Carry your back-ups.

[TheDesire]

This post is edited.

[Tpr]

..................

[tutt101]

I have a serious question for you, why do you need all those knives?

[StudChris]

I have a serious question for you, why do you need all those knives?

One for every position that you might be fighting for your life from. I only carry two, but if I could afford two more good knives I'd carry four.

[grumpyirishman]

Strange people...?????!!!!!:eek:

[fahrenheit]

Those of you who are making fun of this guy can take an important lesson away from this post. The numbers of people in this country who carry numerous edged weapons and are training in how to use them is growing fast. Edged weapons are a serious threat to your safety every day and they're much easier to miss in a search than a gun is. A person who's trained with edged weapons can disable you incredibly quickly. Always double check and always be safe.

This pic shows the results of what happens when a cop (who was reportedly in great physical condition) meets up with someone who trains with edged weapons. Mods, if this is too graphic, I'll remove it.
http://fugitivewatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/image001.jpg

[DOAcop38]

One for every position that you might be fighting for your life from. I only carry two, but if I could afford two more good knives I'd carry four.

makes sense- carry my leatherman tool as well as a SOG knife ( in addition to either a S&W mod 36 or S&W 908 as BUGs) The City and the Dept frowns on the push daggers- "out of policy"( although IF you used a pencil in a deadly force incident , you'd probably get clr'd!) .I wouldn't carry that many , but if it can be done safely and theres a working need for, good for him......

[TheDesire]

StudChris and fahrenheit hit the nail on the head.

I am not going to die or be on the hospital due to lack of preparedness. I would not want to go into a gun fight with only a knife, I would not want to go into a black building without a flashlight, and I do not want to be a statistic. You never know when you are going to lose your sidearm, you never know what you are going to face, and you never know when you may be fighting for your life.

There is no such thing as a "routine" call/stop.

[ArkansasFan24]

I just ordered a folding knife designed to be opened ambidextrously specifically to carry on my left side. I fumble too much trying to open my assisted-opening, Kershaw Leek with my off (left) hand. However, I can zip it right out with the right hand.

[Nightshift va]

You have to go home at the end of your tour of duty. If some perp is hanging on your holster in attempt to get your gun away from you and there is a good chance he might succeed despite all your efforts to retain your firearm you better be prepared to do what you have to do even if that means burying a blade in his temple. You have to be prepared in this line of work to act or die. You go from zero to one hundred in the blink of an eye in this job and if you are not willing to use whatever means necessary to live you need to rethink your job decision not just for your families sake but for other officers who depend on you.

[hoss06]

Was that guy in the picture wearing a vest?

[TheDesire]

A knife can go right through a vest.

[Narco]

i saw a powerpoint on that officers stabbing incident years ago. if someone has it or has the background story id love to see it again

[tutt101]

I knew a knife would go through a vest, but I thought it was during a jabbing not slashing. That’s news to me.

Anyway, what you said makes sense. My thought was too…untrained. I just thought if you have a knife what’s the need for a second or more. I will likely have to look into another knife or two after I can afford a backup gun.

[FiremanMike]

I will probably start phasing out the LCP now that I found a somewhat comfortable vest carry for my 9c, and I'd still like to get a Ka-Bar for my belt.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3646/dutyweaponsgs1.jpg

[stillamarine]

Firemanmike, can you send me more info on the vest carry for the 9c? We are issued the full size for duty and I want to get the compact for off duty. (have you tried carrying the full size off duty?) If I can carry the 9c as a BUG that eliminates the need to get a different gun for that.

[FiremanMike]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8769/vestcarryjn8.jpg
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2180/vestcarry2yd9.jpg

Uncle Mikes 8745-4, right and left hand holster.

Is it invisible, is it noticeable? It's certainly not invisible, but it's probably not as noticeable as I think it is. I pm'd you some more info.

[Guzman]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8769/vestcarryjn8.jpg
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2180/vestcarry2yd9.jpg

Uncle Mikes 8745-4, right and left hand holster.

Is it invisible, is it noticeable? It's certainly not invisible, but it's probably not as noticeable as I think it is. I pm'd you some more info.

I like that. i'm getting a G36 shortly and am debating ankle or carrying like you have.

[Bigtexan44]

Here you go Narco............
WHY COPS SHOOT GUYS WITH KNIVES and WHY YOU SHOULD ALSO





JUST SHOOT THOSE IDIOTS THEN ASK QUESTIONS.



THIS WAS AN INJURY THAT COULD OF BEEN PREVENTED. DONT BE A HERO... SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT.



The photos are of an officer trained in hand-to-hand combat.

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd323/johnatwi/untitled1.jpg
http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd323/johnatwi/untitled2.jpg
http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd323/johnatwi/untitled3.jpg


The officer figured, due to his size and fighting skills, he could disarm a knife wielding aggressor.



Here is why I am forwarding these on.



To all the idiots out there who always say, "Why did the cops have to shoot him? He only had a (insert your choice of weapons here, i.e. knife, bat, club. whatever). He didn't have to be shot.





To that, I respond, "tough crap ... shoot'em".



If an officer tells you to drop your weapon, just drop it.



If you're a retard, stupid, on crack, mental or just "scared" ... too bad. No one deserves what this cop got for just doing his job. If you got a knife, then you should die ... period.



This is vivid proof of how deadly people who are "only armed with a knife" can be. Some of the public think that officers should try to disarm someone armed with a knife but anyone who has had training in knife fighting will tell you - even if you win you are going to get cut.



Keep this in the back of your mind when confronting someone armed with an edged weapon.

[ace789nj]

Holy ****, did he fight a ninja? I carry one knife, I was thinking about carrying a second but wasn't sure if it was warranted. Though my G27 does come out with me on occasion, my department does not allow us to carry back up firearms.

[Phil H.]

Those of you who are making fun of this guy can take an important lesson away from this post. The numbers of people in this country who carry numerous edged weapons and are training in how to use them is growing fast. Edged weapons are a serious threat to your safety every day and they're much easier to miss in a search than a gun is. A person who's trained with edged weapons can disable you incredibly quickly. Always double check and always be safe.

This pic shows the results of what happens when a cop (who was reportedly in great physical condition) meets up with someone who trains with edged weapons. Mods, if this is too graphic, I'll remove it.
http://fugitivewatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/image001.jpg

no way this guy was wearing a vest. ive done tests on vests with knives and guns. even an 'icepick' stick is a pain in the butt to get through a vest but slashing like that? ive never had anything close to penetration while slashing. BTW, it almost looks like a prison infirmary picture.

[jDmImagE]

no way this guy was wearing a vest. ive done tests on vests with knives and guns. even an 'icepick' stick is a pain in the butt to get through a vest but slashing like that? ive never had anything close to penetration while slashing. BTW, it almost looks like a prison infirmary picture.

I also could have sworn that this was part of a prison fight. I remember being shown this in my corrections academy and I think they also showed it to us in my police academy. I am almost positive this was the result of a fight between two inmates.

[Defender77]

Sometimes being trained in certain arts can give one a false sense of security.

Where an Officer who has little training in hand-to-hand martial arts and is facing a knife-wielding suspect will instantly go for his gun and fire....

....the Officer trained in dis-arming knife-wielding suspects with his hands may look at his gun as a secondary weapon, rather than as a primary.

[shooter]

We are not allowed to carry back-up guns or knives... Only service pistol, pepperspray and batton.

[Kycop28]

I also could have sworn that this was part of a prison fight. I remember being shown this in my corrections academy and I think they also showed it to us in my police academy. I am almost positive this was the result of a fight between two inmates.

I think you are right, look at the guy standing in front, has that "Corrections guarding stance" and if I am correct, do I see chains next to him. Also looks like jail issued boxers, I can't imangine if I were stabbed that many times I would be sitting there in tidy whiteys letting people take a picture and also check out the Tat, looks like a street tat to me.

[Louisiana PD52]

We are not allowed to carry back-up guns or knives... Only service pistol, pepperspray and batton.

Sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission....I'm a rules kind of guy, but I would make an exception for something like that kinda rule.

[BDRT82]

Why in the heck wont your PD allow you to carry a BUG or kniife. That is just stupid. I also agree with Louisiana.

[NextCapCop]

Holy crap! looks like that one officer had an encounter with a Katana sword!

[Rev1]

I don't know the original source of this picture so i can't claim if it's an officer or an inmate.
The first time I saw it, it was presented as an officer from Russia.
I think the point behind the picture is that if you engage in hand-to-hand with a suspect armed with a knife, YOU ARE GOING TO BE CUT BADLY!

It doesn't matter if you're wearing a vest.

If I were the bad guy, I would cut you on all those nice places your vest just don't cover.

Arms, legs, groin, neck, face.

Imagine JUST ONE of those cuts across your forehead.

You won't be able to see from all the blood in your eyes. (If you have eyes left.)
A cut like this on your arm isn't just going to hurt, it's likely to disable your arm. Now what if that arm is your weapon arm?

I'm also not stopping with a single cut.

The attack is going to be multiple slashes and stabs from different angles. Eventually I will get through whatever defenses you have and hit a vital spot.

When I am working, in addition to my issued Glock 19, I carry a S&W 360 PD .357 magnum on my left ankle, a Gerber bootknife on my right, a Benchmade folder in my right pocket, a Cold Steel Safekeeper II on my inner belt and a Spyderco in my vest under my shirt.

Keep in mind that an edged weapon is NOT an inappropriate response when you are justified in using lethal force.

In fact, let's say you run into a situation where you respond to an officer who is fighting a guy who is trying to take his firearm.

You are justified in using lethal force but is SHOOTING the bad guy really the best option?

No.

In fact, that's how an officer in Kentucky was killed recently.

Friendly fire.

It would be better if you grabbed the bad guy by the forehead, yanked back and cut his throat.

Which is what I would do.

Rev

[CHP cruzer]

Sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission....I'm a rules kind of guy, but I would make an exception for something like that kinda rule.

It's better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

I carry an .38 on my ankle. Its more of a gut gun. I also carry two knives.

[ChopperCopper]

I like to carry my Kel-Tec in my front pocket so that there is an obvious outline of a gun.

I also like to smile at the thugs dealing at the gas station while I nonchalantly tap it when walking by.

[OperatorEX]

^
why play your hand early? lame

[SOI]

I believe those pictures are of an inmate. I remember seeing them for the first time several years ago(I think I was still a C.O. so it's been a while) and I believe the first origin of them was a prison.

As for the knives, I have been known to carry a few. I've got an older larger folder that I carry concealed on me for heavy prying, a Spyderco that I carry in my off-hand pocket, and a Kabar TDI on my belt for quick draw. I don't carry as many as some people simply because I can't comfortably carry that many. But a knife(or 10) is one of those things that you will never regret having.

As for knife fighting or fighting someone who is armed with a knife, as someone else already mentioned, you want NO part of that. People attempting to harm you with a knife are to be shot, preferably at a distance great enough that a knife is not plunged into you with their dying breath.

I used to train in knife fighting a lot. No matter how good you are or how fast you are, I guarantee that a novice can and will cut you. It's not a matter of "if", only "when". And it's usually sooner than later. For beginners we use to have one person wearing a tight white t-shirt defend himself against a person with a red permanent marker. Using any and all techniques available, you would try to get the knife from the other person or keep them from stabbing you. The fastest strongest people were lucky if they came out with only minor red streaks on the extremities. 99% of people, regardless of experience, came out with red slashes all over their bodies. Even when the attacker had no knife experience.

And contrary to popular belief, the smaller knives were the hardest to defend against. There was less surface area to grab and the smaller shorter blades did as much tissue damage as a longer blades. In the pictures above, that easily could have been a blade of 1 inch. So take those little pocket knives seriously during pat downs.

[ArkLawman]

Issued a GLOCK 17 (9mm) and carry a GLOCK 26 (9mm) on my ankle. I also carry a knife on my weak side in case I a m protecting or laying on my gun side. HARD TO KILL!!!!

[bigstakz]

StudChris and fahrenheit hit the nail on the head.

I am not going to die or be on the hospital due to lack of preparedness. I would not want to go into a gun fight with only a knife, I would not want to go into a black building without a flashlight, and I do not want to be a statistic. You never know when you are going to lose your sidearm, you never know what you are going to face, and you never know when you may be fighting for your life.

There is no such thing as a "routine" call/stop.


Food for thought to me. I like the idea. I have to constantly be on the lookout for straight edged weapons, as my avatar speaks for it self.

[Biscuit Brown]

Hi all,
I've seen this before, and it was listed as an inmate 'dispute' , not a copper...

[detbyrd]

Just like my American Express card, I never leave home without my Glock 27. Any cop without a backup weapon is making a BIG mistake. The world is going downhill, so why not be prepared. Even being a veteran law enforcement officer, I still feel that carrying off-duty is as important as it was when I was a rookie. I also carry the new SOG Auto knive on a clip out of sight.

[Biscuit Brown]

Are you guys supported well in dealing with off-duty arrests? We're not allowed to carry anything except Handcuffs, and even thats a 'grey area'.
Off duty incidents are avoided like the plague in UK, as you're on your own, with no kit and no back up. On top of that its generally grief, and you're not supprted by yoor hierarchy....

[Code Seven]

Where an Officer who has little training in hand-to-hand martial arts and is facing a knife-wielding suspect will instantly go for his gun and fire....

....the Officer trained in dis-arming knife-wielding suspects with his hands may look at his gun as a secondary weapon, rather than as a primary.

Have you been trained to use your firearm as a secondary weapon when dealing with knife-wielding suspects?

[2971511]

Are you guys supported well in dealing with off-duty arrests? We're not allowed to carry anything except Handcuffs, and even thats a 'grey area'.
Off duty incidents are avoided like the plague in UK, as you're on your own, with no kit and no back up. On top of that its generally grief, and you're not supprted by yoor hierarchy....

That totally depends on the Dept. and the arrest.

NYPD definitely FROWNS on it, yet other depts. allow you to take your police car home with you and drive it around off duty, as long as you are in your County, City, or State, if you're a Trooper.

Most Depts. allow you to carry your firearm off duy, and with the LEOSA, most officers can carry throughout the country.

I have made 3 off duty arrests in 20+ years, and they were both crimes i felt I had to intervene in. One was a suspect beating the crap out of a store security guard, the other was what i thought was a robbery of a store, turned out to be a theft of merchandise, with 2 employees chasing the suspect. the last one was so long ago, I dont remember all the details.

My current Dept. USPP does not have a problem with it, but they like you to use common sense and only get involved if you absolutley have to.