Furthermore, whether Florida approved of the bill that was enacted is irrelevant. Federal law trumps Florida law regardless of whether Florida likes it.

[Letmypeoplego]

[QUOTE=DAL;1563785
Federal law trumps Florida law regardless of whether Florida likes it.[/QUOTE]

Bingo, my point exactly

[DAL]

Bingo, my point exactly

Apparently, we speak different languages.

[Letmypeoplego]

I'm guessing you're not from NY. The question arises from a local NJ prosecutor that borders NYC and whether said NJ prosecutor would consider abiding by HR218. The opinion was that they had no choice. Granted the HR has many gaps, loopholes, whatever but, the presidents signature, by whatever machinations it got there, counts for something. That was/is my point.

[beachcop05]

Not really. Just because you can carry with you off-duty, doesn't mean that you always have to. I would imagine that taking your firearm with you everywhere you go off-duty creates a hassle. If I'm going out to the supermarket, what's the need to carry?

Take a look at this lady btw: http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081212_Gun-toting_woman_divides_community.html


There was a cop in LA who got shot in front of his house taking his garbage out. So you can never "not need" your gun off-duty. But you'll learn all this stuff in the academy and once you become a cop.

[jfern022]

I'm fully aware of HR 218 and what it says. It does leave a couple of things to interpretation. I'm not bringing my weapon to be macho or anything like that. Where I work in Southern Florida, its a mandate to have your offduty weapon with you, because of the amount of violence.

It wasn't so much of a legal question, but more of an opinion question posed to LEO's in NY. As if you were to stop a LEO who was carrying and had his credentials. Would he be given a hard time? If a LEO had to act using the weapon, but he was an out-of-state LEO, would he get into trouble if it was within the letter of the law?

[FL50]

jfern I'm wondering the same thing as you are. Im heading to NYC later in the month and I'm a cop here too in Florida. I was wondering if I could carry concealed when I'm there. After reading this whole post i'm still unsure if I can.

[NYPO]

I kind of don't want to sell it because it's my first gun. Can't I just use this one as my on-duty weapon?

You get a brand new one for free from NYPD, so why use your own? You will not get a carry permit in NYC. Its very rare. Just because you have a permit in PA won't mean anything to NYC. Just leave it in PA and when you graduate the academy you are a cop and can have it, just fill out an aquisition form with your precinct when you get assigned

[NYPO]

I'm fully aware of HR 218 and what it says. It does leave a couple of things to interpretation. I'm not bringing my weapon to be macho or anything like that. Where I work in Southern Florida, its a mandate to have your offduty weapon with you, because of the amount of violence.

It wasn't so much of a legal question, but more of an opinion question posed to LEO's in NY. As if you were to stop a LEO who was carrying and had his credentials. Would he be given a hard time? If a LEO had to act using the weapon, but he was an out-of-state LEO, would he get into trouble if it was within the letter of the law?

Coming from an NYPD officer, if I stopped you and you were carrying I just would like the courtesy that you give to any other police officer in the country to let me know before I see it. If I pull you over, you know the drill, let me know. Don't let my partner on the passenger side see it and have us draw on you or anything. You are perfectly legal to carry your firearm in NYC if you are a sworn LEO and can carry with your department (ie. not on suspension that would otherwise not allow you to currently carry a firearm) as far as using it in case you need it well I'm not sure but personally, who cares? If you shot someone, who cares what the legal reprucussions are. You protected yourself and your family. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Be familiar with HR218. Think of it this way, if you are authorized to carry the weapon off duty in your own state in your own department than you can carry that in any state.

[NYSJAILER2008]

Coming from an NYPD officer, if I stopped you and you were carrying I just would like the courtesy that you give to any other police officer in the country to let me know before I see it. If I pull you over, you know the drill, let me know. Don't let my partner on the passenger side see it and have us draw on you or anything. You are perfectly legal to carry your firearm in NYC if you are a sworn LEO and can carry with your department (ie. not on suspension that would otherwise not allow you to currently carry a firearm) as far as using it in case you need it well I'm not sure but personally, who cares? If you shot someone, who cares what the legal reprucussions are. You protected yourself and your family. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Be familiar with HR218. Think of it this way, if you are authorized to carry the weapon off duty in your own state in your own department than you can carry that in any state.
This is correct, but remember that you are a civilian out of state and you must act as if you are CCW with that state's issued pemits and must abide by all state handguns laws and you can only carry where its allowed and what magazines and ammo is allowed. NOT like in your home state where you have 24/7 powers and where you are exempt for CCW restrictions.

[NYCDep]

About carrying a gun off duty; what my firearms instructor told me which I could not argue with:

Better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.

[NYPO]

This is correct, but remember that you are a civilian out of state and you must act as if you are CCW with that state's issued pemits and must abide by all state handguns laws and you can only carry where its allowed and what magazines and ammo is allowed. NOT like in your home state where you have 24/7 powers and where you are exempt for CCW restrictions.

Maybe someone else can clarify this more but I believe you are wrong. Yes you are a civilian out of state as far as not being able to enforce laws, however I do not think you are correct when you say a Police Officer has to abide by state handgun laws just like a permit holder. This would mean when I travel through NJ coming home from the city I would have to unload my weapon of hollow points, then load hollow points back in when I arrive back in NY. HR218 states that whatever service weapon or backup weapon you are authorized in you can carry including the ammo that you carry at your agency. This would mean that I can carry my Hollowpoint ammunition in all states, regardless of the states laws for permit holders. It would also mean that I would not be allowed to carry my magazines at full capacity. It would also mean that officers from out of state would not be able to carry in NYC, which is also false.

[SlowDownThere]

This process is so long and full of BS that I would probably have to end up getting a lawyer for it just so I don't get Plaxico Burress'd.




I understand NY has imposed a 10 day waiting period for the purchase of any pair of sweatpants. ;)

[NYSJAILER2008]

Maybe someone else can clarify this more but I believe you are wrong. Yes you are a civilian out of state as far as not being able to enforce laws, however I do not think you are correct when you say a Police Officer has to abide by state handgun laws just like a permit holder. This would mean when I travel through NJ coming home from the city I would have to unload my weapon of hollow points, then load hollow points back in when I arrive back in NY. HR218 states that whatever service weapon or backup weapon you are authorized in you can carry including the ammo that you carry at your agency. This would mean that I can carry my Hollowpoint ammunition in all states, regardless of the states laws for permit holders. It would also mean that I would not be allowed to carry my magazines at full capacity. It would also mean that officers from out of state would not be able to carry in NYC, which is also false.
That is what I am saying. You can carry anything you choose in another state as LEO at your own peril. That home state's LEO will not jam you up for CCW your duty or off-duty firearm. But if what you are carrying is illegal to CCW by pistol permit holders of that state's law and you are CCW by virtue of HR-218 and GOD forbid you have to use that weapon. A state prosecutor (DA) will hang you out to dry and trust me your dept. especially (NYPD) will not back you if they find out you was in violation of any laws while off-duty. If you dont believe me why dont you write any town in NJ DA's Office and them if you are CCW with mags over state law capacity and carrying illegal HP ammo and you are an out of state LEO what will happen to you. And then get back to me about how wrong I am about HR-218 laws. When I go to NJ I use FMJ ammo and mags that are not over 15 rounds capacity. But since you are NYPD and you can only use dept issued ammo in your duty and off-duty firearm going into NJ is a catch 22 for you. Because if you you use illegal ammo and mags you can get jammed up legally and if you use differnent ammo than issued then you can get jammed by the DEPT if ever involved in an off-duty shooting.

[NYSJAILER2008]

Maybe someone else can clarify this more but I believe you are wrong. Yes you are a civilian out of state as far as not being able to enforce laws, however I do not think you are correct when you say a Police Officer has to abide by state handgun laws just like a permit holder. This would mean when I travel through NJ coming home from the city I would have to unload my weapon of hollow points, then load hollow points back in when I arrive back in NY. HR218 states that whatever service weapon or backup weapon you are authorized in you can carry including the ammo that you carry at your agency. This would mean that I can carry my Hollowpoint ammunition in all states, regardless of the states laws for permit holders. It would also mean that I would not be allowed to carry my magazines at full capacity. It would also mean that officers from out of state would not be able to carry in NYC, which is also false.
I would think you are wrong again. Why would Out of State LEO not be able to CCW in NYC? They can as long as they follow the same rules as a Unrestricted NYC Pistol Permit holder's rules and regulations on the places they can CCW and magazine capacity and ammo laws.

[hxd]

Maybe someone else can clarify this more...

The (previous) New Jersey Attorney General issued a memo in 2005, clarifying the state's opinion on HR218 and how it pertains to out-of-state LEOs visiting or travelling through New Jersey. Whether it has been tested yet, I do not know.

Yes you are a civilian out of state as far as not being able to enforce laws, however I do not think you are correct when you say a Police Officer has to abide by state handgun laws just like a permit holder.

According to the above referenced memo, this is incorrect. A LEO from another state who is in the state of New Jersey must abide by all of the same conditions of a civilian CCW holder, including the restrictions on hollow-point ammunition.

Again, I don't know whether or not this has been tested, further refined, or even reversed with the new AG. The memo, as it was issued, seems to be pretty cut-and-dry.




TO: All County Prosecutors
Colonel Joseph R. Fuentes, Superintendent, Division of State Police
All Police Chiefs
All Law Enforcement Chief Executives
FROM: Peter C. Harvey, Attorney General

DATE: June 7, 2005

RE: Guidance Regarding the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 [Pl. 108-277 (H.R. 218)].

The recently enacted Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, 18 U.S.C.A. §926B and §926C ("H.R. 218") allows full-time active duty and retired law enforcement officers, how meet specific criteria, to carry concealed firearms anywhere throughout the nation without having first obtained permits to carry from a foreign state. The passage of H.R. 218 has raised a number of questions with regard to New Jersey's police officers traveling out of state as well as with police officers from other jurisdictions visiting our state.

A. Full-Time Active Duty Officers

With respect to full-time active duty police officers, we discourage agencies from permitting their officers to take the agency issued weapons out of state. Nonetheless, each New Jersey law enforcement agency should, in consultation with its legal counsel, make its own determination. In formulating a policy, each agency should consider the following issues. First, firearms issued by a police department are government property; making each agency potentially liable for the use or misuse of that weapon by one of its police officers. Liability may attach for the misuse of a weapon regardless of whether the officer is on personal business outside of his or her jurisdiction. If your agency currently requires officers to carry their agency issued weapon off duty, then it may be prudent to evaluate that restriction in light of the passage of H.R. 218.

Second, H.R. 218 does not provide active duty police officers with law enforcement powers or immunities outside of their jurisdictions. While on personal business, police officers are ordinary citizens who happen to have the right to carry concealed weapons as a result of H.R. 218. Each agency must determine whether it will provide legal representation to officers who may fire or otherwise use their agency issued weapon while out of state on personal business.

We recommend that all agencies clearly and unequivocally advise their officers of the foregoing by way of a clearly written policy. We are also requesting that all agencies remind active full-time police officers that they do not possess police powers or immunities in other states and are personally responsible for checking and understanding the laws of any jurisdictions that they visit while armed.

B. Active Duty Police Officers From Other States

We have received a number of inquiries from police officers from other jurisdictions inquiring as to their "authority" under H.R. 218 while they travel through or remain in New Jersey while on personal business. The appropriate response is that they are ordinary citizens while visiting our state and possess no police powers. Similarly, the federal law does not provide immunity to out of state officers who commit firearms related offenses within New Jersey. Please advise out of state officers who seek guidance that if they happen upon a situation in our state that requires police intervention, they should call the appropriate state, county, or municipal police department to respond. Finally, some jurisdictions permit their citizens and police officers to openly carry their weapons. Please be advised that H.R. 218 permits only the carrying of concealed firearms.

C. Retired Police Officers

The passage of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act does not alter the obligation of retired New Jersey law enforcement officers to comply with the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6I in order to carry a firearm in this state. Absent statutory changes to our retired officer permitting procedures, it remains in full effect and officers must comply with its requirements. Furthermore, retired New Jersey police offices who carry a gun in another state are ordinary citizens. The right to carry a gun under H.R. 218 does not imply the right to exercise police powers. Further information concerning the rights and obligations of retired New Jersey police officers to carry a firearm under H.R. 218 will be issued in the near future.

D. Other Restrictions

Finally, H.R. 218 does not supersede or limit existing New Jersey law. Therefore, it remains permissible for private business and government agencies (such as casinos and schools), as many currently do, to restrict the possession of firearms on their property

[NYPO]

The (previous) New Jersey Attorney General issued a memo in 2005, clarifying the state's opinion on HR218 and how it pertains to out-of-state LEOs visiting or travelling through New Jersey. Whether it has been tested yet, I do not know.



According to the above referenced memo, this is incorrect. A LEO from another state who is in the state of New Jersey must abide by all of the same conditions of a civilian CCW holder, including the restrictions on hollow-point ammunition.

Again, I don't know whether or not this has been tested, further refined, or even reversed with the new AG. The memo, as it was issued, seems to be pretty cut-and-dry.


The new NJ AG has made his position clear. He has stated that HR218 DOES make an out of state police officer a normal citizen for the enforcement of laws but does allow a duly authorized police officer to carry said weapon and ammo as long as he is authorized by his employing agency. N.J.S.2C:39-6 is the state statute for gun laws for the state of NJ. You can research it if you want the entire length but its very lengthy so I shortened it.

2C:39-3. Prohibited Weapons and Devices.

a. Destructive devices. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any destructive device is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

b. Sawed-off shotguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any sawed-off shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

c. Silencers. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any firearm silencer is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

d. Defaced firearms. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any firearm which has been defaced, except an antique firearm or an antique handgun, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

f. Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose [/b]or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than .025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and (c) is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.





The current AG was requested to define this because off duty NJ officers can't carry HP. He stated that under N.J.S.2C:39-6 he references exemption #7 applying to out of state LEO under HR218. Read #7

2C:39-6. Exemptions.

(1) Members of the Armed Forces of the United States or of the National Guard while actually on duty, or while traveling between places of duty and carrying authorized weapons in the manner prescribed by the appropriate military authorities;

(2)Federal law enforcement officers, and any other federal officers and employees required to carry firearms in the performance of their official duties;

(3) Members of the State Policeand, under conditions prescribed by the superintendent, members of the Marine Law Enforcement Bureau of the Division of State Police;

(4) A sheriff, undersheriff, sheriff's officer, county prosecutor, assistant prosecutor, prosecutor's detective or investigator, deputy attorney general or State investigator employed by the Division of Criminal Justice of the Department of Law and Public Safety, investigator employed by the State Commission of Investigation, inspector of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Enforcement Bureau of the Division of State Police in the Department of Law and Public Safety authorized to carry such weapons by the Superintendent of State Police, State park police officer, or State conservation officer;


(5) A prison or jail warden of any penal institution in this State or his deputies, or an employee of the Department of Corrections engaged in the interstate transportation of convicted offenders, while in the performance of his duties, and when required to possess the weapon by his superior officer, or a correction officer or keeper of a penal institution in this State at all times while in the State of New Jersey, provided he annually passes an examination approved by the superintendent testing his proficiency in the handling of firearms;


(6) A civilian employee of the United States Government under the supervision of the commanding officer of any post, camp, station, base or other military or naval installation located in this State who is required, in the performance of his official duties, to carry firearms, and who is authorized to carry such firearms by said commanding officer, while in the actual performance of his official duties;

(7) (a) A regularly employed member, including a detective, of the police department of any county or municipality, or of any State, interstate, municipal or county park police force or boulevard police force, at all times while in the State of New Jersey;

(b) A special law enforcement officer authorized to carry a weapon as provided in subsection b. of section 7 of P.L.1985, c.439 (C.40A:14-146.14);

(c) An airport security officer or a special law enforcement officer appointed by the governing body of any county or municipality, except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, or by the commission, board or other body having control of a county park or airport or boulevard police force, while engaged in the actual performance of his official duties and when specifically authorized by the governing body to carry weapons;


I know with HR218 you can be in a room of 20 guys and get 20 different interpretations. Basically I am not about to go change my magazines and ammo out when I travel with my service or off duty weapon that I am qualified in with my Police Department. HR218 was adopted to expand LEO to carry outside of their state and expanded that ability to all 50 states. It did not expand their powers of arrest, but expanded their ccw ability. The way I interpret everything, an out of state LEO can carry their weapon and ammo in any state. You may interpret it different than I.

[NYPO]

I would think you are wrong again. Why would Out of State LEO not be able to CCW in NYC? They can as long as they follow the same rules as a Unrestricted NYC Pistol Permit holder's rules and regulations on the places they can CCW and magazine capacity and ammo laws.

I say that because the NYS CPL says EXCEPT NYC which you have to obtain permission and permit from the Police Commissioner. I may be stretching it far there, I was just playing devil's advocate

[NYSJAILER2008]

I say that because the NYS CPL says EXCEPT NYC which you have to obtain permission and permit from the Police Commissioner. I may be stretching it far there, I was just playing devil's advocate
Yeah well out of state LEO CCW in NYC is like possession of a unrestricted NYC pistol permit. Many out of state leo CCW in NYC, but they just have to follow NYC handgun laws to be in compliance with HR-218. As would you in their state. PERIOD

[NYSJAILER2008]

We recommend that all agencies clearly and unequivocally advise their officers of the foregoing by way of a clearly written policy. We are also requesting that all agencies remind active full-time police officers that they do not possess police powers or immunities in other states and are personally responsible for checking and understanding the laws of any jurisdictions that they visit while armed


The (previous) New Jersey Attorney General issued a memo in 2005, clarifying the state's opinion on HR218 and how it pertains to out-of-state LEOs visiting or travelling through New Jersey. Whether it has been tested yet, I do not know.



According to the above referenced memo, this is incorrect. A LEO from another state who is in the state of New Jersey must abide by all of the same conditions of a civilian CCW holder, including the restrictions on hollow-point ammunition.

Again, I don't know whether or not this has been tested, further refined, or even reversed with the new AG. The memo, as it was issued, seems to be pretty cut-and-dry.
This sounds like what I been telling you NYPO. Like I said its a personal decision and maybe you have enought time on the job to survive a off-duty incident but I dont think you should give these rookie officers advise while they are on their 2 year probation and could jammed up and lose the career that they worked hard for (money,school,training,salary,pension,benefits) over CCW in another state. NY will throw you under the bus if a off-duty incident is not 100%, what do you think will happen out of state if their is any grey areas in your side of the story when reporting to (nypd) IA and NJ DA or NJ AG and NJ local or fed LEO????

[BigWill2876]

Jailer,

The carrying of hollow point ammo is not against the law in NJ for out of state LEO any more that instate LEO in NJ.

What IS illegal is the USE of hollow point ammo in the commission of a crime.

So if you, the out of state LEO, are forced to use your CDW in a LEGAL use of force than you have NO problem in NJ.

IF you happen to be robbing a bank as an out of state LEO (happened few months ago) and you were carrying hollow point than you could face another additional charge on top of the original charges.

[NYSJAILER2008]

Jailer,

The carrying of hollow point ammo is not against the law in NJ for out of state LEO any more that instate LEO in NJ.

What IS illegal is the USE of hollow point ammo in the commission of a crime.

So if you, the out of state LEO, are forced to use your CDW in a LEGAL use of force than you have NO problem in NJ.

IF you happen to be robbing a bank as an out of state LEO (happened few months ago) and you were carrying hollow point than you could face another additional charge on top of the original charges.
Ok BigWill,


I say CCW anywhere you can to protect yourself and family. All I am saying is get the laws from state DA or AG or your attorney or your dept union (PBA) and dept SOP of off-duty firearms before you enter any state by virtue of HR-218.

[BigWill2876]

BE safe and be cautious off duty and on duty.

Be no less aware of your surroundings and your pre-thought out tactical response to events as they occur... than a third baseman with a man on first would be on a hot grounder back to him. The good hot corner guys plan ahead of the pitch of what they will do with the ball if hit to them....we should be no less prepared...

FNG, don't bring a weapon CDW out of state that you aren't qualified for at your job, then you will be open to be hung out.
ALCOHOL does not make you think better or react faster.
Walk away, young man/woman, walk away if you can.

[2971511]

Robbing a bank is bad, on duty or off duty.