Legality of civilian owning wearing body armor

[vwabbitman]

I work security, sometimes armed, and was not issued a kevlar vest. Also have a ccw. I know with ccw its not advised but for a security guard working armed can i own buy a vest? I have had alot of people ask me why i dont have a vest and i just tell them wasnt issued but i would like to know if i wasnt issued because as a security guard i cant wear one or if the company i work for is just cheap? Basically can i own wear one while working armed or carrying concealed? If yes where is a good place to get a good vest?

Another reason i ask is the security company i have worked for for the last year only issued me a shirt and patches for a jacket i had from a prior job. I had to come up with EVERYTHING else. Have worked armed and unarmed for them. Company i just started working for issued me shirt, pants, windbreaker, rain jacket and winter coat. Havent worked armed for them yet so dont know if they issue vests or not.

[SgtCHP]

Your answer is contained herein:

California Penal Code Section

12370. (a) Any person who has been convicted of a violent felony,
as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 667.5, under the laws of the
United States, the State of California, or any other state,
government, or country, who purchases, owns, or possesses body armor,
as defined by Section 942 of Title 11 of the California Code of
Regulations, except as authorized under subdivision (b), is guilty of
a felony, punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for 16
months, or two or three years.

(b) Any person whose employment, livelihood, or safety is
dependent on the ability to legally possess and use body armor, who
is subject to the prohibition imposed by subdivision (a) due to a
prior violent felony conviction, may file a petition with the chief
of police or county sheriff of the jurisdiction in which he or she
seeks to possess and use the body armor for an exception to this
prohibition. The chief of police or sheriff may reduce or eliminate
the prohibition, impose conditions on reduction or elimination of the
prohibition, or otherwise grant relief from the prohibition as he or
she deems appropriate, based on the following:

(1) A finding that the petitioner is likely to use body armor in a
safe and lawful manner.

(2) A finding that the petitioner has a reasonable need for this
type of protection under the circumstances.

In making its decision, the chief of police or sheriff shall
consider the petitioner's continued employment, the interests of
justice, any relevant evidence, and the totality of the
circumstances. It is the intent of the Legislature that law
enforcement officials exercise broad discretion in fashioning
appropriate relief under this paragraph in cases in which relief is
warranted. However, this paragraph may not be construed to require
law enforcement officials to grant relief to any particular
petitioner. Relief from this prohibition does not relieve any other
person or entity from any liability that might otherwise be imposed.

(c) The chief of police or sheriff shall require, as a condition
of granting an exception under subdivision (b), that the petitioner
agree to maintain on his or her person a certified copy of the law
enforcement official's permission to possess and use body armor,
including any conditions or limitations.

(d) Law enforcement officials who enforce the prohibition
specified in subdivision (a) against a person who has been granted
relief pursuant to subdivision (b), shall be immune from any
liability for false arrest arising from the enforcement of this
subdivision unless the person has in his or her possession a
certified copy of the permission granting the person relief from the
prohibition, as required by subdivision (c). This immunity from
liability does not relieve any person or entity from any other
liability that might otherwise be imposed.

(e) For purposes of this section only, "violent felony" refers to
the specific crimes listed in subdivision (c) of Section 667.5, and
to crimes defined under the applicable laws of the United States or
any other state, government, or country that are reasonably
equivalent to the crimes listed in subdivision (c) of Section 667.5.

[vwabbitman]

Your answer is contained herein:

That would be a no on both... correct? Or a no on ccw and maybe on Armed Security Guard? Penal Code is sometimes so confusing. but i am learning as i go. Is a vest similar to a baton. Illegal for civilians to own but ok for security guards and police officers to own. Also is it the same when transporting. Only from home to work/training and work/training to home.

[avalon42]

No. According to what the Sgt posted, you are only barred from owning or obtaining body armor/vest if you have previously been convicted of a violent felony. The subdivisions just give explanations as to what circumstances a convicted violent felon may be able to own/obtain a vest. I did a quick search in the PC, couldn't find any other relevant sections for civilian usage of a vest.

I know plenty of security guards that own body armor, as well as military MPs. I can't imagine why you would not wear one.

That being said, the legality of body vest can come into play if you are using it in the commission of a crime. (sentence enhancer).

[vwabbitman]

No. According to what the Sgt posted, you are only barred from owning or obtaining body armor/vest if you have previously been convicted of a violent felony. The subdivisions just give explanations as to what circumstances a convicted violent felon may be able to own/obtain a vest. I did a quick search in the PC, couldn't find any other relevant sections for civilian usage of a vest.

I know plenty of security guards that own body armor, as well as military MPs. I can't imagine why you would not wear one.

That being said, the legality of body vest can come into play if you are using it in the commission of a crime. (sentence enhancer).

Ok thats what i thought but you know how penal codes can be weird. only reason i dont have one is i was not issued one and i thought it was weird/dumb that i work armed and dont have a vest like police officers do.

I wouldnt wear one off duty because i have been told that can be considered premeditaion or whatever the correct word is.

Thank you for clearing up my confusion. I will be getting a vest as soon as possible.

With that where would be a good place to get a vest?

[avalon42]

Ok thats what i thought but you know how penal codes can be weird. only reason i dont have one is i was not issued one and i thought it was weird/dumb that i work armed and dont have a vest like police officers do.

I wouldnt wear one off duty because i have been told that can be considered premeditaion or whatever the correct word is.

Thank you for clearing up my confusion. I will be getting a vest as soon as possible.

With that where would be a good place to get a vest?

Before buying, I would check with your security company to see if they want you wearing armor (most would want you to, but you would have buy your own vest).

Any decent uniform shop (such as Galls) will carry or can order them. They will order them according to your measurements (they take 3 measurements of your torso). If you are going to get one, think about the different levels of vest that you can order.

Some officers wear off-duty, others don't. Logically, you would wear it as high-risk (a uniform is a target, no doubt about that). Wearing one 24/7 is not illegal, but can be used as reasonable suspicion to detain you in addition to other circumstances. California case law has shown that wearing body armor before or during the commission of the crime falls under general intent, not specific (meaning they don't have to prove your premeditation).

[ownerop]

Yes you can own it and use it. Only felon cannot.

[vwabbitman]

Ok last questions....

what would be the best vest to get. Price and functionality wise. Also what is the difference between all the levels. As far as i know there is levels, I, II, III and IIIA. Also what are pros and cons of each level and soft and hard trauma plates?

[Fuzz]

You are going to get many, many different answers based on what people are issued, what type of work they do, etc. Do a quick search of some of the vest companies and they will usually give a breakdown of the different levels and what they "may" protect you against.



EDIT: Here is a page I found from a quick 10 second search on the internet....I'm sure you may find many others.
This is NOT the brand my department uses, but it gives you a listing of the ratings and some other info.

http://www.pointblankarmor.com/101.asp

[barkalot]

Just as a side note (you may already know this)...

You mentioned having a CCW. In CA, I believe that you are prohibited from carrying concealed while working as a uniformed security guard. Your post seemed to indicate it just wasn't "advisable", when in fact it's illegal.

Additionally, in order to carry a firearm while working as a uniformed security guard you must obtain a separate license to do so. This would be in addition to your guard card.

Here's a link to some information:

http://www.bsis.ca.gov/

[ownerop]

Just as a side note (you may already know this)...

You mentioned having a CCW. In CA, I believe that you are prohibited from carrying concealed while working as a uniformed security guard. Your post seemed to indicate it just wasn't "advisable", when in fact it's illegal.

Additionally, in order to carry a firearm while working as a uniformed security guard you must obtain a separate license to do so. This would be in addition to your guard card.

Here's a link to some information:

http://www.bsis.ca.gov/


There is nothing illegal carrying concealed with a CCW as a security guard, however you need a guard card and an exposed firearms license to carry a weapon exposed as a security guard. This also applies to off duty police officers working security off duty. You might also want to check with the agency that issued you the CCW, they may prohibit you from carrying your CCW weapon while working as a security guard, while it's not illegal they may have a policy against it and they can pull your permit.

[vwabbitman]

I have guard card, firearms, baton, chemical weapons, and tazer/stun gun and carry all while working armed. I dont have a tazer yet but have 500,000 volt stun gun which works well but i still want a tazer so i dont have to get right next to someone to shock the holy hell out of them. Unarmed i have baton pepper spray and stun gun. My boss said i could carry concealed on the job but i have had local officers tell me no so i dont conceal while on the job. Hell my boss even said when working undercover security i can carry concealed. I know for a fact i cant while undercover. Asked a BSIS instructor about that and he said NO.

My ccw weapon is also the same i carry on the job. Its a Glock 23 and works great for on duty and concealed. concealed is a little difficult to do but this time of year its easy because i always have a big jacket on so it still works. I want to get a... i think..... 27(mini .40) for concealed. Just gotta wait for tax return. I know i can only carry one firearm while working security but can carry i think three with ccw but not on the job. Only three weapons allowed on ccw permit(in Humboldt County not sure about the rest of Cali) and i was told i can carry all three at the same time just not while working security.

[avalon42]

There is nothing illegal carrying concealed with a CCW as a security guard, however you need a guard card and an exposed firearms license to carry a weapon exposed as a security guard. This also applies to off duty police officers working security off duty. You might also want to check with the agency that issued you the CCW, they may prohibit you from carrying your CCW weapon while working as a security guard, while it's not illegal they may have a policy against it and they can pull your permit.

I think what ownerop was trying to say was that it is illegal to carry concealed as a security officer without a CCW permit, but carrying exposed would fall under your BSIS firearms permit. Source: http://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/guardgd.pdf Page 6-8.

OP, your original "good cause" reason you used on your CCW application (and its subsequent approval) must encompass your functions as a security guard. If not, I would at least get a follow-up letter in writing with the agency that issued you the CCW that it is permissible.

Just having your boss say it's ok is incorrect; get it in writing. Murphy's Law, watch your six. :cool:

All of California permits are the same, the list only allows 3 authorized handguns at a time.

[vwabbitman]

I dont conceal while on duty. point blank dont do it. off duty i have it concealed unless im going somewhere where i cant have it like a casino or school. Then it goes in a lock box in my trunk. Only me and my fiance know which box it is.

[avalon42]

I dont conceal while on duty. point blank dont do it. off duty i have it concealed unless im going somewhere where i cant have it like a casino or school. Then it goes in a lock box in my trunk. Only me and my fiance know which box it is.

Awesome. Best policy overall.

[barkalot]

There is nothing illegal carrying concealed with a CCW as a security guard, however you need a guard card and an exposed firearms license to carry a weapon exposed as a security guard. This also applies to off duty police officers working security off duty. You might also want to check with the agency that issued you the CCW, they may prohibit you from carrying your CCW weapon while working as a security guard, while it's not illegal they may have a policy against it and they can pull your permit.

My mistake; I guess I should have finished reading the sentence on the BSIS web site.

:o

[Bosss Hog]

Why not lose the secruity job ,since their cheap and "you had to buy everything", and get on as the real deal? Then you don't have to worry about packin heat!

[vwabbitman]

Why not lose the secruity job ,since their cheap and "you had to buy everything", and get on as the real deal? Then you don't have to worry about packin heat!

Working on that Bosss. Applied for Corrections Sheriff Deputy Recruit and passed written for correction but not recruit. Im gonna work corrections for a few years and then go through the academy and out on the street. I want as much experience under my belt before i get on the street. Have oral for correctinos on January 13-14. Gotta call and make an appointment on one of those two days. But first i gotta know my schedule for that week. should know tomorrow.

[92_chp]

Why do you need a kevlar vest? What type of security are you working?

[ownerop]

Why do you need a kevlar vest? What type of security are you working?


I don't think the type of security matters, he is legally allowed to wear it and if he feels safer wearing a vest, then more power to him. Security Guards are often targeted first when a robbery takes place and wearing a vest is a good idea.

[vwabbitman]

I don't think the type of security matters, he is legally allowed to wear it and if he feels safer wearing a vest, then more power to him. Security Guards are often targeted first when a robbery takes place and wearing a vest is a good idea.

Well take the words out of my mouth. Was gonna say that. Plus i do work armed and i think its dumb to work armed with no vest. ALL law enforcement here wears vests.

[CATRSD]

Well take the words out of my mouth. Was gonna say that. Plus i do work armed and i think its dumb to work armed with no vest. ALL law enforcement here wears vests.

Yeah, just cause law enforcement does certain things doesnt mean "we" can do it.
I agree that if you work armed you should wear a vest.

I do, I don't see a reason why not, but then again like always there are the guys out there that carry a gun and decide not to wear a vest. It's just about preference and choice.

Some guys here aren't armed and they are required to wear vest at all times.

[CATRSD]

I have guard card, firearms, baton, chemical weapons, and tazer/stun gun and carry all while working armed. I dont have a tazer yet but have 500,000 volt stun gun which works well but i still want a tazer so i dont have to get right next to someone to shock the holy hell out of them. Unarmed i have baton pepper spray and stun gun. My boss said i could carry concealed on the job but i have had local officers tell me no so i dont conceal while on the job. Hell my boss even said when working undercover security i can carry concealed. I know for a fact i cant while undercover. Asked a BSIS instructor about that and he said NO.

My ccw weapon is also the same i carry on the job. Its a Glock 23 and works great for on duty and concealed. concealed is a little difficult to do but this time of year its easy because i always have a big jacket on so it still works. I want to get a... i think..... 27(mini .40) for concealed. Just gotta wait for tax return. I know i can only carry one firearm while working security but can carry i think three with ccw but not on the job. Only three weapons allowed on ccw permit(in Humboldt County not sure about the rest of Cali) and i was told i can carry all three at the same time just not while working security.

I'm just curious, but why do you have a ccw being security?.

[CATRSD]

Wearing one 24/7 is not illegal, but can be used as reasonable suspicion to detain you in addition to other circumstances.

Ha, thats true especially when you're doing PC, and you fit in very well with the crowd and PD rolls by and you get your cover blown because PD is about to conduct a cavity search on you because of the vest he noticed...

Then everyone in the crowd is :eek:

[vwabbitman]

I'm just curious, but why do you have a ccw being security?.

I got it a few months before guard card.

My reasoning for getting it was my parents are both physically disabled(dads in a wheel chair due to broken back and mom has ms) and I go to 'the city'(we live in the out skirts of a small town half hour away from a bigger city) to get stuff and I also go to the city by my self and would like to be able to protect myself and my parents.

Now i have a fiance and almost year old son(not actually my son but im more of a dad than hes biological father) and want to be able to protect them. Her and i both feel much safer that i have it. I even took her to the range once and had her shoot a few rounds. Other than smacking herself in the face firing the first round she did good and i feel good having her able to use my gun if im incapacitated. He will learn to shoot my gun when he is old enough(is three to young to shoot a .40cal Glock 23?)


Like the saying says, 'I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.' Also there is, 'I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.'

[barkalot]

I don't think the type of security matters, he is legally allowed to wear it and if he feels safer wearing a vest, then more power to him. Security Guards are often targeted first when a robbery takes place and wearing a vest is a good idea.

I am currently out of LE, but have considered wearing body armor on ride-a-longs. If it all hits the fan, is a perp going to care who's who in a shoot out?

I didn't for fear of looking like a wannabe, but I guess being seen that way is better than being dead.

[gonzo1510]

That's a bit different than going about your day to day life running errands wearing armor or while working security. I wore mine when I've been a ride-alongs provided the agency allowed or required it.

[vwabbitman]

Just like ownerop said if somethings gonna go down they are gonna go after the person in the 'cop' uniform(people dont actually know the difference between cops and security). 9 times outta 10 i get either get asked if im a cop or asked about penal codes. I just tell them im just a security guard. If you have questions about security, like where to get guard card or job, then i can answer. if you have questions about law enforcement go find a leo.

Day to day i wouldnt wear it. On the job depends on if im armed or not. If armed yes, if not depends on post orders. on ride alongs... i should ask on my next one.

[lionheartednyhc]

I am currently out of LE, but have considered wearing body armor on ride-a-longs. If it all hits the fan, is a perp going to care who's who in a shoot out?

I didn't for fear of looking like a wannabe, but I guess being seen that way is better than being dead.

I have been on 5 ride alongs, and only on the last one I went did I get issued body armor (and they had to search for one for me, which ended up being about 2 sizes to small)