Recent Revelations In Russia

[FrozenKen]

Recently President George Bush visited with Putin. President Bush made a comment to the effect that the Chechnyan "problem" in Russia was an internal affair. Why is it okay to let Russia bully some of its former citizens but not Iraq? Why is it okay for some former soviet republics get out of the "motherland" but not others? I do think that terrorism is wrong and that the chechnyans should not hit civilian targets, but I would place my meager paycheck that the russian military did equal or worse to the Chechnyans in Chechnya. Don't mis-interpret this as a plea for sympathy for violent terroristic muslim extremists, it isn't I'm just making conversation, and I'm really bored and procrastinating cleaning the apartment.

FrozenKenInTanana

[Sam]

I see Islam as threat no matter where it is.

In the Quran, Allah orders Muslims to terrorize non-Muslims in His behalf:

"Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies." Surah 8:60

"Fight (kill) them (non Muslims) and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame." Surah 9:14

"I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah." Surah 8:12-17

"O ye who believe! Fight the unbelievers...let them find firmness (harshness) in you and know that Allah is with those who fear Him." Surah 9:123

In the Hadith (Mohammed's sayings), Mohammed also urges Muslims to practice Jihad.

Mohammed once was asked: what is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle? His answer was: "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause."Al-Bukhari vol 1:25

Mohammed was also quoted as saying: "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah." Al-Bukhari vol 4:196

[CinaC]

Sam,

Where are you getting your comments in your ()? Are you adding these yourself? If not, where are you getting them from?

Ken,

I certainly think the Cechnyans desire freedom from "Mother Russia", and I don't understand why they haven't been given it. Desperate situations breed desperate tactics, and the longer Russia continues to force these people down, the more "terrorist" attacks you'll see against "Mother Russia."

There is a DEEP hatred between Russians and Chechnyans as far as I've been able to see. A friend of mine at school is Chechnyan, which I only found out when I mistakenly pegged her accent as "Russian" ... she beat my arm, and didn't talk to me for a week.

[Spiderman]

Has anyone seen Roots of War by Chuck Missler? It's about the coming invasion of Magog against Israel as foretold in the Bible. Just wondering if anyone could offer a review before I buy it.

[555]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by C in a J:
<strong>Sam,

Where are you getting your comments in your ()? Are you adding these yourself? If not, where are you getting them from?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He made them up. He fancies himself an expert on the issue for reasons unknown to all but him. He starts his post with how much he considers Islam a threat and expects his interpretation to be taken seriously.

[Spiderman]

Try going to Mecca while just carrying a Bible. Wanna bet they don't mean 'kill'? How about just going to a mosque and praying to yourself in a manner that complies with Christianity rather than that of Islam? You'll find what they mean by 'firmness'. As far as any script that supports what Sam has written, I don't personally know of any. Then again, actions speak louder than words.

[555]

When was the last time you were in Mecca?

Or a mosque? :rolleyes:

Althought frankly I don't know why they shouldn't hate since you obviously hate them.

[555]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spiderman:
<strong>Try going to Mecca while just carrying a Bible. Wanna bet they don't mean 'kill'? How about just going to a mosque and praying to yourself in a manner that complies with Christianity rather than that of Islam? You'll find what they mean by 'firmness'. As far as any script that supports what Sam has written, I don't personally know of any. Then again, actions speak louder than words.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your words are speaking pretty loud and clear. I don't doubt that you made those ridiculous statements up based on nothing but your own prejudice.

I happen to know a lot of Muslim people and I sicerely doubt they would kill me if I prayed my own way in a mosque. How many Muslims do you know? Althought recently a Turkish friend was attacked by a truck full of hillbilies while coming out of a mosque.

[Spiderman]

Ah, the pitfalls of non-visual communitations. Studies have shown that communitcation is something like 80% visual (body language and facial expressions). Unfortunately, in this media, I seem to have implied a hatred for Muslim people. Let me assure you that I have no such dispositions toward them. How is your friend now? I know two Muslim men, one of which I am quite close with. The other was brutally attacked in front of his own home (Sacramento) this summer by two skin-heads and their mother. He is still recovering. We had similar stirings here immediately following Sept. 11 at a local Exxon station. The owners aren't even Arabic, much less Muslim; they're Indians and Hindu. So I can understand your 'hillbilly' statement. I prefer to call them idiots. They probably called themselves Christians, too. Morons.

As for my statements, let me only address those which I can support at this time. The others I am still looking for independent accounts (news coverage) to support.

I found a copy of the Qur'an on the internet. There I looked up Sam's passages. Admittedly, I did not find "kill" in 9:14. I did, however, find that his paranthetical inclusions in 8:60, 8:12 and 9:23 were good. In Sam's defense, 5:33 states that the punishment for those who wage war against God (that would be Alla in the Qur'an) is execution, crucifixion or cutting off the hands and feet from opposite sides of the body. Reflection would dictate that to 'wage war' against any god would be to speak against that god or not to believe in him/her. That would be me as I personally believe in the triunity of God the Father, The Spirit and The Son.

Also 9:5 says that they are to "...fight and slay the Pagans wherever [they] find them, and seize them and beleagure them, lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war).

As for being killed in a mosque for praying to Jesus or any god other that Alla, I did not mean that you would be killed...here. However, 9:17 states: "It is not for such as join gods to God, to visit or maintain the mosque of God while they witness against their own souls to infidelity." 9:31 kinda clarifies who they are speaking of. "...and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God; there is no god but He...(far is He) from having the partners they would associate (with him)." That's me again. By the way, all paranthetical inclusions are direct from the translation that I read. Brackets are mine.

Personally, I'm not planning on going to any mosques. As I don't believe in their god, I recognize that it would be disrespectful to do so. It would be similar to going to an anti-gun rally while wearing an NRA sweatshirt- just looking for a fight. Honestly, who needs that? And going to Mecca? Send me a postcard. I'm sure it's absolutely beautiful, but it's no place for me to be.

Even with all that, I still don't hate 'em. I love my Muslim friend dearly. Can't wait to hear from him (it's been four years since I moved away. Last time I stopped by the plant to see him, he was in Mecca. Go figure.)

'Course, 5:14 says, "From these, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part fo the message that was sent to them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgement." Does Muhammed (my buddy) have 'enmity and hatred' for me? I don't think so, but the Qur'an tells him to.

555, I don't know much about you and I sure wish we hadn't gotten off on this foot. Hopefully, we're good. At any rate, I have to thank you for sending me on this journey; I hadn't ever read any of the Qur'an for myself before this! If there's anything that you have personal insight into that I may have taken out of context, please let me know. I hate to be misleading.

[Watchman]

555...
Do you ever have anything to back up your responses ? Can you ever offer any opinions that have a basis in fact or experience ? Are your responses limited to the disrespect to others that you show on this forum ?
You say :
He made them up.

An assumption on your part. He didnt make them up. You are in error.

He fancies himself an expert on the issue for reasons unknown to all but him.

Here you go again. Anyone with knowledge that you dont have is an "expert" in your opinion. The way you respond to posts, its apparent to me that you dont know much of anything so everyone must be an expert on everything to you.

He starts his post with how much he considers Islam a threat and expects his interpretation to be taken seriously.

I know a family from this area that was visting the World Trade Center the day before they came down,I beleive they also consider "Islam" more of a threat then they did before. Any intelligent person is smart enough to know that the average muslim has no intention of killing any infidel.Its the extremely small percentage of radicals that are doing all of the damage and they are the ones to get the news coverage.

To ignore the small percentage and look the other way because they are muslim can be suicidal.

FWIW, I had to go to culture training and immersion classes when I was in the military that dealt specificaly with muslim tradition and customs. We were told how to act, and what not to say to avoid inadvertently offending people. This was 25 years ago and even then we were told of the way that they dealt with infidels, which is basically anybody that is not a muslim.

I told you this in hopes that you might understand that most people on this forum have many different expereinces in their lives and they can be vastly different than yours. When most people state on opinion on something its probably because they have a little background in it or they have valid reasons why their thoughts and opinions may vary from yours. Nobody says you have to agree with them, but I certainly wish that you would show some maturity here and respect what others have to say here because reading some of the responses you post here sure is tiring.

Show some repsect will ya ? These responses of yours are more suited to a bulletin board frequented by 14 and 15 years olds that have never done enything other than play games on the internet.

[BrickCop]

Spiderman,

You'd have better luck wrestling a pork chop from a pit bull than having 555 being polite or respectful. :D

[Mike Tx]

Oh my! He used the word pork in refering to something. How hateful! :D

[Spiderman]

The pitbull can keep the pork chop...I always make extra and am willing to share. Somehow I always seem to have enough.
(sniff, sniff)...is that bacon? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />