830.....Questions

[DEcop989]

Greetings from an LEO in Delaware

I've been browsing the Cali forum - as I wouldn't mind switching coasts - and I see that there are these 830-series numbers being thrown around. I was wondering if one of you knowledgable comrades would be so kind as to delineate what the acts are what authority it gives the person taking it.

Here's my shtick. Got hurt while wrestling a subject - twisted the ankle and tore a muscle. Now I can't run very far without my ankle giving out. That said, my desire to return to the road hasn't slaked. So...what sort of depts out in Sunny Cali don't require a full academy? Do these 830.1.12.3 whatever classes come into play?

Many thanks brothers for you anticipated responses. *dripping/sarcasm*

[cruz0311]

To become a peace officer in the state of California you have to go through a full academy, and be employed by a law enforcemnet agency. Penal code section 830.1 is what give you authority to perform your job as a peace officer.

[DOAcop38]

To become a peace officer in the state of California you have to go through a full academy, and be employed by a law enforcemnet agency. Penal code section 830.1 is what give you authority to perform your job as a peace officer.

The sections under 830 PC designate primary area of responsibility- those designated as 830.1 PC have general police enforcement responsibility( county or municipal peace officers) while the reast fall under State, or district police officers -as "Cruz" pointed out- all patrol responding peace officers have to be CA. POST certified and attend a basic police academy;the only real difference is often in the criminal follow up of investigations as well the emphasis on where and what is actually patrolled.Doesn't really matter as -when it comes down to it- any peace officer under the sections of 830 PC can pursue you ,arrest you, and investigate you from committing criminal acts throughout the state of Calif.

what you need to do is have an assessment of you prior medical condition,then find out if your Delaware training will qualify you to take the CA. POST equivalency testing for out of staters

[L-1]

First, it's been a while since I've dealt with this, so my information may be out of date. With that in mind, call POST at (916) 227.3909 and inquire about the following:

If you look around the 830.3 sections you will find a number of state investigator positions. If memory serves me correctly, several of these only required that you complete a state investigator academy. I don't know what the physical requirements are for that academy, but given that the investigations they conduct are more administrative or regulatory in nature, there may not be a lot of PT involved. To find current state investigator vacancies check out http://jobs.spb.ca.gov/exams_occgroup2.cfm?mac=11

Further on in the 830.3X section you will find several jobs that are really security guard positions that come with police powers. They are not very exciting and you will answer to a civilian who knows nothing about police work and who will no doubt order you to do all sorts of things that are totally unprofessional (but I digress). Many of these jobs only require what is called an 832 PC academy. It is abbreviated training that you might be able to limp through (pun intended). Given that you will be working for a civilian agency such as a school, a utility company or the courts, who have no idea as to the physical demands of law enforcement, its likely the pre-employment physical will be minimal. But at the same time, it's just as likely that you will become the midnight watchman, whose only task is to sit and watch the metal rust.

Best of luck.

[DAL]

There is also the possibility of taking an exam and getting a waiver of the POST Basic Academy. However, any department that hires you would require you to pass a rather demanding physical, unless you took a position such as DA Investigator.

[DEcop989]

I saw other than the 830.

In fact, I was looking at a hospital police dept that mentioned something about 832. what is that?

[barkalot]

I'm no expert but here is my understanding of things:

If you have been through a police academy in Delaware, you would have to go through the Basic Course Waiver (BCW) process to be eligible to work as a police officer in California.

The BCW basically requires you to present proof of your training to California POST for review. They will tell you where you are lacking.

From that point it gets sketchy for me. I have heard from one person that they had to supplement their training by taking classes in the areas in which they were lacking before proceeding any further.

From there the person is then required to take and complete a California POST-approved Basic Academy Re-qualification course. This is a 136 hour course on various aspects of police work and California law. It is offered by several academies/community colleges throughout the state and can be presented in varying formats such as a three-week format or nine weekend format.

Once you receive your certificate to work as a police officer in California you can begin applying for different agencies.

Every agency has different standards for what "level" you would be able to apply. Some might consider you a "lateral" if you have police experience. Some might consider you an "academy graduate". Others might consider you "entry level".

Every agency also has different requirements for physical agility tests. Some may not require one for "lateral" candidates but require them for "entry level" ones. Even the tests can vary. Some require only a short sprint, getting over a six-foot wall and dragging a dummy.

I believe POST requires the hiring agency to have you submit to a medical physical but this is after a conditional job offer. You would likely have to list your ailment during this process.

I believe back, heart and possibly some lung ailments are of special concern to employers since they are "presumptive", which means if a police officer gets them, it is normally presumed to have been job-related. A prior ankle injury may or may not be a big deal to an employer.

The difference between some of the various peace officers classifications vary. One of the major ones seems to be whether or not you have full peace officer powers, that is off-duty peace officer powers. They also vary as to whether you can carry a firearm off-duty without a concealed carry permit.

I hope this helps.

[LeeRoy]

I saw other than the 830.

In fact, I was looking at a hospital police dept that mentioned something about 832. what is that?

832 PC is the section in the penal code that dictates training requirements for anybody appointed to a peace officer position in CA. The basic police academy curriculum in CA includes 832 PC training requirements. There are also more abbreviated "832 PC" classes for agencies that do not require a full police academy but are permitted by law to grant peace officer authority on their employees.

[sinned]

Every agency around here requires you to attend a full CA academy. I had a officers from AK and TX in my class.

[IMachU]

If you can meet the requirements put forth by Calif POST, we'll hire you. We'll put you through the 3 week course (if one is available), you take the test, then start FTO.

[DEcop989]

Well, this doesnt sound good. So Cali's out.

Thanx guys.

[Stugotz]

My understanding is that the 830.1, 830.2, 830.3 etc. hierarchy designates primary areas of responsibilities. My question is this: say you are an 830.3X peace officer, are you not a "fulltime peace officer" with 24-hour peace officer powers?

I've heard this line of thought from some older officers and it strikes me as incorrect...

[DEcop989]

What about 832? Or 831 for that matter?

[DOAcop38]

My understanding is that the 830.1, 830.2, 830.3 etc. hierarchy designates primary areas of responsibilities. My question is this: say you are an 830.3X peace officer, are you not a "fulltime peace officer" with 24-hour peace officer powers?

I've heard this line of thought from some older officers and it strikes me as incorrect...

Thats just what it is - from "older officers" and their intrepretation. Case in point, a friend from my old reserve academy at rio hondo was working as an L.A. city Park Ranger. He was driving thru montebello some yrs back ,leaving a girlfriends house when montebello PD officers felt "something" was suspicious about him and his car, Despite id'ing himself as a City Park Ranger ( Peace officer) ,and having no other PC to detain him( expired registration, traffic viols) they asked him if he had a firearm on him, and he said "yes"- Montebello PD officers then entered his vehicle , searched and found the weapon in a holster and arrested him on the 12031(a) PC violation. Their mindset? since he wasn't 830.1 PC ( no park Ranger, state or local is ) he "wasn't a real peace officer" and had no "off duty authority".when they discovered that his agency is unarmed,they pushed an IA complaint against him to LAPD at first (LAPD said they didn't handle complaints against Rangers and referred them to the Park Rangers Dept),but also advised them that there were no off duty restrictions against Park Rangers having firearms.the case was REJECTED by the court.

alot of older generation officers like to look down on police officers and peace officers not in 830.1 ( they even "dog" 830.2 officers like the CHP,State Park Rangers, Dept of Fish and game, Univ. of Ca. and Cal.State Univ. cops) as being "less police" or "limited"- the only limit is general area of immediate responsibility. BUT they - the Officers I talked about- often FAIL to want to accept the part of the penal code that states "the listed officers are PEACE OFFICERS ANYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA".....

There are stipulations in the subsections which require that the listed peace officers NOT in 830.1,2,3 have authorization by their agencies to be armed on duty, but this was long agreed upon due to pressure from the CA.Police chiefs Association to "regulate" what they considered "security" units outside their span of control.Ca POST requirements, coupled with yrs of training and experience has made this issue of little consquence. I'll challenge you to find ANY city or county police officer or person in supervision who actually is STUPID enough to think they can interfere,stop or overturn the actions of a "college" or "school" or "transit" police officer in the lawful and legal performance of that officers duty.reminds me of a situation where and El Segundo Police officer approached a Partner and I on a traffic stop back on sepulveda and El segundo Bl in 1993.We were taking a female felony warrant suspect into custody ( she knew she had the warrant and continued to drive thinking we'd stop following her).We thought he had stopped to back us,but the same officer,upon seeing the female driver crying as she was handcuffed, actually said " they can't arrest you ! they are off AIRPORT PROPERTY ".:eek::eek::rolleyes:(dumbass didn't "realize" that we are police officers of the City of L.A. )

Same officer was even silly enough to call his Sgt ,but the Sgt apparently corrected him on this. with the exception of certain segments of the section that covers State correctional officers, there is NO "limited" peace officer status , and you don't STOP being a Peace officer off duty.....

[IMachU]

My understanding is that the 830.1, 830.2, 830.3 etc. hierarchy designates primary areas of responsibilities. My question is this: say you are an 830.3X peace officer, are you not a "fulltime peace officer" with 24-hour peace officer powers?

I've heard this line of thought from some older officers and it strikes me as incorrect...

That is incorrect. My agency is 830.31, and we are full time, 24 hour peace officers. You gotta be careful who you listen to....read for yourself and learn.

[Stugotz]

That is incorrect. My agency is 830.31, and we are full time, 24 hour peace officers. You gotta be careful who you listen to....read for yourself and learn.
xX
Agreed sarge! I've read that chapter of the penal code and didn't think 830.3X peace officers were "limited." Just thought, for good measure, I'd ask those who live and breath it... :D

The CA CDI Fraud Investigator position looks promising and it's 830.3. They just have to open up the degree requirements like they're advertising.

[DOAcop38]

DEcop- you may ant to consider a FED LE job or just look into an investigative position.If your knee is an issue that will keep you out of an academy, check with www.post.ca.gov for the POST challenge examination process.

[LeeRoy]

My question is this: say you are an 830.3X peace officer, are you not a "fulltime peace officer" with 24-hour peace officer powers?

Yes 830.3x is still a cop 24/7 but those powers don't necessarily include CCW. All of the 830.3x penal code sections have the following caveat:


These peace officers may carry firearms only if authorized and under those terms and conditions as specified by their employing agencies:

Prior to HR218 830.3x officers could have been arrested for carrying off duty if their agency prohibited off duty carry. Now provided that you are authorized to carry on-duty you are protected through federal preemption of state law.

For those of you who think you can take action anywhere in the state for any crime you should watch the POST Case Law Today #16 April 2008 video from Judge Bledsoe (available on the POST learning portal - You'll need your POST ID number to access). The issue deals with stops outside of the political subdivision where you are employed.

[IMachU]

I carry 24/7. I'd LOVE for someone to hook me. ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!! Man, I'd even give the arresting officer 25% of the take, after I sued that department for all they are worth, and then some.

[MrVega$]

First, it's been a while since I've dealt with this, so my information may be out of date. With that in mind, call POST at (916) 227.3909 and inquire about the following:

If you look around the 830.3 sections you will find a number of state investigator positions. If memory serves me correctly, several of these only required that you complete a state investigator academy. I don't know what the physical requirements are for that academy, but given that the investigations they conduct are more administrative or regulatory in nature, there may not be a lot of PT involved. To find current state investigator vacancies check out http://jobs.spb.ca.gov/exams_occgroup2.cfm?mac=11

Further on in the 830.3X section you will find several jobs that are really security guard positions that come with police powers. They are not very exciting and you will answer to a civilian who knows nothing about police work and who will no doubt order you to do all sorts of things that are totally unprofessional (but I digress). Many of these jobs only require what is called an 832 PC academy. It is abbreviated training that you might be able to limp through (pun intended). Given that you will be working for a civilian agency such as a school, a utility company or the courts, who have no idea as to the physical demands of law enforcement, its likely the pre-employment physical will be minimal. But at the same time, it's just as likely that you will become the midnight watchman, whose only task is to sit and watch the metal rust.

Best of luck.

Speaking strictly for the Department of Insurance, Fraud Division. Our powers are defined under 830.3(i) We used to send the majority of our new recruits to the Specialized Investigators Basic Academy (SIBC) which are only held in Yuba City or Huntington Beach. However due to travel/per diem costs the Regional Offices have been sending recruits through the local Police/Sheriff's Academies.

While it is true that some State agencies are regulatory in nature. The CDI Fraud Division's cases are all criminal. We have a separate Division of non-sworn investigators that conduct the regulatory/administrative investigations.

[L-1]

Speaking strictly for the Department of Insurance, Fraud Division. Our powers are defined under 830.3(i) We used to send the majority of our new recruits to the Specialized Investigators Basic Academy (SIBC) which are only held in Yuba City or Huntington Beach. However due to travel/per diem costs the Regional Offices have been sending recruits through the local Police/Sheriff's Academies.

While it is true that some State agencies are regulatory in nature. The CDI Fraud Division's cases are all criminal. We have a separate Division of non-sworn investigators that conduct the regulatory/administrative investigations.

You guys are one of the few big dogs in the .3 section. I was think more in terms of Food & Drug, Labor Standards Enforcement, State Controller, Housing & Community Development, etc.

[DEcop989]

So what is 832, then? Are they LE agencies which are 832?

What is 831???

[sfvgsn]

Are you by chance asking about the PC832 Cert?

[L-1]

831 PC deals with custodial officers (civilian jailers) and civilian security officers.

832 PC deals with a number of issues ranging from training standards to confidentiality of peace officer records, just to name a few.

To get a feel for the entire 830 section, take a look at: http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=61885227402+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

[DEcop989]

Yes, what he said. The PC832 certification. The one piosition I noticed as state hospital police and it mentioned having your 832 certification. what is that?

Are there other police agencies that operate with that course???

[L-1]

Yes, what he said. The PC832 certification. The one piosition I noticed as state hospital police and it mentioned having your 832 certification. what is that?

Hospital police are uniformed, drive a marked unit and patrol the grounds of State mental hospitals. Because they are dealing with mental patients, most are unarmed. There are rarely more than one or two officers on duty at a time at most hospitals. The Police Chief answers to the hospital administrator, who has no law enforcement experience and as a result, may make decisions or give the department directions that are contrary to law or professional police standards. Don't be surprised if you are told take no action with respect to crimes committed by hospital employees, because they will be, "handled administratively."

Because hospital police departments have little expertise, training or resources they only handle minimal public assist calls and minor, preliminary crime reports. Anything of a serious nature is referred to the local police to handle. You don't want to work there.

[DEcop989]

O. Lovely.

[DEcop989]

But, given my situation, I may have to settle for it.

[DEcop989]

Just called the hospital police. Said the hiring process is about a year long. They do have marked units, and police powers. No weapons, but still. It may be what I have to do to remain blue.

Ask yourselves before you call be a fool - what would you do if presented face to face with the spectre of leaving law enforcement? Especially at a young age when you're watching visions of a twenty year career to come vanish without a fight. It may be a crappy job, but if it's what I can get....

[L-1]

Just called the hospital police. Said the hiring process is about a year long. They do have marked units, and police powers. No weapons, but still. It may be what I have to do to remain blue.

Ask yourselves before you call be a fool - what would you do if presented face to face with the spectre of leaving law enforcement? Especially at a young age when you're watching visions of a twenty year career to come vanish without a fight. It may be a crappy job, but if it's what I can get....

Just make sure you understand that you will be a police officer in name only, and that in your desperation, the only person you will be fooling is yourself.

One of the hospitals, Atascadero, used to arm its officers because it houses the criminally insane. (I don't know if they are still armed.) Many years ago there was an incident in which an inmate (a convicted, violent felon) escaped, carjacked a vehicle in the parking lot and tried to run down one of the Hospital Police Officers. In fear of his own life, the officer fired on the approaching vehicle. The suspect got out of the parking lot and headed into town with a Hospital Police Sergeant in pursuit in a marked vehicle. The suspect crashed in town and was captured by the Hospital Police Sergeant and a local PD officer.

The hospital administrator fired the Officer in the parking lot and suspended the Sergeant. She felt it was totally unreasonable for the Officer to shoot at the inmate, just because he was trying to kill him with a vehicle. She also suspended the Sergeant because she felt it was unreasonable for him to chase an escaped felon who had just tried to kill a fellow officer.

A year later the State Personnel Board overturned the disciplinary actions, commenting that they could not understand what kind of message the administrator was trying to send her staff.

My whole point here is in your attempt to remain a cop, you will be jumping into a world where good police work is not rewarded, but is instead is evaluated by people who have no expertise in the field and look upon it as an aberration.

Keep looking. There are other spots out there. What happened with Columbus?

[BigHouseGreen]

DE, I don't know if you are the type to stay out on the streets but you could also look into CDCr. We fall under 830.5. We have full police authority while on duty but we keep our status while off duty. We are allowed to carry off duty. We are not armed while inside the prisons but we are armed while working out in the community or on transportations outside the prisons. We do have officers are more into their laid back custodial duty while others are more proactive in their approach to their law enforcement duties. Believe it or not we still have murders, drugs, illegal weapons, rapes and etc still going on inside the prisons. We also police non inmates (i.e. visitors visiting inmates) while on state prison grounds. We charge them and book them ourselves into county jail. We are also better paid than the Hospital Police Officers you were talking about.

If your heart is out on the streets pulling traffic, answering calls, responding to crimes in progress then keep looking for a police/sheriff agency. All you can do is try.

I am not making a case for either corrections or police just giving you some ideas and insight into corrections because nobody really knows what goes on inside correctional institutions. And realize that after a couple years inside a institution you can always transfer over to a state parole agent and police the parolees that are on parole in the communities.

[Mikeyg76]

You may want to look into ABC (Alcoholic Beverage Control). ABC is listed under 830.2, the same sub-section as CHP, Fish and Game, etc. We are sending all of our new trainees to a full POST academy, due to the same reasons as DOI.

[Stugotz]

You may want to look into ABC (Alcoholic Beverage Control). ABC is listed under 830.2, the same sub-section as CHP, Fish and Game, etc. We are sending all of our new trainees to a full POST academy, due to the same reasons as DOI.

Just checked the website, looks like ABC is currently hiring Investigator I on a promotional basis, and Investigator II on OPEN basis. I'm not sworn... Any word when hiring will open for "Investigator Trainee" spots?

[IMachU]

LA County Police is hiring. http://ops.co.la.ca.us/

[DEcop989]

Would be nice, but again, my leg won't hold up through a full academy

[WPD954]

State hospital police have sworn investigator spots too, decent pay and state vehicle, since you mentioned the hospitals.

[sgttom]

State wise, there are many positions out there including but not limited to: ABC, Department of Insurance, State Lottery, Department of Motor Vehicles, Employment Development Department, State Parks, Department of Justice, Board of Equilization, Fish and Game, Office of Emergency Services, POST, Department of Consumer Affairs, etc. To the best of my knowledge, these departments all require a full basic academy. There is only one that does not - state hospital police. (There are more state agencies out there that I can't think of off hand).

on challenging CA POST, they will compare your academy and training since to the CA minimum level. What you don't have done, you will need to get on your own - be it racial profiling, NIMS, domestic violence, traffic investigations et al. (or whatever POST deems you need).

I know a few who have challenged the POST basic course and were successful but it took a while. It may be easier to go through the 3 week re-qualification course but that depends on what POST says of your present training and certifications.

PC832 certificate is a minimal amount of training - 40 hours classroom no firearm or 64 hours with firearms course. This used to be the most basic way to get trained and be a reserve officer and in some city agencies (back in the day), to have police powers. In the PC832 certificate route, there are modules, A, B and C. the most basic module is C (40 / 64 hours). you can go through 225 hours to obtain your B (good only for reserve officer status) and another 350 hours for your A module. With all the modules, you basically have a full basic academy. (note: module hours are estimated here)... I have a friend who went this route and is finishing his module A this December.

That said and back in the day, I went through the modules and it allowed me to be a level 1 reserve (ride alone and handle patrol work). on levels of reserves, there are 3. level 3 is the bottom level and basically, you are not armed and can only handle station duties under supervision. level 2 allows you to be armed and in the field with a regular officer (or level 1 reserve) and level 1 allows for riding solo on patrol). This is of course, dependent on what the employing agency will allow (riding alone and handling regular patrol work).

the hospital police is the only state agency i know that gives peace officer powers with PC832 training.

the hospital police as a whole are hiring and they take awhile with their process. example: Coalinga (near Fresno), Napa State Hospital (northern bay area), Atascadero, Patton Hospitals are hiring too (SoCal).

You have the Department of Developmental Services hiring too. They are an off shoot of the Hospital Police, just a slightly different setting. These guys require a full POST.

Hospital Investigators require a full POST and tested through another Department, i.e. not through the Hospital Police (yah, weird) but they work together.

check here for more info:

http://jobs.spb.ca.gov/exams_occgroup2.cfm?mac=11


or how about this:

Hospital Police Sergeant
Job Information
Agency: Mental Health
Positions: 1
Responsibilities: Supervises a team of Hospital Police Officers.
Job Type: Full time
Job Length: Permanent
Salary: Monthly: $3,788-4,786 (Annual: $45,456-57,432)
Application Deadline: Tuesday, October 21 2008
Contact
Contact: Employment Unit
Contact Division: P. O. Box 5002
Address:
City, State, Zip: Coalinga, CA 93210
Phone: (559) 935-4272

[WPD954]

Sgttom.......do you know if they (hospital police) hire outsiders for sgt positions, or is it just a formality to open it up to the general public ?

[Mikeyg76]

Just checked the website, looks like ABC is currently hiring Investigator I on a promotional basis, and Investigator II on OPEN basis. I'm not sworn... Any word when hiring will open for "Investigator Trainee" spots?

Should be the first part of '09

[Stugotz]

Should be the first part of '09

Beautiful! Thx, Sir. :D

I hope ABC does like CDI is doing now, and what CA-DOJ has already done -- opening the degree requirements to more than Criminal Justice bachelors! We'll see. . .

[sgttom]

From what I can tell, it's open to internal and external applicants....


Sgttom.......do you know if they (hospital police) hire outsiders for sgt positions, or is it just a formality to open it up to the general public ?

[El_Federal]

Every agency around here requires you to attend a full CA academy. I had a officers from AK and TX in my class.

just curious, how did the guys/gals from tx do? which dept hired them afterwards?... i'm getting 'the bug" of returning to cali and was wanting some info on the post waiver process... any input would be appreciated

thanks

[Mikeyg76]

.... double post

[Mikeyg76]

ABC is in process of changing their requirements to allow more degree options, just an FYI


Beautiful! Thx, Sir. :D

I hope ABC does like CDI is doing now, and what CA-DOJ has already done -- opening the degree requirements to more than Criminal Justice bachelors! We'll see. . .

[Stugotz]

ABC is in process of changing their requirements to allow more degree options, just an FYI

Thx Sir! ....... Good news for us in limbo with the County.