View Full Version : Suffolk runs out of cash for gun buybacks, still keeps guns
velobard
12-25-2008, 08:36 AM
Mark DeAngelis heard that Suffolk County was giving people $200 gift cards to turn in illegal handguns last weekend, so he looked behind a rafter in a warehouse he rents and found a revolver he stashed there 20 years ago, he said.
He called Suffolk's Third Precinct in Bay Shore, confirmed that they were still doing the program and then drove there and turned over the gun, he said.
But after he handed the gun to the officer, he said he got bad news: There was no money left.
"He basically said, 'You just gave me an illegal handgun. We're out of money. Do you have a problem with that?' " said DeAngelis, 43, of Patchogue, who said he bought the gun to get it out of the hands of a man he considered dangerous.
"He said he would give me a receipt if I went in the back and showed him some ID," DeAngelis said. "I just walked out. I thought the whole point was that the program was supposed to be anonymous."
Lt. Bob Donohue, commanding officer of the department's Community Outreach Bureau, said it's true that the department burned through the $15,000 in state grants it had set aside for the buy back program this weekend after about 95 guns were turned in - more than they ever expected. But he said people do not need to give their names to officers to get a receipt. If officers asked anyone for ID or a phone number, it was probably just so they could call them to let them know when additional gift cards have come in, he said.
He said additional Visa gift cards will be ordered tomorrow and should be in within about a week.
But DeAngelis wasn't the only person who said he was asked to identify himself.
A 42-year-old Port Jefferson Station woman, who asked that her name not be used for fear of repercussions, said she turned in seven illegal guns that had belonged to her father, who passed away 13 years ago. She said she balked when she was asked for her name and phone number.
"How is that anonymous?" she asked. "Anonymous is not 'Give us your name and number and in two weeks you'll get your gift card.' "
Nassau, which also held a gun buyback this weekend, also ran out of money after more than 400 people brought in illegal guns. After the cash they had on hand was gone, church officials who coordinated the program gave people anonymous vouchers that they can bring back this weekend for cash.
Donohue said Suffolk ran out of money by Sunday, but continued writing receipts through Tuesday. He said as of Tuesday night, people turning in illegal guns would not be given gift cards or get their guns back.
"If they hand us an illegal handgun and we have no money, we can't give back the gun," he said.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/suffolk/ny-liguns2412301475dec24,0,5855767.story
StephDakel
12-25-2008, 09:20 AM
what a total scam! that guy deserves his $200 for his illegal hang gun....case closed!!!!!!!
i swear, the man is always tryin to get you down.
xJKVR6M69x
12-25-2008, 09:28 AM
It's a shame that people don't have a right to have guns in New York. It's also a shame that many of these firearms will be taken out of circulation some of which are surely collector items... not to mention they give them up for nothing. Why not just spend a weekend go to another state and sell them for way more than 200 dollars. And seriously the people who the police are targeting, namely criminals who shouldn't have the guns... are NOT going to turn them in so really its just another way The Glorious Peoples Republic Of New York is taking away the honest mans right to bear arms.
Mstangfk
12-25-2008, 10:42 AM
why are they ILLEGAL guns again, they arent a bunch of full auto Mac-10's holy crap the media is killing me...
from what i understand they are mostly getting non working antiques as well as a bunch of WWII vintage weapons that should be in collections.
xJKVR6M69x
12-25-2008, 12:11 PM
why are they ILLEGAL guns again, they arent a bunch of full auto Mac-10's holy crap the media is killing me...
from what i understand they are mostly getting non working antiques as well as a bunch of WWII vintage weapons that should be in collections.
This is true but also it is near impossible to even own guns in New York. Takes months to register a long gun and 6 months to submit to even own a handgun in most of the state and definitely in the 5 boroughs. There isn't even such a thing as a ccw in the 5 boroughs. You can carry on work premises, home, or transport firearm to and from home/range/place of business. And place of business only if transporting a certain amount of money. So basically any gun is an "illegal" gun in New York. If you talk to a lot of civilians in New York they hear you have a gun of any sort they get all uncomfortable because in their eyes any gun is "taboo".
I saw this a while back. Check it out and apply to New York heh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L3kMuN8sjk
Mitchell_in_CT
12-25-2008, 12:27 PM
There isn't even such a thing as a ccw in the 5 boroughs...
Well...Actually, their is but you have to know G0D on a personal level, or have as much money as he does.
When I called the NYPD permit section about having a CT permit validated for the city, they told me I'd have to have a really substantial reason for them to do it.
velobard
12-25-2008, 02:49 PM
Aside from my problems with gun buybacks in general, my problem with this one is if the article is correct and they're misleading about the fact that they're out of money (by stating the program is still running) until they already have the guns turned over. I understand why people wouldn't want to leave their names when dropping off illegal guns.
StephDakel
12-25-2008, 02:58 PM
You guys think New York has tough gun laws?!
You obviously haven't seen Chicago's gun laws.
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=5831822
$200 is a good price for some junk guns. You can buy them on the street for less and turn the guns in for a profit. No wonder the police ran out of money.
safetyallday
12-25-2008, 04:54 PM
At least they are off the street. They can boo hoo all they want, but they won't get their illegal guns back. Good.
velobard
12-25-2008, 06:28 PM
$200 is a good price for some junk guns. You can buy them on the street for less and turn the guns in for a profit. No wonder the police ran out of money.
Regardless of whatever price they're offering, to say the program is still running and then saying they don't have money after the gun has been turned in amounts, at best, to bait and switch. Unfortunately, if this is the way it's happening, many people won't view it in "the best" perspective and you can guess what they'll be saying.
Admittedly my view of this is probably tainted by how much disdain I have for gun buyback programs, the money would be much better spent elsewhere, but this is not an honest way to conduct business. If they're out of money, they should be open about that fact.
I would not call it "bait and switch." I would call it fraud.
VA Dutch
12-25-2008, 07:03 PM
I would hardly call it a gun "buyback" program at all. The police (or county government) never owned the guns in the first place, so how can they buy them 'back'?
:confused:
This, as others have mentioned, is nothing more than a feel-good initiative and a great way to waste taxpayer dollars. {Yeah, what else is new?} The 'bad guys' normally won't be the ones to turn in their guns; and there is a great possiblity that weapons which may have been used in the commission of a crime {a.k.a. evidence} will be easily disposed of.
As with many other "gun control" schemes, taxpayer money will be spent, lip service will be paid to a particular issue, sheeple will be pacified with symbolism and the criminal element will continue to act with impunity as they thumb their noses at society.
:p
P.S. Merry Christmas to all of you folks!
I think someone needs to do a study to demonstrate that these programs encourage the theft of firearms. $200 is probably more than a burglar can get for many stolen firearms on the street.
I also wonder whether the police are checking whether the guns turned in are stolen. If they destroy the weapons without returning them to their rightful owners, the police may be committing a crime. In Suffolk County it is not illegal to own a gun, and even if it were, the gun could have been stolen from another jurisdiction.
ItIsWhatItIs73
12-25-2008, 08:27 PM
the only place in ny state you need to have a permit for a long gun is in nyc im pretty in all other counties one is not needed. And to be honest i'm in favor of restricting handguns and I'm in strong supporter of the second amendment.
velobard
12-25-2008, 09:26 PM
And to be honest i'm in favor of restricting handguns and I'm in strong supporter of the second amendment.
Talk about an oxymoron. Restrict the handguns and you hand the advantage to the criminals by legal mandate.
velobard
12-25-2008, 09:56 PM
I would not call it "bait and switch." I would call it fraud.
Let's just say I was trying to be overly polite.
xJKVR6M69x
12-26-2008, 02:44 PM
At least they are off the street. They can boo hoo all they want, but they won't get their illegal guns back. Good.
Off the street? The bad ghettoes of rural long island are a horrible place im sure... Nassau is the last place I am worried about someone having a gun. None of the criminals that have guns are turning theirs in, thus defeating the entire purpose. This is what I was talking about earlier the ignorance involved in the general populations view on citizens having guns. These people turning in their guns arent the criminals who are using them to rob people or commit crimes (which would gain them alot more than 200 dollars through illicit use) so yea it is sad that they won't get their money because the honest people are turning in something during a troubled economic time. Illegal guns is a total joke because the true illegal guns are the ones that won't ever get turned in. :confused:
xJKVR6M69x
12-26-2008, 02:49 PM
Well...Actually, their is but you have to know G0D on a personal level, or have as much money as he does.
When I called the NYPD permit section about having a CT permit validated for the city, they told me I'd have to have a really substantial reason for them to do it.
This is very true, it's all about who you know. Our Lt. Colonol (USMC) got his in about 2 weeks and he has no more reason to have one than I do. It is all about who you know. And yea my bank account is just shy of Godliness so I am kindof screwed. Just bought a KelTec sub2000. Good little carbine that I can legally transport with a long gun permit (easier to get) and it fires .40 S&W rounds out of a S&W pistol magazine. Its total length is 30 inches and collapses in the middle to a total collapsed length of 16 and 1/4 inches. So there are loopholes. Btw it is a collapsible gun not stock sooo it is still NY legal ;) .
fedny
12-26-2008, 02:51 PM
It is not impossible to get a permit on Long Island. Most of you are referring to NYC laws. You can have long guns on Long Island but need a permit for pistols.
Monty Ealerman
12-26-2008, 03:45 PM
Shaking my head in shame.
The government offers a quid pro quo to the public, and then, when someone delivers the quid, says in his face while confronting him with police force no quo, you got a problem with that, thus using the police power to bully and deprive the PEOPLE. Evil evil evil.
Unbelievable. That's criminal. That descends all the way down below low-down thug.
It's exactly the sort of thing that led to the Revolutionary War.
This practice besmirches the public honor.
An honest dope dealer who gives his customers what they pay for is admirable by comparison.
At least he knows word is bond.
Can citizens hold Gun Buy Backs? For $200 a piece I could make an interesting collection as long as it isn't all Hi-Points and Loracins. I read in one program in LA someone turned in a rocket launcher (without ammo) and even some fully auto Thompsons showed up.
Those cops are crooks by the way. I'd be supprised if no one took the officer's name and sued him and his department for theft.
SoCalSheriff
12-27-2008, 01:29 AM
I read in one program in LA someone turned in a rocket launcher (without ammo)
Don't know if it was the same incident, but in the one I read about recently, it was not a rocket launcher. It was an empty, non-reloadable TOW anti-tank guided missle LAUNCH TUBE.
Absolutely zero chance of using those again. Hell, I have two of them made into lamps in my living room.
Fëanor
12-27-2008, 08:38 AM
Shaking my head in shame.
The government offers a quid pro quo to the public, and then, when someone delivers the quid, says in his face while confronting him with police force no quo, you got a problem with that, thus using the police power to bully and deprive the PEOPLE. Evil evil evil.
Unbelievable. That's criminal. That descends all the way down below low-down thug.
It's exactly the sort of thing that led to the Revolutionary War.
This practice besmirches the public honor.
An honest dope dealer who gives his customers what they pay for is admirable by comparison.
At least he knows word is bond.I agree. When they ran out of money they needed to shut down the program. However, cops are definitely allowed to lie to criminals.
Those cops are crooks by the way. I'd be supprised if no one took the officer's name and sued him and his department for theft.They are crooks but I don't think anyone has legal recourse against them. I don't think you can sue someone for stealing something that was illegal for you to possess in the first place.
I'm pretty sure that the entire thing could have been a completely legal sting operation if they wanted; they could have arrested everyone who came in carrying an illegal weapon and confiscated the weapon without paying anything.
velobard
12-27-2008, 08:57 AM
I'm pretty sure that the entire thing could have been a completely legal sting operation if they wanted; they could have arrested everyone who came in carrying an illegal weapon and confiscated the weapon without paying anything.
If they do that with a gun buyback program, that's a guaranteed way to assure they've NEVER get guns from criminals. Not that buybacks work anyway, they're a waste of money, but this would slit the throat of any hope of future buybacks.
safetyallday
12-27-2008, 09:38 AM
Off the street? The bad ghettoes of rural long island are a horrible place im sure... Nassau is the last place I am worried about someone having a gun. None of the criminals that have guns are turning theirs in, thus defeating the entire purpose. This is what I was talking about earlier the ignorance involved in the general populations view on citizens having guns. These people turning in their guns arent the criminals who are using them to rob people or commit crimes (which would gain them alot more than 200 dollars through illicit use) so yea it is sad that they won't get their money because the honest people are turning in something during a troubled economic time. Illegal guns is a total joke because the true illegal guns are the ones that won't ever get turned in. :confused:
I think you missed my point. If you possess a firearm illegally, then you have no right to own it in the first place. :confused: And for the record, I am not ignorant to the right to own firearms I have many, many weapons of all types, BUT I own them all legally.;)
I'm pretty sure that the entire thing could have been a completely legal sting operation if they wanted; they could have arrested everyone who came in carrying an illegal weapon and confiscated the weapon without paying anything.
That would be entrapment.
bigislander72
12-27-2008, 12:44 PM
That would be entrapment.
I don't think so. Doesn't entrapment mean when a LEO agency encourages someone to commit a crime that they normally would not have? The people in question already are in possession of a gun, and if it was illegal, they already had it without any pressure from a sting operation.
But I do wonder just how many of the guns turned in are truley "illegal". Couldn't some be legally owned and the owner wants just get rid of them for some quick cash?
This reminds me of that post Katrina fiasco, where people surrendered their legally owned firearms during the disaster with the promise of their return only to be told differently when the time came.
Doesn't entrapment mean when a LEO agency encourages someone to commit a crime that they normally would not have? The people in question already are in possession of a gun, and if it was illegal, they already had it without any pressure from a sting operation.
Suppose I know someone who has an illegal gun, and I take it to turn it in? Or I go out and steal it so that I can get $200? Or I legally own the gun in another state, but want the $200, so I illegally transport it to New York?
More generally, these buy-back programs have to be cleared with local prosecutors. Promising immunity estops law-enforcement authorities from prosecuting you.
dbphotos
12-27-2008, 02:59 PM
why are they ILLEGAL guns again, they arent a bunch of full auto Mac-10's holy crap the media is killing me...
from what i understand they are mostly getting non working antiques as well as a bunch of WWII vintage weapons that should be in collections.
+1
My thought exactly. Sounds like a political opinion of being "illegal" to me. I guess the 2nd Amendment doesn't count in NY?
dbphotos
12-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Every buy bake program I've seen and 2 I've participated in have been jokes. 99% of guns are only worth their scrap metal price and I've never seen a gang banger or armed robber turn in a gun. Most of the time, they can't do ballistics testing on them (or don't) so there is no way to determine if the guns were actually used in crimes. I guess this is a good way to dispose of evidence if you do have a gun that was used in a crime.
Monty Ealerman
12-27-2008, 03:02 PM
Promissory estoppel, yes, entrapment no, except in the unusual circumstances described.
Promissory estoppel, yes, entrapment no, except in the unusual circumstances described.
From New York Jury instructions:
Under our law, it is an affirmative defense that the defendant engaged in the prohibited conduct because:
(1) he/she was induced or encouraged to do so by a public servant, [or by a person acting in cooperation with a public servant,] who was seeking to obtain evidence against him/her for the purpose of criminal prosecution, and
(2) the methods used to obtain the evidence were such as to create a substantial risk that the offense would be committed by a person not otherwise disposed to commit it.
Inducement or encouragement to commit an offense means active inducement or encouragement of a person who is not predisposed to commit the offense. Conduct merely affording a person an opportunity to commit an offense does not constitute entrapment.
velobard
12-27-2008, 06:08 PM
Or I legally own the gun in another state, but want the $200, so I illegally transport it to New York?
You're allowed to transport guns into and through other states for lawful purposes. How would it be illegal to bring a gun to a buyback program from another state?
You're allowed to transport guns into and through other states for lawful purposes.
Not entirely true. You must be entitled to legally possess the firearm in the state that is your destination.
Dinosaur32
12-27-2008, 09:25 PM
NYS has a number of restrictions on the method thast must ne used to legally transport a firearm through the State.
willbird
12-28-2008, 08:36 AM
Not entirely true. You must be entitled to legally possess the firearm in the state that is your destination.
You are only subject to that if your end destination is IN the state in question, IE with an unloaded handgun locked in a case in my trunk I can legally drive across every state in the USA, no local or state gun law applies to me while I am in transit as long as I am transporting legally under the federal law that covers this.
Bill
You are only subject to that if your end destination is IN the state in question, IE with an unloaded handgun locked in a case in my trunk I can legally drive across every state in the USA, no local or state gun law applies to me while I am in transit as long as I am transporting legally under the federal law that covers this.
Bill
We are talking about driving to New York to turn in a handgun, so New York is the destination.
David Hineline
12-28-2008, 09:35 AM
I think you missed my point. If you possess a firearm illegally, then you have no right to own it in the first place. :confused: And for the record, I am not ignorant to the right to own firearms I have many, many weapons of all types, BUT I own them all legally.;)
Untill with the stroke of a lawyers pen they are illegal.
(S)Sgt Elmer
12-28-2008, 10:10 AM
I think you missed my point. If you possess a firearm illegally, then you have no right to own it in the first place. :confused: And for the record, I am not ignorant to the right to own firearms I have many, many weapons of all types, BUT I own them all legally.;)
The only way for you to posess a firearm illegally is if someone decided your rights weren't in fact rights.
I bought hi-cap mags during the last ban, I was a cop so I could. That doesn't make it right. I shouldn't have to be a cop to be able to do something like that, or to buy a dreaded "assault rifle".
safetyallday
12-28-2008, 10:54 AM
Untill with the stroke of a lawyers pen they are illegal.
Sad but true. :(
safetyallday
12-28-2008, 10:56 AM
The only way for you to posess a firearm illegally is if someone decided your rights weren't in fact rights.
I bought hi-cap mags during the last ban, I was a cop so I could. That doesn't make it right. I shouldn't have to be a cop to be able to do something like that, or to buy a dreaded "assault rifle".
Being that I live in Lib-Jersey, I have to take a wait and see approach. I shudder to think of what may be coming down the pike in the next few years.
(S)Sgt Elmer
12-28-2008, 12:11 PM
Being that I live in Lib-Jersey, I have to take a wait and see approach. I shudder to think of what may be coming down the pike in the next few years.
You and me both, my friend. It's gonna get ugly.
Monty Ealerman
12-29-2008, 03:43 PM
Hey DAL,
It's entrapment if the person's from out of state, and came into NY only for the buyback. That too ruins a prosecution for illegal possession of the firearm. For people that are already in illegal possession in the state, it's not entrapment, because no-one working for the State induced them into the illegal possession, but the fact of the promise still estops prosecution.
Regards,
Monty
For people that are already in illegal possession in the state, it's not entrapment, because no-one working for the State induced them into the illegal possession, but the fact of the promise still estops prosecution.
Many people would be induced to steal a firearm, or to buy one illegally, if they could get $200 for it. You cannot assume that the person possessed the firearm before the offer was made, so that the offer did not induce commission of the offense.
Indeed, I would say that it is entirely consistently with the purpose of the program for someone to buy a weapon from a street dealer for $150 with the intention of selling it to the police for $200.
If the police offered above-market prices for illegal drugs, would they be able to prosecute people who turned over drugs for money? I think that an entrapment defense would apply.
velobard
12-29-2008, 05:29 PM
I'm amazed that they're offering $200. Around here they only offered $50, and one friend who was there to dump a couple of Brycos and Jennings saw an older woman turning in a vintage Belgium Browning Hi-Power. :(
ChrisF202
12-29-2008, 06:58 PM
I'm amazed that they're offering $200. Around here they only offered $50, and one friend who was there to dump a couple of Brycos and Jennings saw an older woman turning in a vintage Belgium Browning Hi-Power. :(
Half of the guns being turned in belong in museums, I wonder if these people know how much wealth and history they are holding their hands?
In the picture that Newsday showed last week included a Walther P38 for example. I would like to smack the idiot that sent that to the metal compacter about 1,000 times.
xJKVR6M69x
12-30-2008, 05:59 PM
Half of the guns being turned in belong in museums, I wonder if these people know how much wealth and history they are holding their hands?
In the picture that Newsday showed last week included a Walther P38 for example. I would like to smack the idiot that sent that to the metal compacter about 1,000 times.
Yea just thinking about how many paychecks I would willingly spend on some of the guns that just get smashed into nothing makes me sick... I'm going to have to quit reading this thread...
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