Warehouse searches...

[Blue_Chameleon]

I recently went to an alarm call at a warehouse. The primary officer, who was just released off of FTO not too long ago, arrived first and I showed up shortly after with my FTO.

The lady who owned the property was alerted and she came to the warehouse with her keys and told us that nobody should be inside. The three of us went inside and because it was dark, we had to use our flashlights. The primary officer and myself were searching while my FTO was casually walking behind us with his hands in his pockets (which I found disturbing).

We eventually checked all offices and ended up in the main warehouse. It was pitch black and as we were walking tactically through the warehouse, I hear this big metal snapping sound. The lights above me were buzzing and it eventually glowed and illuminated the warehouse. It turns out that my FTO had turned on the lights.

Was that a good thing on the FTO's part? Sure...it illuminated the place for us to see without the aid of the flashlight but I would think that some kind of officer safety is involved. What do you think?

[Joseph]

I was on a call in an IBM building years ago and something like that happened. We can laugh about it now but it could have been deadly. We were going through the building and all the lights went on. There was this life size cardboard likeness of a boy scout standing in the hallway. One guy pulled out his gun and shot the cardboard boy scout through the heart.

[Vtfuzz]

Having gone through two academys I was taught building clearing two different ways....with lights on, with lights out and flashlights intermittent.

I personally prefer searching with as many lights on as possible. 99% of the time the bad guy knows your coming anyways. I know there are pros and cons to both, but the better I can see, the better I can stay alive. I use all the elementary tactics such as "slicing the pie", and finding cover and concealment, and it works well for me.

To each his own though, I never knock something that is safe, effective, and gets the job done!

[KenM]

I prefer to turn on all the lights. As stated before, the bad guy knows you're coming anyway. My thought is that it's better to light it up so I can see him better.

[Blue_Chameleon]

Yeah...that does make sense to have more lighting to see better and clearer. Besides, we were yelling out to "them" that the police were here.

The academy I went to taught us to use flashlights only...continiously on or flashing the light only when needed. Which was why I thought the warehouse lighting was a bit unusual for me.

[Vtfuzz]

Blue, the only part I don't agree with on what your FTO did was turning the lights on without telling you and letting you take cover.....thats not cool and could get someone hurt! :mad:

[Blue_Chameleon]

Ksfuzz...yes, I can definitely understand that.

There are several issues that I have with this FTO though...not only because of what happened at the warehouse but with other various issues that happened in the past few weeks. I think I am going to request a different FTO. He's been a cop for 5 years, but has 6 months experience as an FTO.

[SpecOpsWarrior]

Ditto to what the other guys said. I prefer lights on.

And judging from what you have posted here your FTO needs to go back and repeat the FTO phase himself.

Turning the lights on without giving you prior warning was pretty stupid, I'm just wondering why he didnt pop smoke to really show your position. :rolleyes:

"The primary officer and myself were searching while my FTO was casually walking behind us with his hands in his pockets (which I found disturbing)."

This disturbes me just as bad as the lights, apparently this guy has become pretty relaxed. I'm just wondering if he is like the rest of us and answers several bogus alarm calls nightly, even if that is the case you dont walk around with your hands in your pockets while clearing a building.

Ask to be placed with a new FTO because your not learning the right way to do things and it sounds like this guy is going to get someone hurt or killed. But be fore warned, if the powers that be dont turn you over to a new FTO your gonna pay hell with this one.

[Sparky]

First off, I don't creep around buildings with my gun in my hand unless I am fairly certain that I am going to need it. In the rather unlikely event that you DO find someone hiding in a warehouse, it is much more likely that you will need to use your hands to control the perp before you shoot him.

Unless you are very likely going to need to shoot someone or cover another officer, that weapon is taking up at least one of your hands.

Remember that your primary and most powerful weapon is your BRAIN! Fight SMART not HARD!

On a warehouse alarm, the first thing I did was check for signs of forced entry. Forced entry indicates a pretty high sense of awareness and caution.

An open door without signs of forced entry after closing is probably just an oversight by whoever left last. If anyone IS in there it is most likely to be an employee. It is remotely possible that it is an employee related theft (one guy leaving door open for another to sneak in after work). Or there could possibly be some bum that happened upon it and wandered in (but that's pretty unlikely).

In your first post, it sounded like there was no signs of forced entry or open doors. In fact, the keyholder had to give you access.

If I recall correctly, you just got out of the academy. Nowadays they seem to be drilling ambushes and shooting scenarios into the heads of recruits. Believe it or not, most people that you pull over DO NOT try to kill you, and most warehouses do not contain armed psychotic killers lying in wait.

You should always be cautious and alert because you really do never know what is going on, however, there's no need to grab the shotgun and mutter "hut hut hut hut hut" as you jump and hop around like some sort of disco commando either.

Your FTO wasn't setting a good example for you by strolling around with his hands in his pockets even if there were no indicators of anyone being inside.

But by the same token, without signs of forced entry or any other signs of evildoers, I don't see a point in sneaking around like a super ninja either. I mean if there is THAT much of a threat, then where is the SWAT Team?

Experience or your "Street Degree" will serve to guide you in the future. In the meantime, err on the side of caution and safety.

Alot of guys (like maybe your FTO) tend to get a little burned out and relax TOO much which can get them and other officers hurt. What I strive for has always been a "happy medium".

I'm going to say that you should stick with your current FTO. I can't see any good that will come from a rookie complaining about a senior officer even if the rookie IS right.

If you know enough to know what he is doing wrong tactically, then you're doing alright in that area.

Stick with him and don't write him off. I had some burnout training officers too who I resented. Looking back now, I realize that I still could've learned some things from them. (In some cases I did, but just didn't realize it until later!)

[DMS 525]

One of my first warehouse searches scared the hell right out of me. We found an open door, so we did a careful search.
What was in this warehouse was appliances. As I was walking through this valley of boxes, I realized they were refrigerators stacked 4 high. I suddenly realized, too, that a burglar could be up on top of these refrigerators, and send one slamming down on top of me! :eek:
I saw the upper level, where the offices were, so I went up there, and did a scan of the entire warehouse.
That place was a regular alarm trip. It was right under a main approach to the airport, so noise and vibration set the alarm off quite a bit. However, every time I went there, I always went up to the top of the the catwalk first.

Always look up! And think to yourself,"If I was a burglar, where could I hide?" Would suprise the hell out of you! I've caught them in closets, under desks, in cupboards, under beds, and one even crawled inside a large chest freezer! I was tempted to sit on the lid for a few minutes, to cool him off!

[spurlock]

I've been to several tactical schools and let me just say, while the thought of searching a warehouse, house, etc... may sound exciting, it is a no win situation. The only effective way to search a building is to have a K9 or a SWAT team! No matter what you do, the suspect always has the advantage inside a building. The stuff they teach you in the academy will get you hurt or killed! There are times that you will have to search a building on alarms, etc... Point being, the suspect inside has the advantage due to concealment. If you go around with your flashlight on, he knows exactly where you are! Same goes for calling out Police! Your FTO should've called you back to his position before he turned on the lights and exposed you, but he did add a new light to the subject! It's a scary thought, going into a building and not knowing the layout of the inside and all of the possible places where you can be ambushed from. We, like most depts. don't have access to a K9 or a SWAT team and that makes it even more dangerous! You may have to do like myself and think of self preservation. Save up a little money and buy yourself a good night vision scope or binocs! It's worth it in the long run. You can eliminate the flashlight and the overhead lights until you can get a good look at the inside of the building you're about to search!

;)Take care of yourself and your fellow officers!

[ateamer]

Don't ask for a new FTO. It will brand you as a malcontent who doesn't accept training and evaluation. Part of the evaluation is how well you accept new situations and critical evals.

If an FTO doing things differently than they did in the academy causes this much conflict, you are in for a very stressful career. Do what the FTOs want to get good evals. It's only for four months out of 30 years.

Remember: Semper Gumby-Always Flexible

[Plaso]

I would also like having the lights on when doing the search. At least it puts you on equal ground with the bad guy.

As far as giving you notice that he was going to turn them on, well lets face it with the two of you walking around a dark building with flashlights glowing I would bet any bad guys would already know where your at! So taking cover when the lights went on is pretty much a moot point, right!

Actually my preferred method is to let the dogs go in and search.

One more point to ponder, was the call you responded to a ringer or silent alarm and had it reset? That can tell you alot, just don't let it compromise officer safety!!!!!!!
:eek:

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: Plaso ]

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: Plaso ]