Where is the line drawn

[Motivator]

THANKS ALL!!!

MOTIVATOR

[This message has been edited by Motivator (edited 11-06-2000).]

[AussieCop]

From an Australian perspective...
Flipping the birdie is not an offence/crime/misdemeanour here. Our courts would laugh at any police officer attempting to pursue a case since the physical gesture is non-violent and any offence taken by the recipient would be of a very minor nature. It is viewed as similar to a co-worker or peer raising their voice to stress a point of view.

Some years ago, one of my colleagues called for back up in dealing with a group of about 30 juveniles. We arrived and he tells me that he wanted to lock up at least half a dozen to get some respect. I asked what offence was committed, to which he told me they were calling out "dogs" and "pigs", and would then run away into the dark. This had been going on for some weeks with police chasing the juveniles without catching any of them. This would go on until 4 and 5 in the morning. My viewpoint was that it was a game to the juveniles who were doing nothing more than hanging out together in a dark obscure park. If an offence had been committed, it was soley due to a police presence. Rather than play their game and chase them around, I suggested we just ignore them and stay away from the park unless we were called to an actual incident.
The result - the juveniles lost interest in hanging around the park and went home each night shortly after midnight.

Our departments view point is that police do not have to react. Sometimes our reaction can escalate a very minor issue. In January this year, my partner decided to arrest a guy after he called out "You F**kheads". The result after the fight with 20 of his mates were me being hit in the head with a boot, my partner kicked in the groin and legs, hit in the head with a bottle... the backup arrived under a hail of stones, bottles and sticks. The question is.... "is it worth it?"
When I take rookies out, my first words are this...... "Our goal this shift and all others when you work with me is to go home safe and not having embarrassed yourself or me. Nothing else matters".

It is an unfortunate part of our job that we will get called names, treated with disrespect and so on. It is the uniform they disrespect, not the wearer. Never take things personal.

A proverb of wisdom "It take a tough man to engage a fight, but a wise man knows when not to".

[Don]

Motivator,

I have to echo a lot of what Aussiecop is telling you. One thing to remember is that YOU are the cop. Now you are probably fairly young and your testosterone level is probably fairly high. Nevertheless, hopefully you are also mature enough to handle your emotions or you would not be in this job.

You do not have a crime here. What you do have is a smart mouth (or finger http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) on a punk. Big deal. Shine it on. As I said, it is not a crime and it is not worth trying to escalate something into a big deal. Remember that the time will probably come when you will have just cause to hook this person up. You may never know that it is the same guy who flipped you off two years ago, but he will know it.

Your statement: The thing is is not only does the community not respect us, they are not in the least afraid of consequence or us. bothers me a lot.

Do not expect people to be afraid of you. It is hard enough to get the respect from the public without trying to make them fear you.

Remember you are a PEACE OFFICER, not a barroom brawler.

Oh yeah, one other thing. You will find that the fifty-pound badge that you got out of the academy with, will become a lot lighter each time you get your *** kicked.

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Never make fun of another mans wife, religion or dog, (not necessarily in that order)
6P1 (retired)

[This message has been edited by Don (edited 10-09-2000).]

[Ghetto Cop]

F*** em all. If the jail is full and they wont take any more, why are you out looking for more?
If you are being flipped off by some juveniles and it really bothers you, you can do something about it. You have to be quick witted and have some style or it will backfire on you and you will look like a real tool. Pick one in the crowd, preferably the one who flipped you off, and verbally bust on him. It is best if you make some disparaging remark about his physical appearance (Dumbo like ears, dresses like he got his clothes off a crack head etc.) or bust on his mother. Make the remark short and sweet. Its good to do it over the PA system. his friends will laugh at him.If you are not quick with trading insults do not try this.
Actually, you probably should not do this at all. You might get in trouble. If you are a rookie then you are probably on probation. You know what you can and can not do.
Insulting the citizenry is probably not considered good community oriented policing. All in all, what a couple of scrotes say isn't worth the hassle. So I say f*** em.I'll be hanging out at the firehouse.

[Motivator]

THANKS!>

[This message has been edited by Motivator (edited 11-06-2000).]

[tcsd1236]

I think it should be like water off a duck; not even something to worry about. So some lowlife wants to look cool in front of his bro's. Big deal. Like someone said above, pop his bubble somehow to make him look like a real idiot, or drive away content in the belief that some day, what goes around comes around; he'll be in the back of your car and you can get the last laugh.

[GDenman]

Times have certainly changed. We don't get the respect we should (in most cases), but then again, neither do teachers, or parents, or the elderly, etc.

I had a school bus go by me as I directed traffic for their football game & one of the kids started hollaring out the window, "Pig, pig". So I hollared back, "Student, student". It was completely senseless but the other kids laughed & that was that.

I got fired from my last department because of being called names. In 1970 there was a "hippie" girl that had a miscarriage & I was the responding EMT. I helped her & got her to the hospital. Several weeks later I was off-duty at the laundrymat with my wife when the girl & her "hippie" boyfriend came in. She introduced me to him & his words were, "So you're one of the local pigs, huh?" It was a slang term used by his culture & I did not find it offensive. I should say it was a slang term used by OUR generation since I was only 19 at the time & a part of his generation. Well, somehow the word of this meeting got back to the Chief who was old-world in his thinking. He called me in & demanded that I swear out a warrant for Disorderly Conduct on the boy. I refused to do so & was fired for disobeying a direct order. So I came here & will have 29 years next week. Probably one of the best things that could have happened but it still stings a little to have been fired.

Just remember, sticks & stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

[This message has been edited by GDenman (edited 10-19-2000).]

[tcsd1236]

GDenman:
That story is a classic; sorry you had to go through that experience though. Geez, and some cops wonder why we need unions!

[The Cynic]

This only works if you know who the dirtbag is that flipped you the bird. I had a scrote that I had arrested a few months prior for a drug offense do it to me. I slowed down and yelled to him "Hey Jeremy thanks for the info, we seized a ton dope thanks to you." His buddies all got the deer in the headlights look and then all turned on him at once. Hopefully I caused him a little grief.

[Don]

Motivator,

Hope I did not offend you, there was none intended. I do know what you mean, now that you explained it a little differently. I can also remember as a kid . . .

As to

[Motivator]

Thanks For All the Input guys/gals.

[This message has been edited by Motivator (edited 11-06-2000).]

[TIGGY]

I see that you choose to use "Motivator" as a screen name. First of all it is NOT against the law to flip you the bird. I think that has been told to you enough. Second of all your numbero uno goal is to make it home at the end of the shift. The law violators will be there when you come back on duty. No need to rush.

If you want to "motivate", the next time the kid gives you the one finger wave, try this:
Check out with the kid and ask him very politely how his day is going? Get to know him. Find out his hobbies. Maybe this "JUV" has a name. Find that out too. Maybe he likes to play sports, but has no motivation 'cause his drunk father walked out on his family and his mother is in jail. You may not know this 'cause you never asked him before and he is to embaressed to talk about it. He may be #$%&*! at the world and all you are looking for is a reason to arrest him. When you get him away from his friends he may tell you he would like to play football but can't find the "motivation" because of his home enviroment. So get his name and address and have your local Police Athletic Leauge director get in touch with this kid. Keep up with his progress, visit him regulary. Just be persistent in keeping up with his progress. Oh did I forget to say,(((((BE PERSISTENT))))) You just may become a mentor for him. Don't look for excuses for yourself not to help this kid. Help HIM avoid making excuses why he "CAN'T" be a good kid.

I've been a street cop my whole career and I've learned empathy is your best tool. Beats I have worked sound a lot like yours. Try to find the good in these "JUVS." I know when I was new to this career I looked for excuses not to get to know the people in my beat. Like "I dont have the time" "They hate cops so why bother?" They don't have to become drinkin' buddies in your off time. I am not saying that you have to sacrifice being sound tacticaly or being fair in regards to enforcing the law. YOU can always stay friendly. Don't be suprised if an arrested party thanks you as you leave the jail, if you remeber to empathise. Today's criminal maybe your snich one day. The citizens in your beat are a treasure chest of information.

Don't get me wrong. If this kid violates the law, act accordingly. Remember we as peace officers earn the respect of the citizens we serve, we do not demand it. Your personal reputation as a cop makes or breaks your career. A good book for reading is "Verbal Judo" Can't remember who wrote it, but he was a street cop. As a matter of fact, my Dept implements this book into a training session for all sworn personnel.

So when you look in the mirror and ask yourself what good you have done lately? Think of the finger waver and how you could change his life for the better. You may just be able to "motivate" him.

[Jim]

Originally posted by TIGGY:
If you want to "motivate", the next time the kid gives you the one finger wave, try this:
Check out with the kid and ask him very politely how his day is going?

That's a great idea Tig. In fact, that's a great post. You must be a great cop.

If some kid flips you the bird, pull right over, get out of your cruiser with a friendly smile on your face, and act like you're his pal (of course, let the dispatcher know where you are, in case something goes wrong). Make it clear to everyone that you stopped because the kid "waved" to you. Be really, really nice and friendly. Ask everyone their first names, ask them all where they live. Ask them if they're going to school, working, playing sports, 'chillin' or whatever. Stay as long as you can.

If these kids are nothing but punks, they are all going to be pretty ****ed off that their pal "invited" you over for a visit. They'll probably be embarrassed that everyone will see them hanging out with a friendly cop. They'll probably leave the corner to avoid your friendly questions. That kid will never give a cop the finger again, that's for sure.

But it's possible that you might have a real conversation with a few of them. Remember as many names as you can. Whenever you drive by them, give them a friendly wave and call them by name.

I worked a pretty rough housing project for many of my earlier years. By the time I left, almost all the gang bangers, even the bad ones, would smile and wave or nod when I drove past. This is despite the fact that I had locked up almost every single one of them at least once over the years. As a matter of fact, locking up someone was one of my favorite ways to show these kids that I was not such a bad guy. I treated them with respect, and explained to them that it was nothing personal.

One day I drove up to a group on one of my corners and got some friendly nods, but one new kid whom I had recently arrested gave me a scowl and spit on the ground. I acted hurt and asked him why he was taking it personal. He told me that I had planted those drugs on him. The other kids in the group looked at him like he had claimed to see a flying saucer. They told him he was full of crap, that I would never do that.

A lot of the other cops would role their eyes and shake their heads when they heard me giving lectures to these kids. Of course, they never seem to listen. It never seems to make a difference.

One day one of these kids came up to my cruiser and told me he had recently got out of jail after doing six months on a case I had got him on. He said he had been looking for me since he got out. He thanked me for arresting him http://www.officer.com/ubb/eek.gif, and told me he was thinking about the things I had said for the past six months. He said he had sworn off drugs, and was moving out of the projects to be with his baby's mother. He said he wanted to do the right thing for his baby daughter, and he had gotten a job as a mechanic. I was thrilled, but I was also frustrated that I could not remember what I had said to him. At the time, I couldn't remember the arrest or even his name. Every once in a while after that, he would flag me down or pull up beside me in his car to tell me how he was doing. He seemed to want me to know that he was still doing well and had stayed straight, as if my approval was important to him. I suppose if no one else ever listens to me for the rest of my life, Jose and his little girl will always be better off because of something I said. Whatever it was.

[FLLawdog]

That's a great idea Tig. In fact, that's a great post. You must be a great cop.

WHEW!!! You don't know Tiggy, do you? http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

No, just had to get a jab in on him. I've known Tigster for what, about 4 years now? He's all that. A great cop and a smart person, and yes, he practices what he preaches. Damn, I'm saying that with no ulterior motive http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I guess it comes from similar backgrounds and one hell of a mutual supervisor, but we're on the same line of thinking with this one.


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FLLawdog
"Never try to teach a pig to sing...it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

[TIGGY]

FllawK-9 , Are u worried I may be A-18 one day? Naw dawg, just pulling your collar. I believe we have scared away Mr. Motivator. It is so funny to see how us cops think alike no matter where we work. Be safe out there guys/gals!!!!

[Sparky]

All good advice here.

Back when Sparky wore a uniform and trolled for scrotes and ran across this type of situation...I repeated my Holy mantra,

"I get paid by the hour.... I get paid by the hour.... I get paid by the hour."

It's really very Zen. You have to BE the paycheck. Visualize the log sheet.

But seriously folks....

Guy flips off a squad car....big deal. Sometimes they shoot at squad cars, too. And set them on fire. Don't take that personally either.

Now, if the guy KNOWS you and flips YOU off on purpose knowing it's YOU.....well, then you might need to break bad a little.

...but just a little. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

If it's kids and you really want to put in the OT and try to make a difference, then I liked the idea of trying to connect with the kid....going over and killing him by being nice!! Subtle. I like it. But I also know that it won't always be a good idea depending on who you are dealing with.

No matter what.....you got better things to worry about. Don't sweat the small stuff. And it is ALL small stuff.

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-Sparky

[KenM]

Motivator,
Come to Texas. It's still a crime to flip the bird. DOC by Gesture. I know I'll get the messages about that court decision w/the turd riding by the abortion clinic flipping everyone off and he got out of the charge, but it doesn't sound like it applies in your situation. Hook 'em up, I would.

Nothing stops the hooting and hollering like dragging some a-hole away from his buddies by the ear.

In my opinion every time someone turns a blind eye or a deaf ear they make it harder for the next guy.

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"If you let your head get too big it'll break your neck" Elvis Presley

[Ghetto Cop]

If you are compelled to stop and the scrote runs off, don't chase him. He probably has some of his buddies around. You can punish the many for the actions of a few. I know this sounds petty, it can be it just depends on the situation. If you are new they coyuld be testing you and you can not let them punk you out(I really nead to start riding nicer areas). Chances are his cohorts are probably in violation of some law or another. My favorite is obstructing highway/passageway. I just write his friends for his actions and let them know who got them this charge. I have issued them citations and told them if dude comes back in the next ten minutes, I will tear up the citations. Dude usually comes back. Be careful about that though sometimes dude comes back a little disheveled (oops). Tear up the citations and they know you are good on your word as well as tough, but fair.
All of the above posts on what to do are good sugestions. Bottom line there are no best ways of dealing with that situation. The important thing is not to go ballistic and show a reaction. It is a head game and you must win it or you will have a tough time ahead of you. Remember, you are being tested all the time- don't scew it up.
Stay safe.

[GDenman]

Couple of war stories, but they go with the subject:

Had a guy tell me one time that he was with a group of kids back in high school standing around when a cop passed by. One of the kids hollared an obscenity at the cop. The cop turned around & came back to the group. When he got out of the car he walked right up to the kid who had yelled & started getting on his case. The guy told me that everybody was dumbstruck because the officer had pegged the right one without having seen who yelled & from then on no one wanted to yell at a cop because they thought he would probably know who did it.

One night right at the end of the shift, I passed by a crowded parking lot with about 40-50 teens & young adults hanging around. One guy was leaned up against the side of the building peeing in plain sight of the roadway. Knowing all my fellow officers were already in the station, I stopped anyway to have a talk with the guy. Turns out he was sloppy drunk so I placed him under arrest & take him to my unit. Just as I was getting to the unit I heard a guy yelling & a string of obscenities. I glanced back at the crowd & several of them were holding on to a guy who was trying to jerk loose & yelling that he was going to kick my ___. I asked the guy I was arresting who it was & he said it was his brother. I went ahead & put my arrest in the unit & called in for backup. Knowing it was going to take them a little while to get there, I figured I would do the tough, "Bogart" routine. I slid my Kel-light from its metal ring on my belt & started walking toward the crowd hollaring "Okay, who wants a piece of me?" Everyone let go of the guy's brother & started backing away. The really amazing part was...so was the guy's brother. He started stammering out an apology but I had him on the ropes & continued telling him, "No, you wanted to fight so come on." He started apologizing even more but by now was standing by himself in the middle of the parking lot. The calvary arrived about this time so we arrested the brother for Disorderly Conduct & PI & broke up the crowd. It was a gamble but it worked!

[Motivator]

Motivator

[This message has been edited by Motivator (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Sparky]

Jeez Motivator! Is that badge a little heavy today?

You started this thread asking for advice and you got it. If you didn't like it, you didn't have to take it.

What works for Tig where he's at may not work for you where you are at. No prob, but you don't have to resort to insulting people whose 'motivation' was to try to help you with some input which YOU requested.

Tig may be a little 'pie in the sky' for your liking and that's okay. But I didn't see any need for going off like you just did.

If you did feel like going off...just absolutly felt the urge to purge...then the forum most certainly isn't the place for name calling and insults.

I notice that you call your self a "birdlauncher" in your profile....wassupwidat??

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-Sparky

[Niteshift]

Gotta go with Sparky on this one motivator....your tirade was uncalled for. You asked for an opinion and got one. What's the big deal. If you don't like his approach, don't use it. I tell trainees that I don't want them to be a carbon copy of me. They will find things I do thet they like and dislike. Gather approaches from a bunch of officers and form your own style.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[TIGGY]

My comments were not intended to offend you.
You came to this forum page asking for advise and you got it. Honestly Motivator, if my comments upset you that much maybe you need a vaction. My technique has personally worked once or maybe twice. It may not be your "style" but I was merely trying to give you some advise about how to fine tune your "technique" by combining several different styles of differnet officers. A technique you may haved learned in FTO. To be quite frank with you, your last post worries me. Are you taking this career too personal? Is that it? Remember, I AM on YOUR side. I am cop also. The world is not against you. That is the impression I am getting of you at this point. I would be somewhat frightened to be stopped by you. If your Dept frustrates you this much, maybe you should apply somewhere more progressive with less political problems. In all honesty that may be your best bet at this point. I have read other posts you have posted in other topic areas and there is very inteligent advise you havegiven to others. Believe it or not, my past experiences before I got to "LaLa" land are much like yours. But, I respected veteran officers and there advise, ESPECIALLY if I asked for it.

[TIGGY]

Motivator,
I went back and re-read your posts and my posts to see what could have triggered you? I was really bothered about you being a public servant after reading your reply to me. When I was talking about "SCARING" you that was intended to be a light hearted jab that cops usually take at one another. If my original post was degrading, please let me know.....because, I read it again and again and I still do not see what triggered you into that tirade. You truly and honestly worry me if your temper is that short fused. Beleive it or not, but I feel safe to say that ALL cops in this forum have shared the same feelings you do: Frustration about the criminal justice system
and everything we do to fight crime is all for not. But parts of the maturing process of this job is: 1.) not to take things personal, 'cause the frustration of it will only 'cause you to turn grey before you turn 30. 2.) find a glitch in this career you ecxel at and make it your focus point. My, personal glitch is fair and pro-active enforcement of the law while showing compassion and lending a helping hand whenever possible. Call it corny or "naive" but that is me. It actually works for me. In my patrol precinct I am assigned to the slowest patrol zone; However, I have the highest stats for proactive arrests on my shift. (And these do not include warrant arrests signed by a judge , which is kinda a "gimmie" arrest in my state.) I mean drug arrests, DUI's and so forth. But I try to get to know the arrested ones. Maybe try to make a positive influence in their lives. They curse at me at times and shrug me off but I don't take it personal. Why should I? They may curse me when they get out, but that is there right under the first ammendment. So what if they do? They may flip me off? O.K. Big Deal. Maybe one out of every hundred I arrest, may listen to some helpful advise about being a productive citizen in the community,and who knows, maybe take heed to it. Kinda of why I became a cop. Help people. Just got to find the ones that want it. Especialy the kids. So what if it is the scrote I was friendly to, the one that hated cops at one time and now has grown to respect them because he was treated in a way he did not expect to be treated. Maybe I caught him off guard. I'd rather get to know why they do what they do so we as peace officers can try to prevent others from breaking the same laws. Call this style of policing naive if you want my friend, but I learned it from one of the most respected and well known officers, amongst the citizens and fellow officers, in my precinct. And our precinct is not "LaLa" land. So how is this a naive way of thinking? I am extremely curious of your reasoning behind this. Maybe you see something I have missed in my style of thinking? Let me know if you are intersted in reading that book I mentioned in my first post, "Verbal Judo." I can get you the author's name and dif channels you can get a copy of it. Otherwise, please let me know if my style of giving advice is offensive to others so I can adjust it, accordingly. My goal is not to offend but to offer helpful advise, when asked for, to my brothers and sisters in our choosen career of law enforcement. Your reply would be greatly appreciated .

[dkiefner]

Nice response, Tiggy. That you were bothered that it might have been you says a lot about you.

I too would be interested in Motivator's reply. How about it, M?

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Dave Kiefner
[i]Die Wahrheit ist eine Perle. Werfen sie nicht vor die S

[GDenman]

Geez, Motivator, make a quick trip to Eckard's & get the prescription refilled. That little outburst wasn't called for.

[FLLawdog]

I'm proud to say that I've known Tiggy for going on 5 years now, and during that time I had the pleasure of sharing a zone with him for two years. I've seen his enforcement style in action, and yes, it does work. Does impress all the scrotes? Hell no! But neither does chasing down every little dirt bag that ****es you off. Tiggy may not get 100% respect and compliance with his method, but at least he doesn't feel the need to slap the wife and kick the dog when he gets home because of all of the stress he creates for himself. Of course, that also doesn't mean he's a marshmallow, either.

Bottom line, Motivator....do what you gotta do to enforce the laws of your state, but remeber the wrong moves you make affect the profession as a whole.

Do I think you were out of line with your response to Tig? You betcha! By the way...what's "bird launching"?

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FLLawdog
"Never try to teach a pig to sing...it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

[Motivator]

,


[This message has been edited by Motivator (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Sparky]

Hey...we're all family in here. And like most families...sometimes we get our wires crossed, but no matter what, we're all still family.

That's why I love being da po-po!!

I'm gonna be outta here for a while. You guys can check my post in the announcement section.

Ya'll keep your heads down and your $hit wired tight while I'm gone.

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-Sparky

[FLLawdog]

My my my, Motivator. Doesn't take much to set you off, does it? First some kid who you shouldn't give two s***s about flipping you off, then a couple of figures of speech from someone who gave you a very good answer to your question.

Here's the first figure of speech:

By Tiggy: I see that you choose to use "Motivator" as a screen name.

How I interpret that is that Tiggy simply chose to put quotes around your screen name, which isn't all that uncommon when using a nickname.

Now the second:

By Tiggy: I believe we have scared away Mr. Motivator.

It had been 16 days and several rapid fire responses in between your posts. I doubt very seriously that Tig meant anything wrong in that, only that you hadn't been around. By saying you might have been scared, didn't mean running from the room like a little girl, he was just poking fun at you. This happens sometimes in this job. If you can't handle it from your peers, then you're up s*** creek out on the street.

"Lighten up, Francis"- Sgt. Hulka.



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FLLawdog
"Never try to teach a pig to sing...it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

[Sparky]

I see that he came in and edited out his previous apology along with the rest of his posts.

Hope he comes back, though. I didn't think it was THAT big a deal.
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-Sparky

[TIGGY]

Hey Ya'll,

[TIGGY]

O.K. let me try posting again...I did not think we would stir this much emotion amongst us. Sorry ya'll...kinda got interesting however. Are all of us in agreeance to put this topic to rest? But before we do, I completely understand what Motivator is goin' through. Most, if not all of us have been down that road. I still get frustrated almost every day I go to dawn the Uni and badge. But I ask myself why? And reading everyone's reply's is full of the answers we all could benifit from. Motivator, I guess it is about time I stopped reading this post...but believe it or not...your original post inspired me to give you such an emotion filled reply... And whoever mentioned my use of quotations was absolutely right...I only use them to place a stronger emphasis on the word...not to humilate or degrade you...I sure wish you could have replied on this post page to me, however. Nonetheless I understand if you don't want to reply to me... Good luck in searching and finding the answers for your questions...Let us know what worked for you.


Tiggy

[Motivator]

Tiggy and the rest of the guys,

I am done with my PMS!!! I was just having a bad few weeks. alls better now and please don't feel as if I didn't appreciate the advice. You people are top of the line and although I don't directly serve with you guys, I am proud to be associated with ALL of you. I think it's fair to say that the guys/gals that even bother to reply to a rookie post give at least a short hair on a rats *****.Thats what I like about this area is you can vent without civil liability! And I would rather vent with you guys knowin where each of us is coming from than on some client of al sharpton.
I edited my post to slow it down as I feel as if my question has been answered. I sincerely thank you all and hope that none of you hold my bad attitude against me in the future. I am learning every day and am loving my job more every day. As a rookie, I sometimes get flustered when a problem can't be solved immediately and as I learn more and more about this profession I am seeing how diverse and flexible you must be, because not one of my calls has been the same.

Example: Shoplifter call 2 units on scene(slow day)I decide to leave my PR-24 in the car...won't need it for this. Ended up being one hell of a fight!!! Result:Pr-24 is part of my uniform....comes off right before my ballistic vest at home. The subject could have been subdued much more quickly and it would have made us look a little more organized to the public that was watching us scramble around to arrest this guy and his pal.

Again I appreciate all of you.

[Niteshift]

Glad to know you still love us. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

As far as the PR being left in the car, that's why I first went to the ASP. I carried it even when I had a full size PR in the car. That way even if I got out for coffee etc, I had my impact weapon.

Let me give you another tip: Get a small flashlight for the same reasons. Most guys forget them in the day time and once you need one inside some dark building at high noon, you'll find a place for it on your bat belt. Even if it's a little 2AA mini-mag, it will be better than trying to search around the room using your Zippo for light.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[This message has been edited by Niteshift (edited 11-12-2000).]

[mp200901]

Edited as contained out of date information

[Rita]

FLLAWDOG,

Why didnt you tell me that there was someone else from the old home place floating around in here?

Hey Tiggy, Proud to say that I was born & raised in your county, spent many of good days & nights on your beach and did alot of things (that I cant mention here) in your county. Nice to meet you.

[Niteshift]

Did you just type it out of order Rita? I read what you said this way:

did alot of things (that I cant mention here)on your beach. http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Niteshift (edited 11-22-2000).]

[TIGGY]

RITA, Small world,,,,grew up one county north of here...I am a "lifer" here in DB
with the S.O. talk later